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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 63 of 1677 (839219)
09-05-2018 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Thugpreacha
09-03-2018 4:41 PM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
Phat writes:

I insist that I must hear from Him directly and won't accept some form of government as a substitute.

quote:
As the flood waters rose to toward the first floor a rescue vehicle offered to take the man to safety, but he declined, saying God would take care of him. As the flood waters rose toward the second floor men in a row boat offered to take the man to safety, but he declined, saying God would take care of him. As the flood waters rose past the second floor and forced the man to his roof a helicopter offered to take the man to safety, but he declined, saying God would take care of him. Later in heaven God saw the man and exclaimed in surprise, "What happened? I sent a rescue vehicle, a row boat and a helicopter."

We can never know the manner of God's answers.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-03-2018 4:41 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by caffeine, posted 09-05-2018 2:00 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 120 of 1677 (839552)
09-10-2018 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Faith
09-10-2018 6:44 AM


Faith writes:

Still ten hours left of September 10 in Israel.

In four hours when you realize you're still here, that everyone's still here, will you:

  • Go silent on EvC and your blog so that everyone thinks you've been raptured.
  • Assert that the rapture happened but allege a massive coverup.
  • Explain that the calculations were off and that the rapture will occur at some future date.

--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 6:44 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2018 12:59 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 122 by caffeine, posted 09-10-2018 1:02 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 123 by ringo, posted 09-10-2018 1:08 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 1:54 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 125 of 1677 (839573)
09-10-2018 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
09-10-2018 1:54 PM


As the Rapture countdown continues toward midnight Israel time (plus or minus a day, week, century or millennium) I'm sure we're all wondering who will stay and who will go. We should keep in mind that there's nothing in the basic evangelical catechism about the kind of person you've been in this world - only belief matters.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 1:54 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2018 4:10 PM Percy has responded
 Message 129 by Coragyps, posted 09-10-2018 5:15 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 130 of 1677 (839585)
09-10-2018 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Tangle
09-10-2018 4:10 PM


Tangle writes:

All those trillions of people who just got born in the wrong place. Seems a tad random.

Poor Asia - little relief from their overpopulation problem.

Tennessee has the highest percentage of white evangelicals, 47%. That state's population will just be devastated.

And poor Trump - the evangelical part of his base will just disappear. Couldn't the Rapture have waited until after the midterms?

And the real estate market - how will it handle all those many buildings with high towers on the front soon to be available?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2018 4:10 PM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 5:37 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 137 of 1677 (839596)
09-10-2018 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Faith
09-10-2018 5:37 PM


Faith writes:

So there are quite a few Christians in Asia.

Christians represent about 6% of the Asian population, but more than half are some branch of Catholicism, and how many of the remainder do you think are evangelicals according to your standards?

So I repeat, "Little relief from their overpopulation problem."

If there really were any such thing as the Rapture it would be based upon the type of person you were on Earth, not on what you believed.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 5:37 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 7:53 PM Percy has responded
 Message 139 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 7:59 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 140 of 1677 (839601)
09-10-2018 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
09-10-2018 7:53 PM


Faith writes:

Percy writes:

If there really were any such thing as the Rapture it would be based upon the type of person you were on Earth, not on what you believed.

It would be based on salvation by faith in Christ.

Perhaps I should have said that if there really were a God of the Bible and if there really were such a thing as the Rapture, then who ascends to heaven would depend upon the type of person they were on Earth, not on what they believed.

So to you I wouldn't qualify because what, I've called you all idiots at times?

I didn't express an opinion, but since you raised the topic, ask yourself what are the qualities of a good person, and then ask yourself how well you've displayed those qualities, not here particularly, but throughout your life. Decide for yourself whether you deserve rapture. Not that it matters. As I understand it, you don't get a say.

Salvation is forgiveness of sins by the blood of Christ, that's how a person is saved, by His grace alone and nothing we could possibly do to merit it.

Goodness is what should be rewarded, not believing the "right" things.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 7:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 9:00 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 145 of 1677 (839612)
09-11-2018 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Faith
09-10-2018 9:00 PM


Faith writes:

Goodness is what should be rewarded, not believing the "right" things.

