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Author Topic:   Is The World Getting Better Or Worse?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 571 of 762 (864347)
10-10-2019 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 565 by PaulK
10-10-2019 2:40 PM


My 2 cents
PaulK writes:
Like I said, you want to destroy liberty. Thanks for admitting it. Again.
Im not really taking sides here, though I do want to point out two things that come to mind:
  • Christianity was birthed in an era when all of its adherents and future proselytes were under the oppression of Rome. Christianity seems to be more aptly suited for people under persecution and stress than it does conquering nations and respectable statesmen. Religion in ancient Rome Notable quotes:
    quote:
    The Romans thought of themselves as highly religious, and attributed their success as a world power to their collective piety (pietas) in maintaining good relations with the gods.
    The Romans looked for common ground between their major gods and those of the Greeks (interpretatio graeca), adapting Greek myths and iconography for Latin literature and Roman art, as the Etruscans had.
    Roman religion was practical and contractual, based on the principle of do ut des, "I give that you might give". Religion depended on knowledge and the correct practice of prayer, ritual, and sacrifice, not on faith or dogma, although Latin literature preserves learned speculation on the nature of the divine and its relation to human affairs. Even the most skeptical among Rome's intellectual elite such as Cicero, who was an augur, saw religion as a source of social order. As the Roman Empire expanded, migrants to the capital brought their local cults, many of which became popular among Italians. Christianity was in the end the most successful of these, and in 380 became the official state religion.

    Jesus never intended to make a state religion.
    Consider this: Which of these two would Jesus most likely support?
    1) Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
    or
    Love, Joy, and Peace?
    Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.
    Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.
    Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
    ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 565 by PaulK, posted 10-10-2019 2:40 PM PaulK has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 572 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 3:57 PM Phat has replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 572 of 762 (864349)
    10-10-2019 3:57 PM
    Reply to: Message 571 by Phat
    10-10-2019 3:54 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    Phat/Thugs: you are attributing to me what PaulK said. Please be more careful. I haven't read the rest of your post because that part caught my eye.
    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 571 by Phat, posted 10-10-2019 3:54 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 576 by Phat, posted 10-10-2019 4:12 PM Faith has not replied

      
    Taq
    Member
    Posts: 10038
    Joined: 03-06-2009
    Member Rating: 5.3


    Message 573 of 762 (864350)
    10-10-2019 4:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 566 by Faith
    10-10-2019 2:51 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    Faith writes:
    Christianity does not go out to conquer and subdue anyone.
    Faith, get thee to a history class. Start at the Crusades, and move forward through time slowly. It may be a bit scary, though, because no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
    The point here is what point of view is going to be the foundation of a nation, nothing else, and unlike Islam, Christianity is tolerant of all other points of view.
    Ahem . . . SPANISH INQUISITION . . . Ahem
    And that's why Christianity should be acknowledged as the religion of the nation.
    I think we all agree that Christianity is the majority religion of the US. What is more difficult to get agreement on is that we have a secular government.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 566 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 2:51 PM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 574 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 4:03 PM Taq has replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 574 of 762 (864351)
    10-10-2019 4:03 PM
    Reply to: Message 573 by Taq
    10-10-2019 4:01 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    I never ever ever mistake Catholicism for Christianity which is what you are doing. The Inquisition killed true Christians, they are Antichrist they are not Christianity.
    You also fail to note that everything I've said supports the idea that the US is NOT a Christian nation. I think we'd do better if it were but it is not.
    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 573 by Taq, posted 10-10-2019 4:01 PM Taq has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 577 by Taq, posted 10-10-2019 4:27 PM Faith has replied
     Message 578 by Phat, posted 10-10-2019 4:28 PM Faith has replied

      
    PaulK
    Member
    Posts: 17825
    Joined: 01-10-2003
    Member Rating: 2.2


    Message 575 of 762 (864352)
    10-10-2019 4:11 PM
    Reply to: Message 562 by Faith
    10-10-2019 2:01 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    So, let us note. According to you Pinto claims that Washington wrote Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli (because someone else said so).
    Also according to you, he claims that the Article somehow promotes syncretic religion.
    Here’s the Article again:
    Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
    I think we can all see that the claim you attribute to Pinto is completely false.
    So much for the claim that he quotes them all directly.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 562 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 2:01 PM Faith has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18298
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 576 of 762 (864353)
    10-10-2019 4:12 PM
    Reply to: Message 572 by Faith
    10-10-2019 3:57 PM


