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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1362 of 1677 (846991)
01-14-2019 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1361 by Percy
01-14-2019 5:36 PM


My only quibble is that there is evidence for dark matter. There is just no direct evidence.Dark energy though has at this time no evidence for its existence.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/...ses/2015/02/150209113046.htm


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1361 by Percy, posted 01-14-2019 5:36 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1364 by Percy, posted 01-14-2019 6:32 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 1577 of 1677 (847465)
01-23-2019 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1575 by Granny Magda
01-22-2019 4:46 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
I highly suggest the book Paranormality: Why We Believe the Impossible. It was published in the US with the subtitle Why We See What Isn't There. The author is Professor Richard Wiseman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormality_(book)

It is a very readable look at the science behind the idea of the paranormal. It is not hard science but discusses the science very well. More books that delve into how the brain creates its own reality are any by Oliver Sacks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Sacks

I think anyone actually reading these books with an open mind and actual appreciation of science, will actually rethink their belief in the supernatural or paranormal. Then again people that have such beliefs tend to have a need for those beliefs.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1575 by Granny Magda, posted 01-22-2019 4:46 PM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1582 by Granny Magda, posted 01-23-2019 2:18 PM Theodoric has not yet responded
 Message 1588 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-23-2019 3:12 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1602 of 1677 (847662)
01-24-2019 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1601 by Faith
01-24-2019 9:32 PM


Re: Demons and delusions
Lol. Whatever.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1601 by Faith, posted 01-24-2019 9:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1633 of 1677 (847822)
01-27-2019 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1623 by GDR
01-26-2019 9:44 PM


Re: Research Delusions
The Gospels were clearly meant to be understood as historical.

So all texts written as historical, whether religious or not, should be given equal weight?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1623 by GDR, posted 01-26-2019 9:44 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1635 by GDR, posted 01-27-2019 8:57 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1636 of 1677 (847829)
01-27-2019 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1635 by GDR
01-27-2019 8:57 PM


Re: Research Delusions
Any book that is written to represent historical truths can be considered to be evidence.

History does not deal in truths, it deal in facts. What is a historical truth?

Books on the rise and fall of the Roman empire are interesting and might even give us food for thought for our lives today, they don't have the impact of the Quran or the Bible.

So books that deal with and present historical facts that can be corroborated are not as important books that claim to present history, but can be shown to have no corroborating evidence?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1635 by GDR, posted 01-27-2019 8:57 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1637 by GDR, posted 01-27-2019 10:18 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 1645 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2019 7:12 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1638 of 1677 (847832)
01-27-2019 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1631 by Thugpreacha
01-27-2019 2:02 PM


Re: Research Delusions
The fact is there is no independent corroborating historical evidence of the existence of a Jesus Christ outside of the bible. All future mentions of this character are tied the gospels. Nowhere else in the historical record does this person exist. The character is as much a myth as Prester John and William Tell.
Even Paul does not seem to have known anything about a historical Jesus. Then again why would he know anything about the gospels as his writings(or maybe more accurately, the writings attributed to him) were written decades before the gospels.
If a document is to be accepted as legitimate historically, then the provenance of the document must be verified. Not only can the provenance of the gospels not be verified, there is no evidence of who even authored them. The conflicts and inconsistencies between them show that nothing in them can be relied on as being factual.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1631 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-27-2019 2:02 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1651 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-31-2019 9:45 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1639 of 1677 (847833)
01-27-2019 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1637 by GDR
01-27-2019 10:18 PM


Re: Research Delusions
The first part of your response does not even address anything I said.
What are historical "truths"?

Of course different sides will have different I interpretations, but these different versions will in fact corroborate the basic underlying facts. Nothing corroborates your bible.

You are twisting the meaning of what I said

My response is a plain reading of what you stated. If you feel it is twisted maybe you should revisit what you wrote.

My point is simply that religious texts have a greater effect for good or evil today regardless of corroborating evidence

Good and evil is a loaded phrase. Full of judgement. I agree a lot of people put more stock in religious texts. I disagree that that is a good thing also it does not make them more "true".