Nobody has any goodness except God Himself...

Mark 10:18 writes:

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

And yet Jesus is God, eternal and already in existence before he was born. God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, so of course Jesus as part of this Trinity is good, so this passage from Mark is plainly in error.

...that's why we need to be saved.

It is good people who should be saved, not people who have adopted certain "correct" beliefs.

I do suspect, however, that your idea of goodness is not God's idea of goodness.

I know what goodness is here on Earth where it counts, and goodness is not believing the "right" things.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 9:00 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 1:15 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 159 of 1677 (839632)
09-11-2018 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Faith
09-11-2018 1:15 PM


Faith writes:

This idea that it is "good people" who should be saved is the NONChristian idea that the whole world has that Christ came to CORRECT.

Since I'm not a Christian I most certainly have my own ideas about the Bible, including that Jesus wasn't a real person, that heaven is not a real place, that the rapture is never going to happen, and that goodness is far more deserving of reward than believing the "right" things.

There ARE no "good people." That is point number one. Nobody can live up to God's standards. And the idea that we can be saved by being good is what is called "works-righteousness," which is specifically condemned in the New Testament. This is what Martin Luther and the other Reformers rediscovered after it had been buried in the superstitions of the Roman Church for centuries. God saves us, and He saves sinners. Jesus said He came not to save the righteous but sinners. Repentant sinners of course, sinners who own their sin and repent of it.

Sure, you have things you believe, and you believe that it is only necessary to believe them to get into heaven, and further that the beliefs themselves are transformative making what most people would interpret as shameful behavior into good behavior.

It's unfortunately very common for people to say when asked if they expect to go to heaven that they think they are good people so they do expect to go to heaven, but this is exactly wrong. "For you have been saved by grace, not works, lest any man should boast."

I understand that you believe this.

But you have a false parody of being saved by faith anyway. Faith is not just empty belief, it is being changed, born again, to follow Christ.

From what can be observed here, the Christ you're following doesn't seem much interested in goodness, but more in xenophobia, homophobia, suffering, inequality and intolerance. Are you sure you have an accurate read on how Christ wants you to conduct your life?

I've been meaning to put in a plug for The Good Place. Season 3 starts September 27th on NBC. Seasons 1 and 2 are on Netflix. Plot summary of Season 1 Episode 1: a cruel and vindictive person is accidentally sent to heaven.

AbE: Stars Ted Danson and Kristen Bell.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : AbE.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 1:15 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 6:20 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 178 of 1677 (839654)
09-12-2018 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Faith
09-11-2018 7:11 PM


Re: The Coming Pagan Utopia
Faith writes:

(BE: Speaking of books, I do read more these days because I had cataract surgery a few weeks ago, which has improved my close-up vision. The macular degeneration continues to interfere but with the cataracts gone images are much sharper in the near range even if the MD distorts them.)

So glad to hear this - am very happy for you.

—Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 7:11 PM Faith has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 184 of 1677 (839693)
09-13-2018 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
09-11-2018 6:20 PM


Faith writes:

From what can be observed here, the Christ you're following doesn't seem much interested in goodness, but more in xenophobia, homophobia, suffering, inequality and intolerance. Are you sure you have an accurate read on how Christ wants you to conduct your life?

Perfect litany of Political Correctness.

It's no surprise that you equate goodness with political correctness.

You misrepresent everything I've said of course.

I don't think so. Isn't it true that you're against immigration, against LGBT rights, against affordable health care for everyone, against racial equality, and against anyone different from yourself?

Pretty clear though that the end times are upon us when people talk like this.

And yet as Tangle has pointed out and as is bloody obvious to everyone since everyone including you is still here, your end times prediction was dead wrong. Throughout history all end times predictions have been dead wrong. That's because your religious beliefs are dead wrong.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 6:20 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Faith, posted 09-13-2018 1:07 PM Percy has responded
 Message 186 by Faith, posted 09-13-2018 1:15 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 194 of 1677 (839706)
09-13-2018 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Faith
09-13-2018 1:07 PM


Faith writes:

You misrepresent everything I've said of course.

