Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith

To the peanut gallery: (I could'nt have said it better myself) also pay attention ringo-- The rest of the article supports the idea that salvation is by faith alone through Christ alone.
Why is salvation by works the predominantly held viewpoint?Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

How can I believe you when you doubt that the messenger even exists?Consider Jesus is essentially telling the Disciples to go spread the message. He who receives the messenger receives the message.He who receives the disciple receives Jesus and whoever receives Jesus receives God. You keep telling me that the letter is more important than the envelope but it appears to me that the message gets spread better by receiving the messenger behind the message, as I have told you over and over and over and over. You tend to disagree, citing the fact that many who claim to know the messenger are professing empty faith. So around and around we go....Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

I get that. The scripture I quoted even supports what you say...giving a cup of water....Frankly I dont see why we disagree. Im just telling you that messenger and message are equally important...whereas you are telling me that the message is everything.

no...to use a better analogy...the message of the Disciple and Jesus Who sent him are equally important. The disciple cant very well be spreading the message if Jesus and God never existed.

Another way to look at it is that the letter and the author of the letter are equally important.

I get that. I'm thinking this out and could basically argue either way...
On the one hand, jars argument that if the stories were simply tales told around a campfire they would still have value could be argued successfully.I suppose I will concede your point for now...though something in me wants to acknowledge the necessity of getting saved and receiving the messenger first.....Whereas you are eternally holding out for evidence.I can't fathom being a lifelong skeptic and yet advocating doing the message sent by a non-existent Ghost.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Gosh, I hope I dont have the same brand! I have no inner nor justifiable hatred that I know of...

My only observation is that you essentially have thrown all of the Bible out except Matthew 25.

I don't. I realize the wisdom behind it....but I think some of us can end up finding works to do that make us feel good also...giving a bunch of homeless down-on-their-luck guys beer money and getting to know them may make ME feel good, but is it really what I am called to do? Not that I mind doing it...(I have my own people whom I help, and I feel that I can always do more...I battle my own selfish need to hold on to my money versus doing for others, but I am getting better)....

if all you do is give them beer money and listen to their sob stories on a bar stool next to them, you are not helping them do anything except express their frustrations and excuses in life.

You certainly make a case for corruption within organized religion. We know it happens, but we can't vilify everyone. Can we make the claim that Luther, Calvin, and the early church fathers invented salvation by grace alone through faith alone? And if so, can we attribute ulterior (greedy) motives?jar and ringo provide the counter-argument that Christianity is about what we actually do for others...no strings attached. What gets me is that God is not even needed for this good action to occur...we all may well be altruistic secular humanists. And of course, that negates the idea of original sin. What do you think of the doctrine of original sin? Why did they market that one?

So are you supporting the idea that Calvin (and perhaps Luther also) were cons? That the church marketed to acquire a paying audience?

So is pride. Granted the passage goes on to say that there is none who does good....which you could argue is precisely not what you advocate. The jury is still out on whether a relationship or acknowledgment of Jesus Christ is even necessary...some of us believe that it obviously is required. You, on the other hand, believe that the good works are all that is required and if God exists, He will sort the sheep and goats to their respective destinies.

So you think that it is impossible for a Creator of all seen and unseen to impress upon you? What would your idea be of God if He did exist? That He would simply tell us that we already know the essential message and thus should simply go and do?That we need not concern ourselves with His guidance on a living real-time basis? That by doing unto the least of these we are already doing unto Him?What is God going to do in the meantime? Wait for us to complete our lives and grade us on a curve?I suspect that you don't count on Him actually existing and are preparing to grade yourself.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

I might say that I saw that same guy stealing from my place of employment and decided that I was not going to cast pearls before swine. He may well chastize me for judging, however. I doubt He would be surprised at my response. AS I have said elsewhere, once you let everyone in your house you either have to change them or accept them as they are. Whether God wants me to throw my earnings around indiscriminately or not has not been determined. Would you mind giving your hard earned money to someone who had no respect for social order?