    Christianity and Official State Religions
    oops..let me correct that attribution....
    Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
    ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 572 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 3:57 PM Faith has not replied

      
    Taq
    Member
    Posts: 10038
    Joined: 03-06-2009
    Member Rating: 5.3


    Message 577 of 762 (864355)
    10-10-2019 4:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 574 by Faith
    10-10-2019 4:03 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    Faith writes:
    I never ever ever mistake Catholicism for Christianity which is what you are doing.
    No True Scotsman fallacy.
    You also fail to note that everything I've said supports the idea that the US is NOT a Christian nation. I think we'd do better if it were but it is not.
    What would that even look like, and how would it differ from what we have now? Would that include a ban on gay marriage, even for non-christians? Would we throw homosexuals in jail? Would a christian nation force christian theology onto non-christians?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 574 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 4:03 PM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 579 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 4:42 PM Taq has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18298
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 578 of 762 (864356)
    10-10-2019 4:28 PM
    Reply to: Message 574 by Faith
    10-10-2019 4:03 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    I would argue that many of the Catholic population were ignorant victims of politics and propaganda. The true evil is/was the leaders at the top...both politically and religiously. Much the same exists today. The main difference is that the population at large can no longer claim ignorance.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
    ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 574 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 4:03 PM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 581 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 4:50 PM Phat has replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 579 of 762 (864357)
    10-10-2019 4:42 PM
    Reply to: Message 577 by Taq
    10-10-2019 4:27 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    Tou can think what you want but you may not attribute beliefs to me I do not hold. The Crusades and the Inquisition were not Christian actions.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 577 by Taq, posted 10-10-2019 4:27 PM Taq has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 580 by jar, posted 10-10-2019 4:48 PM Faith has replied
     Message 588 by Taq, posted 10-10-2019 5:04 PM Faith has replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 415 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 580 of 762 (864358)
    10-10-2019 4:48 PM
    Reply to: Message 579 by Faith
    10-10-2019 4:42 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    Faith writes:
    The Crusades and the Inquisition were not Christian actions.
    You may believe that but of course reality and all the evidence say that once again you are simply wrong.

    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 579 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 4:42 PM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 582 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 4:51 PM jar has replied
     Message 583 by Phat, posted 10-10-2019 4:52 PM jar has replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 581 of 762 (864359)
    10-10-2019 4:50 PM
    Reply to: Message 578 by Phat
    10-10-2019 4:28 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    It is possible of course for Catholics to be Christians, it depend on which parts of the RCC doctrine they've accepted. You can't be a Christian and pray to Mary for instance, but many Catholics honor only Christ.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 578 by Phat, posted 10-10-2019 4:28 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 584 by Phat, posted 10-10-2019 4:53 PM Faith has not replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 582 of 762 (864360)
    10-10-2019 4:51 PM
    Reply to: Message 580 by jar
    10-10-2019 4:48 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    Of course I'm wrong by your antichrist standards, so what?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 580 by jar, posted 10-10-2019 4:48 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 586 by jar, posted 10-10-2019 5:00 PM Faith has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18298
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 583 of 762 (864361)
    10-10-2019 4:52 PM
    Reply to: Message 580 by jar
    10-10-2019 4:48 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    What she means is that they were not Protestant Biblical Christian Actions. We could claim that the Protestants and Catholics of that day were ignorant and listened to their leaders, all of whom most certainly did not promote Christian actions. Were the Protestants even around during the Inquisition? Im going to have to check my dates and brush up on my History.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
    ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 580 by jar, posted 10-10-2019 4:48 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 585 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 4:54 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 587 by jar, posted 10-10-2019 5:02 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18298
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 584 of 762 (864362)
    10-10-2019 4:53 PM
    Reply to: Message 581 by Faith
    10-10-2019 4:50 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    My basic argument is that the laity of the church...the churchgoers of that day were in fact ignorant of a lot of what they were taught. I say that the leaders alone were to blame.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
    ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 581 by Faith, posted 10-10-2019 4:50 PM Faith has not replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 585 of 762 (864363)
    10-10-2019 4:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 583 by Phat
    10-10-2019 4:52 PM


    Re: Why people like JAR should be ignored.
    What she means is that they were not Protestant Biblical Christian Actions.
    \
    No, I meant what I said, they were not CHRISTIAN actions. Please do not put words in my mouth. [

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 583 by Phat, posted 10-10-2019 4:52 PM Phat has not replied

      
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