I don't think so. Isn't it true that you're against immigration, against LGBT rights, against affordable health care for everyone, against racial equality, and against anyone different from yourself?

No. Perfect misrepresentation, perfect political correctness. Pack of pernicious PC lies.

So I was wrong? You're actually for immigration, for LGBT rights, for affordable health care for everyone, for racial equality, and for diversity? However did I pick up such misimpressions?

I'm against illegal uncontrolled immigration,...

Who isn't. So immigration of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, pagans, atheists and LGBT's is fine by you?

...I'm against gay marriage not against general rights for gays,...

I said LGBT, but speaking of gays, how is denying wedding cakes and marriage to gays not denying them a right? How is denying transgender bathroom rights not denying them a right? How is banning transgender people from the military not denying them a right?

...I'm absolutely in favor of racial equality,...

So you condemn the white nationalist/supremicist march in Charlottesville last year, and you condemn Trump's failure to condemn it?

...and I'm against Obamacare...

So you're for affordable health care, but you're against Obamacare which provides affordable healthcare.

...because of what I've been told about its costs and its policies.

You were told wrong. Obamacare was carefully designed to make sure the insurance pool was not overwhelmed by unhealthy people by requiring everyone to have healthcare, including a penalty for not having healthcare. You don't actually want affordable healthcare - you just want to make excuses for why it isn't possible. Healthcare can be made affordable - the Trump tax cut is what we actually can't afford.

You've simply ignored everything I've laboriously argued on all these subjects, of course, because that's what Political Correctness does.

I think I understand you pretty well, including your tendency to lash out at people who understand you pretty well.

Oh the end times are definitely upon us whether the Rapture timing is off or not. The Rapture will come eventually, but the signs of the end times have been proliferating for decades, actually speeding up in recent years. Those signs point mostly to the condition of the world that will prevail after the Rapture, totalitarian tyranny on a global scale, then God's Wrath.

It's interesting that being dead wrong only deepens your conviction that you're right. Most people consider incorrect predictions as evidence that something is wrong with the underlying premises, but for you the opposite is true.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Faith, posted 09-13-2018 1:07 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 09-14-2018 2:21 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 214 of 1677 (839754)
09-14-2018 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Faith
09-14-2018 2:21 AM


Let's not forget where this sub-discussion started. You thought you had evidence that the rapture was imminent, and that you would be one of the chosen because you believed all the right things. But you were wrong. The rapture wasn't imminent (which should have caused you to examine your beliefs but didn't), and it is goodness that should be rewarded, not belief.

In response you have argued that you never insisted your prediction was correct, which raises the question why make it, and that you have too exhibited enough goodness to be rewarded with salvation, despite not believing that that makes any difference.

Faith writes:

So I was wrong? You're actually for immigration, for LGBT rights, for affordable health care for everyone, for racial equality, and for diversity? However did I pick up such misimpressions?

Because you've bought into Political correctness.

Political correctness is just your grabbag label for anything you don't like. It's lost any meaning it ever had in your case. There are standards of decency that measure our humanity, compassion and empathy. Let's examine your arguments that you've exhibited human decency.

Yes I'm for reasonable standards of legal immigration that enhance rather than destroy our western civilization. If people want to come here and assimilate, and love our Constitution and our culture, they ought to be welcome.

You mean you only want immigrants who are interested in a path to citizenship and have an uncritical (blind, even) perception of our country. There are over twelve million green card holders in the US, and less than half ever become citizens. Of the rest probably some assimilate and some don't, some learn English and some don't, some only want to work here, some only want to live here. The US offers the naturalization test to people over 50 in foreign languages. For non-citizens my state offers the written driver's test in English, Spanish and French. California offers the drivers test in over thirty languages. Can I assume immigrants who don't speak English and/or who have no interest in assimilating don't fit your criteria, and that you want them out of the country?

I'm for LGBT rights that don't force the rest of us to treat their unnatural behaviors as normal.

