Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith

And perhaps some you would never expect. Or maybe they will all get raptured and we will get stuck here with the religious nuts! THAT would be horribleAdd By Edit:The Play would go something like this.....*Poof!!* Rapture happens one day....out of the blue. jar looks around, scratching his beard and wondering what sort of logic, reason, or reality led to the scene he now sees.
GOD: Yes, jar. Faiths God AM I. Go ahead and laugh.jar: *bursts out in laughter at the irony of it all.* Don't put me near those religious nutjobs if any of them made it! I can't imagine a worse hell..... ringo: I'm not talking to any gods today. I've done just fine without them...but I notice all my street folks are up here, and they are no longer asking for spare change! Surely this must be a place full of liberals! tangle: This whole day is preposterous! Look around! Go ahead...we have no evidence, but we surely will get some momentarily. Wheres the religious nuts anyway? They always had some fantasy about all this! dWise1: Oh for crying out loud! This entire scenario has the markings of a drug-induced hallucination! We all know that the book was written as a marketing gig!*meanwhile, Phat, jaywill, mike the wiz, ICANT, marc9000, iano and some Faith forgot are suddenly realizing that everyone left except them!* Phat: Well, there goes the Forum! I'm actually quite angry! The economy is collapsing and I deserve better! God owes me BIG TIME! jaywill: You have so much to learn. Sit down and have a Bible Study! Faith: Even though we got left behind, I'm 100% certain that scripture has an explanation...apart from that pesky Matthew 25 that jar used to always talk about! In fact, I'm convinced Satan took them because we are believers and yet here we sit!Edited by Phat, : added EvC Forum Play

Not only that, China will be fully in charge of global affairs by then, social security will be bankrupt as will the US economy, and the weapons of mass destruction will all be in the nation with the most fundamentalist populists....

Seriously, if there were any opportunity to convince the members of EvC who are unbelievers that trusting in Jesus is their necessary step, the best way to open their hearts is with humor...not scripture. They are unimpressed with scripture and usually see the hypocrisy in us anyway....so were it my motive to warn them of the "coming wrath" I would and have chosen humor as a vehicle.And my scriptural support comes from The bottom line, Faith is our character. Our daily character. Not our religion. Not the scriptures. If I am a prejudiced, authoritarian conservative with no empathy for the poor impoverished masses, no amount of scripture will gain my church any fans. (and by church I mean the called out ones in general)IF there is such an event as a RAPTURE, unbelievers will have to receive you or I or jaywill or Iano or etc etdc etc....and in so doing will receive the Spirit which we believe works in us.Quite honestly, I am a poor spokesman for selling trust in Jesus. Hopefully by being honest and funny, I can get people to at least think that I'm not such a bad guy---and by extension, according to Matthew 10:40, they will receive Jesus that way.Just so everyone knows, I am not trying to convert anyone...but I am not disrespecting the God of Christian Apologetics either. Would you not agree that God has a sense of humor?

Dont mistake Marxism for Christianity. Socialism would work if people were basically good....but your naive utopian worldview that we all should look out for the poor while not caring about having the rich join our ideals is too far left even for me...and I'm farther left than Faith is.And this whole idea of justifying your secular governmental beliefs with what Jesus says...whom you don't believe is more than a character in a book, by the way....irritates me because of several reasons. (jar too)

You don't believe that humans need God...that we have the responsibility to fix/change the world and can, in fact, do it. I refuse to slog in the trenches forever with the poor impoverished masses simply for some secular utopian ideal which is more unrealistic than what the apologists claim.

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It is disingenuous to use the words of Jesus as fodder for your secular utopian idealism when reality suggests that it is evil in this world and we are not all called to give up all that we have for a said ideal. In other words, Jesus message won't work (for me) without there being the promise of God/ Jesus to help us once we have suffered. I can not very well give according to my ability if my ability is squashed. And I do not consider some socialist utopian ideal to be noble in and of itself if the 2% get to hard their stash while thus making me suffer to relieve myself of mine. Perhaps I wouldn't make the cut in a rapture even if it happened...I'll admit I don't let go of my rights and my earned fruits of my labor willingly and easily....

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Your message also carries no weight due to this:

The rich man asked what he had to do to be saved. Jesus told him to sell what he had and give to the poor. There is no indication that anything else would save him.

