Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 77 (8973 total)
177 online now:
PaulK (1 member, 176 visitors)
Newest Member: Howyoudo
Post Volume: Total: 875,676 Year: 7,424/23,288 Month: 1,330/1,214 Week: 0/342 Day: 0/71 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 46 of 1677 (839104)
09-03-2018 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Tangle
09-03-2018 11:43 AM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
Scared of socialism? Sheesh, that's the entirety of the Christian message - love thy neighbour and do as you would be done by. This is why Christians get a bad name, they love getting on their knees and hailing the wonders of the Lord, but ignore his instructions because it doesn't suit them.

I suppose I shouldn't bother answering this sort of nonsense for the umpteenth time, but I did recently post an article that confirms that conservatives, motivated mostly by religion, give a lot more to charitable causes than liberals. See Message 289. Christianity is NOT socialist because giving is voluntary, not forced on us by authority as socialism is.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Tangle, posted 09-03-2018 11:43 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by ringo, posted 09-03-2018 1:01 PM Faith has responded
 Message 59 by Straggler, posted 09-03-2018 6:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 47 of 1677 (839107)
09-03-2018 12:41 PM


Global Paganism coming down the pike?
If the Rapture DOES happen soon, or for that matter whenever it happens, the following Tribulation I wouldn't wish on anybody. Although I do think the first part of it may be very welcome to a lot of people because you'll all finally be rid of the main political barrier to a lot of liberal causes. Globalism should have a pretty free course, and socialism on a global scale.

There will probably be some kind of global religion too but it won't be the hated religion of the Bible, more likely a form of paganism, something New Agey "spiritual" and man-centered. (It might call itself "Christianity" though, and I'd guess the Pope would put himself at the head of it). The book-reading program on my local Christian radio station (Pilgrim Radio dot com) just started on a book titled The Coming Pagan Utopia, a collection of essays by different Christian authors edited by Peter Jones, attempting to describe the political system they see coming down the pike these days. They aren't predicating it on Christians being raptured since it's written to help us cope with it when it comes, but if the Rapture does come soon it could describe how things will develop with us out of the way. The first essay describes how the system that develops will necessarily be totalitarian and personal freedoms will be lost because dissent would of course interfere with the program. That might not bother a lot of people who are already persuaded of the utopian vision.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by frako, posted 09-03-2018 12:49 PM Faith has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18121
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 48 of 1677 (839108)
09-03-2018 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
09-03-2018 6:14 AM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
Phat writes:

Reality shows me that whether or not I advocate a capitalist system, it is likely to remain the status quo until it fails to6tally.


But it isn't the status quo. You already have some socialist programs. You could advocate catching up with the rest of the civilized world.

Phat writes:

The humanist philosophy that people can learn to be good has no real proof, so far.


Of course it does have proof. We learned that slavery is wrong, didn't we? Why can't we learn to take care of the poor and sick too?

We do have a problem with religious types like you who advocate against what Jesus taught but maybe even religious types can learn to be good. Or maybe they will be raptured and leave the rest of us in a golden age of humanism.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 09-03-2018 6:14 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2923
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 49 of 1677 (839110)
09-03-2018 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Faith
09-03-2018 12:41 PM


well if the rapture happens, there would be no homeless people do to all the empty houses, no hunger do to the abundance of food not being eaten, no shortage of clothes or appliances, less pollution, frankly the sooner the rapture happens the better

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 09-03-2018 12:41 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 09-03-2018 1:04 PM frako has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18121
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 50 of 1677 (839111)
09-03-2018 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
09-03-2018 11:53 AM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
Phat writes:

... he insists I lower my lifestyle for the benefit of the secular brethren.


No. You're the one that assumes being fair to the poor and the sick will hurt your cushy lifestyle. I have said more than once that helping the poor and the sick would improve productivity and help the economy.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 09-03-2018 11:53 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18121
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 51 of 1677 (839113)
09-03-2018 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Faith
09-03-2018 12:11 PM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
Faith writes:

Christianity is NOT socialist because giving is voluntary, not forced on us by authority as socialism is.