The simple fact that you judge LGBT sexual orientation unnatural and sufficient grounds for denying them rights says it all.

It's a pretty safe bet that LGBT people are only doing what comes naturally to them, just as the rest of us have done what comes naturally to us. Almost all people are sexual creatures, and as they reach puberty they become attracted sexually to one sex or another, or even both. Which sex(es) they're attracted to isn't something anyone makes a conscious decision about - it just happens.

They should be protected from harm, but not allowed to force their way of life on the rest of us.

You're just weasel-wording your actual attitude, which is that it is okay to deny LGBT people rights everyone else has.

A big problem with "affordable health care" is that it isn't affordable.

Really? And how much did your taxes rise after the ACA took effect? How much did the deficit increase due to the ACA? (The answer is not at all.)

This is from What tax changes did the Affordable Care Act make?

quote:
The Affordable Care Act (ACA) made several changes to the tax code intended to increase health insurance coverage, reduce health care costs, and finance health care reform. On net these taxes and credits are projected to reduce the deficit by $46 billion in 2020. Taken together, they increase the average tax burden significantly for families in the top one percent of the income distribution but benefit families in the bottom income quintiles by providing new credits that on average exceed new taxes for those families. Combined with the ACA’s Medicaid expansion, the coverage-related taxes are projected to reduce the number of uninsured by 23 million in 2020.

The worst part of the ACA was the penalty for not having health insurance. 6.7 million people paid the penalty in 2015. If the average penalty was $2000 (an overestimate) then the total in penalties paid to the government was about $13 billion, a drop in the bucket for the deficit. But Congress couldn't reach agreement about having the government absorb this cost, and so the cost was passed on to the taxpayer in the form of penalties.

Trump has since rescinded the penalty, which is good, but he failed to put in place any compensatory policy, which is bad because it throws the insurance pool into a deficit forcing premiums to rise. It also unbalances the pool of people toward those less healthy, increasing medical costs and putting more upward pressure on premiums. In other words, as originally constructed the ACA paid for itself. Trump's ongoing piece-by-piece dismantling is making it less and less viable.

I'm absolutely unequivocally for racial equality. Sheesh.

I think "diversity" is just a PC term that obscures the Leftist Agenda of destroying Christian culture.

How can you be for racial equality but against diversity? How can you claim you believe the races are equal if you also believe that allowing non-white non-Christians into your community is a threat to your culture because it would cause blacks, Asians, Arabs, American Indians, etc., to become your neighbors, and also cause a host of Shinto, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Jewish and charismatic temples or churches to appear in town. My God, they might even attend the annual town picnic!

I'm against illegal uncontrolled immigration,...

Who isn't. So immigration of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, pagans, atheists and LGBT's is fine by you?

I'm for accepting all who appreciate our western values and are willing to assimilate and adopt them, which is what happened with earlier generations of immigrants.

Degree of assimilation of past immigrant waves varied for that first generation, ranging from complete to none at all. Assimilation mostly occurred with the children of that first generation. The DACA children are an excellent example, brought to this country while young and now completely assimilated.

But assimilated does not mean indoctrinated. Assimilation doesn't mean they begin sitting down to meals of meatloaf and mashed potatoes, play softball, and watch the NFL on Sundays. It doesn't mean they view American mores and government uncritically, any more than natural Americans do.

But that very concept is denied in our postmodern leftist world. It is pernicious naivete to think that all cultures are equal and especially all ideologies, since there are totalitarian ideologies such as Islam that seek to overthrow every religious and political system but Islam.

Now you're just emphasizing what you said earlier, that you're against diversity, and especially against any diversity that includes Islam.

...I'm against gay marriage not against general rights for gays,...

I said LGBT, but speaking of gays, how is denying wedding cakes and marriage to gays not denying them a right? How is denying transgender bathroom rights not denying them a right? How is banning transgender people from the military not denying them a right?

We obey God who defines marriage. That's the way it is.

Freedom of religion means the freedom to practice your religion so long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others. It doesn't give you the right to discriminate.