And yet your message is delivered by a messenger who not only does not believe in salvation but does not believe in Jesus. Secular Humanism is a false counterfeit of religion.

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Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

so why not leave the middle class alone? Im by no means a wealthy man. I try and do my best for myself and others..giving away everything would only force society to take care of me, and society is shaky and weak financially right now.Why not hold the wealthy accountable to help the masses? You claimed before that you dont care what the wealthy do with their money...which puzzles me as you quote scripture to encourage a man of modest means, such as myself to give more and do more. some reasons that we disagree:

You evidently believe in secular humanism...and have stated before that you are quite far to the left. Unlike Faith, this does not bother me...I fear conservatives as much as liberals if I fear anyone. The only reason we disagree here is that you insist that people of modest means pay the bill according to their ability. I say the rich should get the bill...while faith would probably say that they earned the right to keep their money. In which case, why not I? I cant retire on prayers and handouts ya know...

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Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

You can't know what will happen tomorrow. No one can. We can have a high degree of certainty based on scientific law...that the sun will rise tomorrow, for instance. we can even speculate that earth will exist in 200 years. Science gives us a limited degree of certainty but is not infallible.

Reality shows me that whether or not I advocate a capitalist system, it is likely to remain the status quo until it fails to6tally. Socialism scares me, because unscrupulous people exist regardless of the system favored. The humanist philosophy that people can learn to be good has no real proof, so far.

OK I think I understand the position.

This was more directed at ringo. He claims that he has never made as much in his life as I have, yet he insists I lower my lifestyle for the benefit of the secular brethren.You bring up that Jesus would likely approve. I can't argue with you guys about this point.It pisses me off though. Where is my liferaft?You have said that you have money, Tangle. Would you want to give it all up?Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

mandatory socialism is the religion of the antichrist

And mandatory taxation is no substitute. Don't you get that we don't trust collective humanity to dictate our giving?You can crow all you want about socialist principles being what Jesus taught, but yet you give no importance to the messenger...while I insist that I must hear from Him directly and won't accept some form of government as a substitute.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

OK so I had to look into this book you mentioned:

quote:

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Do your friends say they are "spiritual, but not religious"? Are they seized by utopian hopes that fire their imagination and drive their personal behaviour, business and politics? Such Oneist utopian visions can be found in the Green Movement, in radical sexual agendas, in a total acceptance of Darwinian Evolution, and in Eastern mystical movements, among others. The ethic of all Oneist utopias depends on the elimination of the first, all-defining statement of the Christian Creed: "I believe in God the Father, Maker of heaven and earth." Since all of these movements insist that human structures and authorities take the qualities that only God himself possesses, they are doomed to become dystopias.

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In this collection of lectures given at the 2013 truthXchange Think Tank, the authors analyze a variety of current utopian visions that inspire false hopes in today's culture, as well as presenting the true hopes God offers humanity. By showing the emptiness of human utopias and the glorious truth that only God's final "eu-topia" offers, these articles will equip Christians to understand false hopes and to live out the truth of the sure hope Christ offers.
Book Contents:

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"The Oneist Utopia: Always a Dystopian Nightmare" - Joe Boot.
"The Ecological Utopia: 'The Earth Charter' and Global Oneist Power" - Dr. Cal Beisner
"The Geo-Political Utopia: Oneism, The United Nations and World Government" - Janet Mefferd
"Darwinian Evolution: A Significant Inspiration for Contemporary Oneist Utopianism?" - Dr. John West
"A Twoist Model for Helping Your Utopian Neighbours" - Dr. Thaddeus Williams
"The Coming Pagan Utopia" - Dr. Peter Jones
"God's Final Eu-topia" - Dr. Dennis Johnson

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Perhaps I myself am one of the ones duped by the antichrist since I consider myself spiritual but not religious.As pertains to EvC, I looked up the Darwinian Evolution speaker (to find something he said that was free rather than buying the darn book)
and found this:

Dr.Peter Jones, the author of that book you mentioned earlier which was a compilation of various authors challenges many of my beliefs. One of us or the other is wrong.
Is Mindfulness Christian? whereupon he asserts that

quote:

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In raising this question of Mindfulness, we must not be ignorant of what has transpired in Western history since the 1960sto which not enough mindful attention is paid. Many Westerners have turned to Eastern meditation, including, in particular, yoga, which is a subtle but clear introduction to Hindu spirituality. So in the West, yoga (Hinduism) gives us healthy bodies; and Mindfulness (Buddhism) gives us sound minds. But what is going on? Are we, in the church, like Westerners in general, being captured by alien spiritual influences? Philip Goldberg says yes. In his important book, American Veda: How Indian Spirituality Changed the West (NY: Harmony Books, 2010), in light of the great success of yoga and Mindfulness, he concludes that Americans (and we can include the West in general) have been deeply brainwashed. In Canada, Mindfulness or MindUP, is imposed upon children in state schools as normative practice, without parental permission. Doubtless without realizing it, the West has bought into the Indian worldview philosophy of Advaita, which means not two (non-duality or Oneism). This notion of existence is assumed to be the truth, so all distinctions are erased and oneness rules. Goldberg, who is convinced this is a good thing, is surely onto something, since we are seeing a constant and determined eradication of the binary, or twoness, especially in the area of sexuality and spirituality. Our world is seduced by the utopian idealism of oneness or unity, both politically and religiously.

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Behind these Eastern spiritual techniques is a Oneist worldview in conflict with biblical spirituality, which I call Twoism. Twoism is the biblical insistence on the truth of distinctionsgood and evil, true and false, male and female, God and creation. The Eastern worldview claims that by going within we find our inner divinity, so our problem is not sin but ignorance. We are ignorant of the god within, the god we actually all possess. God is not separate from us, He is within us. We are god. So this Eastern worldview advocates spiritual meditation and altered forms of consciousness to focus on the self, precisely to gain gnosis, knowledge of the god within. There is no distinction from God. We are god. We must ask whether these methods, yoga and Mindfulness, born in Eastern Oneism, can be scrubbed of their religious content.

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You are rigid and authoritarian in your thinking whereas I am more balanced and mindful. According to Dr.Jones, I am the one being duped. (read the article)

I did read your blog and understand your belief process. I cant say that you are wrong, though I cant think exactly how you do either. Even though jar and I disagree on most philosophy and theology, he has taught me to be unafraid to question my beliefs---though to some this surely must make me appear weak and indecisive. Contrary to what you may think, I have studied a lot of the Bible and likely understand it as well as you do...but where we differ is that I allow myself to question what I once would never question. Unlike jar, I cannot simply "throw God away" as if denouncing my profession when I first became Born Again. Many of my Christian brethren also discourage me from questioning the precepts of our Faith and believe that Satan is waging war with me and through me. So I too really dont know how to discuss anything...we are two different people.I respect free speech, however...and so EvC continues with our neverending arguments, beliefs, persuasions, and world views.

Yes. I believe that salvation is by faith first and that works follow naturally. That being said, I question the concept of original sin in general, though observation of human behavior historically and currently seems to verify its reality. One thing that I question, however, is why God chose to do things the way He allegedly has, (according to dogma). I definitely believe that the Bible itself, though inspired, is far from perfect in describing current reality fully. I may eventually end up believing otherwise...I am always open to further information. Yes. I have entertained questions about the exclusiveness of such a belief, but I fervently believe that IF God accepts me based on surrender and acknowledgement alone, I'm all in! Unlike you, however, I occasionally side with some of the counter-arguments here at EvC that most Christians I know wouldn't ever entertain. Thats simply my character...I believe that if God knows me and accepts me He is strong enough to keep me from slipping away...and allows me to question, doubt, and examine the beliefs and ideologies of others.I believe in Spiritual War. I see it here at EvC all of the time.
Like when jar gets angry and calls *bullshit* and accuses his opponents of palming some pea and misdirecting a topic, I see him as angry that they wont fall in line and follow his ideology based as he claims simply on plain reading.I dont just consider the content of what is written. I consider the motives behind the author. As an example, what possible good would it or has it ever done to teach people that the allegorical snake told the truth and that the god character lied? ...see...to me this only leads them to the belief that all religion is simply written and interpreted by man.I also saw jaywill lose his composure for a moment and lash out at his opponents, even though he normally makes such sound theological posts. Surely somewhere, demons are laughing at their success at needling believers and getting them to lose their composure.As to why I believe? Thats a deeper question....one that I would have to think deeply about. I trust God---dont get me wrong---I talk with Him a lot.