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Author Topic:   Is The World Getting Better Or Worse?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4731
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 721 of 762 (866093)
11-05-2019 2:43 PM


11,000 Alarm Bells
A new warning from 11,000 scientists around the world was released stating that “untold human suffering” is unavoidable without deep and lasting shifts in human activities that contribute to greenhouse gas emissions and other factors related to climate change.

media release

quote:
In a paper published today in BioScience, the authors from the University of Sydney, Oregon State University, University of Cape Town and Tufts University, along with more than 11,000 scientist signatories from 153 countries, declare a climate emergency, present data showing trends as benchmarks against which to measure progress and outline six areas of action to mitigate the worst effects of a human-induced climate change.

“Despite 40 years of major global negotiations, we have generally conducted business as usual and are essentially failing to address this crisis,” said Professor William Ripple, distinguished professor of ecology in the Oregon State University College of Forestry and co-lead author of the paper. “Climate change has arrived and is accelerating faster than many scientists expected.”


the paper

quote:
Scientists have a moral obligation to clearly warn humanity of any catastrophic threat and to “tell it like it is.” On the basis of this obligation and the graphical indicators presented below, we declare, with more than 11,000 scientist signatories from around the world, clearly and unequivocally that planet Earth is facing a climate emergency.

quote:
(citing various international climate agreements) Yet greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions are still rapidly rising, with increasingly damaging effects on the Earth's climate. An immense increase of scale in endeavors to conserve our biosphere is needed to avoid untold suffering due to the climate crisis (IPCC 2018).

Especially disturbing are concurrent trends in the vital signs of climatic impacts (figure 2, supplemental file S2). Three abundant atmospheric GHGs (CO2, methane, and nitrous oxide) continue to increase (see figure S1 for ominous 2019 spike in CO2), as does global surface temperature (figure 2a–2d).


The paper goes on to highlight six critical and interrelated steps the world community need to take *now* to forstal the worst of the coming disaster.

  • The world must quickly implement massive energy efficiency and conservation practices and must replace fossil fuels.
  • We need to promptly reduce the emissions of short-lived climate pollutants, including methane (figure 2b), black carbon (soot), and hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs).
  • We must protect and restore Earth's ecosystems. Phytoplankton, coral reefs, forests, savannas, grasslands, wetlands, peatlands, soils, mangroves, and sea grasses contribute greatly to sequestration of atmospheric CO2.
  • Eating mostly plant-based foods while reducing the global consumption of animal products (figure 1c–d), especially ruminant livestock (Ripple et al. 2014), can improve human health and significantly lower GHG emissions.
  • Excessive extraction of materials and overexploitation of ecosystems, driven by economic growth, must be quickly curtailed to maintain long-term sustainability of the biosphere.
  • Still increasing by roughly 80 million people per year, or more than 200,000 per day (figure 1a–b), the world population must be stabilized—and, ideally, gradually reduced—within a framework that ensures social integrity.

    quote:
    We believe that the prospects will be greatest if decision-makers and all of humanity promptly respond to this warning and declaration of a climate emergency and act to sustain life on planet Earth, our only home.

    What is so sad is that Trump will continue to insist global climate change is a hoax, Big Carbon will step up their lobbying and their political contributions and the world's political bodies will end up ignoring this warning just as they have ignored all the others.

    Here 11,000 firemen are telling us our house is on fire and We The People will do nothing.

    Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


    Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

  • Replies to this message:
     Message 722 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 5:56 PM AZPaul3 has responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 33651
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 722 of 762 (866096)
    11-05-2019 5:56 PM
    Reply to: Message 721 by AZPaul3
    11-05-2019 2:43 PM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    Why focus on Trump when the rest of the world is doing nothing and our record is way better than most? All that shows is that this is basiclally a political and not a scientific issue.

    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 721 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2019 2:43 PM AZPaul3 has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 723 by xongsmith, posted 11-05-2019 8:16 PM Faith has responded
     Message 724 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2019 10:09 PM Faith has responded

      
    xongsmith
    Member
    Posts: 1912
    From: massachusetts US
    Joined: 01-01-2009
    Member Rating: 3.5


    Message 723 of 762 (866104)
    11-05-2019 8:16 PM
    Reply to: Message 722 by Faith
    11-05-2019 5:56 PM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    Faith asks:
    Why focus on Trump when the rest of the world is doing nothing and our record is way better than most?

    False!

    The USA leads on a per capita basis. Russia is 2nd on a per capita basis. China is 4th on a per capita basis and is doing things to begin to take the lead in amelioration. (See Message 430.)

    Perhaps you missed the days when the US used lead the world in things by example?

    Why focus? Half is better than none at all.

    Edited by xongsmith, : Add link to Msg 430 data.


    "I'd rather be an American than a Trump Supporter."