Marriage is for a man and a woman and you can fine us out of business or put us in prison or execute us at dawn but those of us who recognize this basic Biblical worldview aren't backing down. We will serve gays ANYTHING except something that validates this travesty of the ordinance of marriage. Perhaps you should hope for the Rapture to come very soon so our objections won't be such a thorn in the side of those who aspire to the Coming Pagan World Order.

Yes, we understand you believe your religion gives you the right to discriminate. Would a Christian rent an apartment to a gay couple? See, for example, Couple seeking a basement apartment refused for being gay.

Sometimes one group's rights have to give way to another's.

Discrimination against gays is illegal in a good portion of the secular world. When Christians are active in the secular world then they must follow secular laws, such as by providing equal service to all customers without regard to sex, creed, color or (in many jurisdictions) sexual orientation.

How convenient for you that you've found a religion that hates all the same things you hate anyway.

I'm absolutely in favor of racial equality,...

So you condemn the white nationalist/supremacist march in Charlottesville last year, and you condemn Trump's failure to condemn it?

I would if I were absolutely convinced that is the right understanding of it,...

"Right understanding of it"? What ambiguity is there for you? There is no doubt (there's video) that neo-Nazis, white nationalists and white supremacists marched down the streets of Charlottesville chanting slogans against blacks and Jews. You can't condemn that? You can't condemn Trump for not condemning that?

...but given our PC environment of slinging around the PC epithets such as "racist" I'm simply not sure what really happened there and who is to blame.

Why do you need to find blame for a few minor altercations (I assume you're as appalled as everyone else by white supremacist James Fields' murder by automobile of Heather Heyer) before you condemn neo-Nazis, white nationalists and white supremacists? If Antifa had beat each and every one of them to a pulp, does that make their views any more tolerable?

However, I'm certainly opposed to white supremacy.

And neo-Nazism and white nationalism? You know, they want a lot of the same things you do, like denying rights to LGBT folks and Muslims.

So let's summarize. You think you've exhibited sufficient goodness to be considered among the saved because:

  • You're for letting LGBT have some rights but not all.
  • You're against the ACA because it isn't affordable, even though it is, and you want to take away the health insurance that has been made available to millions who did not have it before.
  • You're against allowing people different from you into the country because diversity is just a leftist plot to destroy Christian culture.
  • You're against allowing current immigrants not interested in assimilation to remain in the country.
  • You won't condemn the neo-Nazis, white supremacists and white nationalists who marched against blacks and Jews in Charlottesville last year.

Still think you're one of the chosen? Not that, as I understand it, you have any say. It's just interesting that you possess such a conceit.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 09-14-2018 2:21 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Faith, posted 09-16-2018 9:17 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 217 of 1677 (839800)
09-16-2018 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by Faith
09-16-2018 9:17 AM


Faith writes:

I had a lot of personal impressions that made me think the Rapture could be very close, a pretty loose form of evidence, if that term applies.

In terms of making predictions you had no evidence at all. Here are some valid predictions no one would ever dispute: If you let go of a brick it will fall. If you dive into the water you'll get wet. If you light a match and touch it to paper it will burn.

But "I heard a certain Bible verse on the radio," and similar stuff etc. etc., is not evidence the rapture is imminent. There has never been a rapture, so no one knows the signs of an approaching rapture. There is not even any evidence that there's any such thing as a rapture. Christians have been wrong in predicting the end times repeatedly through the centuries, see List of dates predicted for apocalyptic events at Wikipedia. There are 153 incorrect predictions in the list. 154 if I add yours.

Believe it or not, a main reason I wanted to post about the Rapture is that I want those who would be left behind not to be in total confusion about what happened, but have enough of an idea to be able to get through the Tribulation period with some foreknowledge. I would hope that for whenever the Rapture comes.

Please also warn us of alien invasions, the zombie apocalypse and the sun going nova.

I've answered a lot of the rest of what you say in that post, and don't think it would accomplish much to do it again.