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1637 by GDR, posted 01-27-2019 10:18 PM GDR has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1644 of 1677 (847853)
01-28-2019 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1625 by Thugpreacha
01-27-2019 4:56 AM


Re: Research Delusions
Because at some point the goobers were there. They recorded what happened.

Not true and I think you know it is not true. You have been on this forum long enough to know that this has been argued ad nauseum. None of the people who wrote down the gospel stories or Paul(and those that pretended they were Paul) were eyewitnesses. That being said Ringo was not talking about that. He was talking about the dishonest and manipulative biblical "scholars". You do realize that the vast majority of biblical "scholars" do not have any higher level education outside of biblical studies. They are not trained as historians or linguists or textual analysts. All they are trained in is apologetics. All fields of scholarship and science are in a constant state of change and flux as new information emerges. Biblical "scholarship" remains rooted in the past with almost no change.

Edited by Theodoric, : Spelling and punctuation


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1625 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-27-2019 4:56 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1647 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-31-2019 8:54 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 1648 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-31-2019 9:13 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1645 of 1677 (848138)
01-31-2019 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1636 by Theodoric
01-27-2019 9:14 PM


Re: Research Delusions
Replied to wrong post

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1636 by Theodoric, posted 01-27-2019 9:14 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1646 of 1677 (848139)
01-31-2019 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1635 by GDR
01-27-2019 8:57 PM


Re: Research Delusions
I never did get an explanation about what a historical "truth" is. Any chance you could define it and give some examples? I would like to run this whole historical "truth" thing by some people I know that are professionals in the field. See their take, but I have to know what it means.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1635 by GDR, posted 01-27-2019 8:57 PM GDR has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1649 of 1677 (848146)
01-31-2019 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1648 by LamarkNewAge
01-31-2019 9:13 PM


Re: Research Delusions
I just mean what I write. You should not read any more or any less into anything I write.

Edited by Theodoric, : Spelling


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1648 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-31-2019 9:13 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1650 of 1677 (848147)
01-31-2019 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1647 by LamarkNewAge
01-31-2019 8:54 PM


Re: Research Delusions
Nothing you wrote debunks what I stated. Seemed more like just random statements than an argument.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1647 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-31-2019 8:54 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1652 of 1677 (848150)
01-31-2019 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1651 by LamarkNewAge
01-31-2019 9:45 PM


Re: Research Delusions
Care to provide sources and actual data, rather than just assertion.
Prester John was a myth, doesn't matter where the idea came from he was a myth.
Paul was not an eyewitness to any Jesus character and never claimed to. He does not even treat the Jesus if his teachings as a historical character.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1651 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-31-2019 9:45 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1653 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-01-2019 8:13 AM Theodoric has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


(2)
Message 1654 of 1677 (848166)
02-01-2019 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1653 by LamarkNewAge
02-01-2019 8:13 AM


Re: Research Delusions
But he communicated with people who actually LIVED WITH HIM.
Paul communicated with James (bro of Jesus).

No and no. There is no evidence of this. Paul makes comments of brother of Jesus, but this probably meant like it does in some churches now. Where people are brother and sister in Christ. Also, just because people make a claim it does not make it true. There is no corroborating evidence of this meeting or that this James had a brother who was Jesus Christ.

And most historians do find the Josephus text to be a non-Christian witness to both James and Jesus, especially the part that describes James' death.

No they do not. How can someone be witness to something that happened before they were born? Even if it is original Josephus and not an interpolation, it is just Josephus relaying stories. Unlike the vast majority of Josephus the jesus parts have no corroboration. Josephus is not and cannot be used as evidence of the historicity of the jesus christ character.
There is no contemporary, first hand evidence for the existence of this character. Paul, in all personas, never talks about the actual life of the character or that there was a historical existence

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1653 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-01-2019 8:13 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1655 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-01-2019 6:57 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6577
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1657 of 1677 (848261)
02-02-2019 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1656 by LamarkNewAge
02-02-2019 12:51 AM


Re: Though Theodoric is confused, here is a link supporting his argument.
Josephus had no first hand knowledge of Jesus or a brother James. There is no corroborating information for anything in the works of Josephus about Jesus or James.

I am not confused, I just require standards to be followed for all historical claims.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1656 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-02-2019 12:51 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1659 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-03-2019 2:36 AM Theodoric has responded

    
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