    - xongsmith, 5.7d


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 722 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 5:56 PM Faith has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 726 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 11:09 PM xongsmith has not yet responded
     Message 730 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 4:51 AM xongsmith has not yet responded

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 4731
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 4.3


    (1)
    Message 724 of 762 (866108)
    11-05-2019 10:09 PM
    Reply to: Message 722 by Faith
    11-05-2019 5:56 PM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    Why focus on Trump

    Because Trump is an ass. By denying the scientific issue the ass has made it into a greater political issue.

    Further, he has caused the deaths of millions of future Americans by catering to his billionaire brethren instead of to the long term welfare of the state. He has given aid and comfort to this nation's greatest enemy, climate change and he drags the rest of the planet to its doom with us. He should be jailed for treason against the people. He should be put on a ration of bread and water for the rest of his short miserable little life then drawn and quartered and boiled in oil.

    As we should do with all Nazis, someone should punch him in the nose ... hard.

    Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


    Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 722 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 5:56 PM Faith has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 725 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 11:07 PM AZPaul3 has responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 33651
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 725 of 762 (866109)
    11-05-2019 11:07 PM
    Reply to: Message 724 by AZPaul3
    11-05-2019 10:09 PM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    Trump is a bona fide conservative in his cutting taxes on the rich, knowing it will help the country, this isn't just a Trumpism to protect his "brethren." So the standard liberal EvC opinion is that "trickle down economics" doesn't work, sorry but conservatives disagree and the huge improvement in the economy proves them right. Although the liberals will *** about that too,fortunately a lot of the country is benefiting too much from the economy to believe that, including all those brown and black people you think Trump *****.

    And quoting a bunch of nonAmericans on the climate change problem doesn't get you points either. There are plenty of ********** scientists who disagree with your 11,000. Most of us are for doing what we can to help the planet, but you aren't going to get very far with us until you stop blaming Trump and go to work on China and the other polluters. You are way too obvious.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 724 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2019 10:09 PM AZPaul3 has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 727 by Theodoric, posted 11-05-2019 11:13 PM Faith has not yet responded
     Message 728 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 3:32 AM Faith has responded
     Message 740 by Theodoric, posted 11-06-2019 11:32 AM Faith has responded
     Message 753 by Theodoric, posted 11-08-2019 2:31 PM Faith has not yet responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 33651
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 726 of 762 (866110)
    11-05-2019 11:09 PM
    Reply to: Message 723 by xongsmith
    11-05-2019 8:16 PM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    Sorry, we've done our bit, go turn your liberal guns on the rest of the world.

    Oh and we have taken the lead, so we are already the example.

    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 723 by xongsmith, posted 11-05-2019 8:16 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 6799
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 3.3


    Message 727 of 762 (866111)
    11-05-2019 11:13 PM
    Reply to: Message 725 by Faith
    11-05-2019 11:07 PM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    There are plenty of legitimate scientists who disagree with your 11,000]

    Who?
    Start listing some names.

    Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

    Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 725 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 11:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 4731
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 4.3


    (1)
    Message 728 of 762 (866114)
    11-06-2019 3:32 AM
    Reply to: Message 725 by Faith
    11-05-2019 11:07 PM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    Trump is a bona fide conservative in his cutting taxes on the rich

    Trump is a Nazi ass. He's an ass Nazi. His only trickling is trickling down his leg.

    It's a no brainer that the business climate would be getting richer when you force feed the swine all the money from the public trough. What's the latest deficit number $23 trillion? I haven't seen any of that. I haven't seen any income increase or benefits increase or any of this trickle down.

    Have you? Has anyone?

    Is the infrastructure improving? Is education advancing? Is medical care expanding?

    No.

    So where is all this public wealth that is supposed to be trickling out across the nation from sea to polluted sea? Exxon is seeing $275 billion of it. American Business profits are up almost $2 trillion a year. Not revenues, but profits.

    Where is this firehose of the nation's wealth trickling down to? None of us in the lower 98%.

    Trickle down my ass. Trickle down my Nazi billionaire ass!

    There are plenty of legitimate scientists who disagree with your 11,000.

    No there aren't. None at all. Remember you are the one who used the word "legitimate". Any come back has to be within that constraint.

    You can't do it. They don't exist on your "Burn the World" side of depravity.

    Your sources are either charlatans trying to grab their own trickle down from the stupid alt-reich gullible public or they are corporate shills lapping up some of that trickle down from their corporate masters.

    The world scientific community, in unison, is crying out a warning, and all you do is turn a deaf ear.

    We're fucked and it's all your fault!


    Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 725 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 11:07 PM Faith has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 729 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 3:48 AM AZPaul3 has responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 33651
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 729 of 762 (866115)
    11-06-2019 3:48 AM
    Reply to: Message 728 by AZPaul3
    11-06-2019 3:32 AM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    Lowest unemployment since the fifties.
    The deficit has built in entitlements that nobody is allowed to change.
    Anyone who calls Trump a Nazi is a nutcase.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 728 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 3:32 AM AZPaul3 has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 731 by jar, posted 11-06-2019 6:47 AM Faith has not yet responded
     Message 733 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 8:29 AM Faith has responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 33651
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 730 of 762 (866116)
    11-06-2019 4:51 AM
    Reply to: Message 723 by xongsmith
    11-05-2019 8:16 PM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    "Per capita" is deceptive and intended to be deceptive of course. Absolute contribution is what matters when we are talking about greenhouse gases.