I rebutted your answers. You think just believing the "right" thing qualifies you for salvation, but it is goodness that should be rewarded. Given the failure of your beliefs regarding your rapture prediction, how much faith should you place in your beliefs about who gets saved? If your beliefs led you astray about when, they could also be leading you astray about who.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Faith, posted 09-16-2018 9:17 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-16-2018 4:06 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 230 of 1677 (839831)
09-16-2018 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Thugpreacha
09-16-2018 4:06 PM


Re: The First Bus never came. Shall we still wait?
Phat writes:

Percy,to Faith writes:

You think just believing the "right" thing qualifies you for salvation, but it is goodness that should be rewarded.

One would think that they go hand in hand.

Do you mean that if you believe the "right" thing then you'll be blessed with goodness? The evidence we have here at EvC strongly suggests that isn't true.

If you mean any other of the other possibilities (a. Only if you believe the "right" thing will you be blessed with goodness; b. If you're blessed with goodness then you will believe the "right" thing; c. Only if you're blessed with goodness will you believe the "right" thing) then all the people of goodness of other religions strongly suggests these aren't true, either.

I think you've treated your religion with much greater kindness and charity than it's treated you - that you believe anyway seems a true act of faith.

Even though you are not a believer, surely you wouldn't reject a messiah if one showed up to do His thing while you were busy working....unless you wanted no such alien interaction without more evidence.

Why should this hypothetical be taken more seriously than, "How would you react if you were sent back to the time of the dinosaurs," or "What if you suddenly found you had all the powers of Superman," or "What if the Matrix turned out to be real"?

What *would* you do if you found yourself being whisked away from your celestial home?

Huh? Whisked away from my celestial home? I'll assume you meant "to" instead of "from".

Would it scare you? Anger you? Confuse you? One would think that the travelers would get briefed on what to expect.

I have the same reaction to this hypothetical.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-16-2018 4:06 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 09-16-2018 10:17 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18877
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 248 of 1677 (839863)
09-17-2018 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Faith
09-16-2018 4:46 PM


Re: The First Bus never came. Shall we still wait?
Faith writes:

Yes, faith and works go hand in hand. My "works" here I do as a Christian but Percy thinks they are bad, not good.

Everyone thinks your behavior here is bad. It isn't like it is anything subtle. You're the poster child for how your form of Christianity fosters intolerance, hate, abuse, anger, animosity, indignation, rage, intemperance, petulance, vengefulness, etc.

Phat to Percy writes:

What *would* you do if you found yourself being whisked away from your celestial home? Would it scare you? Anger you? Confuse you? One would think that the travelers would get briefed on what to expect.

As I understand it, nobody is going to be "whisked away" who isn't prepared for it, watching and waiting for it.

Why should any of that matter? The good should be whisked away to heaven, not those who believe the "right" thing. Those intent on doing good by their fellow man should be rewarded, not those who threaten eternal damnation on those who don't believe the "right" things.

The right question for Percy is what would he do if all the Christians he knows (I assume he knows some) suddenly disappeared. Would he consider what has been said about the rapture and the following tribulation and the soon return of Christ to earth, or would he prefer to find some rationalization based on his belief that those who believe as I do are the wicked ones who shouldn't be saved?

The question you (and Phat) are really asking is how would I react if presented with introvertible evidence of the truth of Christian belief. I would examine it, process it, and try to incorporate it compatibly into the fabric of evidence I already know.

Moving on to your Message 220...

ABE: By the way, of course Percy has mischaracterized my "evidence" but there are so many things I say that get mischaracterized I'm just going to let the Lord sort it all out in the end.

This is an example of something that makes you not a good person. You have accused me of mischaracterizing your evidence when all I actually did was say enough to make clear I was referring to it ("'I heard a certain Bible verse on the radio,' and similar stuff etc. etc., is not evidence the rapture is imminent.").

Instead of letting error guide you in adjusting your beliefs (the feedback loop of the scientific method), you're just doubling down on the beliefs that led you to error in the first place.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Faith, posted 09-16-2018 4:46 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Faith, posted 09-17-2018 4:17 PM Percy has responded

    
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