    Good, let China bring down their ABSOLUTE contribution since on that basis they must be No. 1.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 723 by xongsmith, posted 11-05-2019 8:16 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 751 by caffeine, posted 11-08-2019 1:15 PM Faith has not yet responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 31611
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 731 of 762 (866118)
    11-06-2019 6:47 AM
    Reply to: Message 729 by Faith
    11-06-2019 3:48 AM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    Faith writes:

    Anyone who calls Trump a Nazi is a nutcase.

    Correct. He is Not a Nazi Polka. But he is a Fascist.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 729 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 3:48 AM Faith has not yet responded

      
    mike the wiz
    Member
    Posts: 4662
    From: u.k
    Joined: 05-24-2003


    Message 732 of 762 (866120)
    11-06-2019 8:00 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Thugpreacha
    08-19-2018 4:05 PM


    Phatsy writes:

    This deserves a thread of its own. Tangle would likely argue that the world is getting better. Faith (and I) would argue that the world is getting worse or at best still mired in the violent brutish thug phase that Percy mentions.

    I think it's fairly obvious that progressionists will say the world is getting better because of their implemented leftist rights. Obviously as Christians we feel it is getting, "worse".

    The problem is the question is subjective if you ask it of everyone, because a Christian won't think STDS and the progression into all sorts of sexual deviance is "better" but from the viewpoint of an unbelieving evolutionist leftists, it's an improvement.

    The only comment I have on the issue is that it's complicated even though the question is simple. That's because if the world is getting better, that may not even have anything to do with political views it may simply SEEM LIKE there is an "enlightenment" coming from an unbelieving philosophy.

    In reality before any "enlightenment" there were millions of people doing bad things in the name of God, things Jesus would never do, because they didn't really have the love of God.

    There may be some things both worldviews can agree on.

    I think one factor is how rights are implemented. In a society of fewer numbers (small populations of the past), governing people and making people accountable was not as possible as it is now. Laws and rules were not ubiquitous. This will naturally, "better" any system, because disorder isn't a better way to created order, than order is.

    It's a heck of a complicated topic, I can't be bothered writing any more this week. But what I will say is that there are lots of things which are not good or better like abortion, but the law and the unbelieving mind may DEEM IT, "better". But is it really "better" than something like an abortion-free, sin-free environment like an Amish village.

    (I don't claim Amish are sin free people nor that they are all genuinely in Christ, I just use them as a fairly useful analogy generally speaking. Showing specific examples of a crime that happened in such a community or some bad thing, won't therefore prove anything other than that you have committed a type of generalisation fallacy. My claim is not the strawman you want it to be, I am not saying they are perfect, but generally where a Christian philosophy is followed, and the bible's principles truly practices as they seem to be with the Amish, obviously it follows you end up with a better system.)

    Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-19-2018 4:05 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 734 by jar, posted 11-06-2019 9:12 AM mike the wiz has not yet responded

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 4731
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 4.3


    Message 733 of 762 (866122)
    11-06-2019 8:29 AM
    Reply to: Message 729 by Faith
    11-06-2019 3:48 AM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    Lowest unemployment since the fifties.

    1967-69 but we won't mention the top marginal tax rate of 70% back then and the $20 billion budget deficit back then while your Trickle Down Trump cuts billionaire tax rates to half that and racks up an $800++ billion deficit every year.

    The deficit has built in entitlements that nobody is allowed to change.

    Trump's Dump Down Deficits are created by massive fat cat tax breaks and defence spending.

    Anyone who calls Trump a Nazi is a nutcase.

    I guess that's why we get along so well. Takes one to know one.

    Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


    Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 729 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 3:48 AM Faith has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 735 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 9:47 AM AZPaul3 has responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 31611
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 734 of 762 (866123)
    11-06-2019 9:12 AM
    Reply to: Message 732 by mike the wiz
    11-06-2019 8:00 AM


    MW writes:

    Obviously as Christians we feel it is getting, "worse".

    You do not speak for "Christians"; only at most one Chapter of Club Christian; and unfortunately all of the evidence shows you are simply wrong.

    Lifespans are improving, violence is at an all time low, society in general is becoming more tolerant and the major blight on the horizon is the total disconnect from reality among fundamentalist religions.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 732 by mike the wiz, posted 11-06-2019 8:00 AM mike the wiz has not yet responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 33651
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 735 of 762 (866129)
    11-06-2019 9:47 AM
    Reply to: Message 733 by AZPaul3
    11-06-2019 8:29 AM


    Re: 11,000 Alarm Bells
    Yes I thought you'd enjoy being called by the name you call me.

    That deficit is mostly built-in entitlements no President can touch.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 733 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 8:29 AM AZPaul3 has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 736 by jar, posted 11-06-2019 11:03 AM Faith has not yet responded
     Message 737 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 11:09 AM Faith has responded

      
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