Still wrong, no matter how many times you repeat it. The principle is that everything you "own" belongs to God. The authority is God.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Faith, posted 09-03-2018 12:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 09-03-2018 1:03 PM ringo has responded
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 09-03-2018 4:41 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 52 of 1677 (839114)
09-03-2018 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by ringo
09-03-2018 1:01 PM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
Absolutely, everything I own belongs to God, but nevertheless He gives me the freedom to give it as I choose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by ringo, posted 09-03-2018 1:01 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 09-03-2018 2:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 53 of 1677 (839115)
09-03-2018 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by frako
09-03-2018 12:49 PM


That's the spirit!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by frako, posted 09-03-2018 12:49 PM frako has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18121
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 54 of 1677 (839131)
09-03-2018 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
09-03-2018 1:03 PM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
Faith writes:

Absolutely, everything I own belongs to God, but nevertheless He gives me the freedom to give it as I choose.


And if you make the wrong choices, you're a goat, no matter how loudly you say, "Lord! Lord!" Socialism helps you to make the right choices.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 09-03-2018 1:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 09-03-2018 3:21 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13937
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 55 of 1677 (839135)
09-03-2018 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by ringo
09-03-2018 2:05 PM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
mandatory socialism is the religion of the antichrist

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 09-03-2018 2:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by jar, posted 09-03-2018 3:29 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 60 by ringo, posted 09-04-2018 11:43 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32513
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 56 of 1677 (839136)
09-03-2018 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Phat
09-03-2018 3:21 PM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
Socialism was what Jesus taught.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 09-03-2018 3:21 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13937
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 57 of 1677 (839137)
09-03-2018 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by ringo
09-03-2018 1:01 PM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
The principle is that everything you "own" belongs to God. The authority is God.

And mandatory taxation is no substitute. Don't you get that we don't trust collective humanity to dictate our giving?

You can crow all you want about socialist principles being what Jesus taught, but yet you give no importance to the messenger...while I insist that I must hear from Him directly and won't accept some form of government as a substitute.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by ringo, posted 09-03-2018 1:01 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by ringo, posted 09-04-2018 11:48 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 63 by Percy, posted 09-05-2018 12:58 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7627
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 58 of 1677 (839138)
09-03-2018 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
09-03-2018 11:53 AM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
Phat writes:

You bring up that Jesus would likely approve. I can't argue with you guys about this point.

Lots do. But of course there's no real argument, just self-justification and rationalisation.

It pisses me off though. Where is my liferaft?

You should realise by now that there is no liferaft. This is what we all have and we need to make the most of it. Betting today on a childish myth of a better life after is really foolish. All that promise ever was was a way to allow the downtrodden masses to bear an unbearable inequality between those with wealth and power- most importantly the church - and the proles that actually create the wealth and power for them.

You have said that you have money, Tangle. Would you want to give it all up?

Of course not. But you've created a false dichotomy. Humanism and socialism isn't communism - I'm for fair and progressive taxation funding a high level welfare state and a determined efort to create a more equitable society, because we know that inequality creates unhappiness. I always find it weird that Americans search for their much lorded happiness where they know it's least likely to be found.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 09-03-2018 11:53 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 142 days)
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(5)
Message 59 of 1677 (839140)
09-03-2018 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Faith
09-03-2018 12:11 PM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
A lot of Socialism is about a belief in the power of collective action, shared resource and people’s co-operative nature. Capitalism emphasises people’s competitive and individualistic/selfish nature. Both systems are advocated by their proponents as a route to happiness and propsperity for all. The truth is that people are both naturally cooperative and naturally competitive and that the best systems of organising ourselves (societies....) are those that attempt to harness both of these natural proclivities for maximum collective gain. “Free” markets do demonstrably result in innovation that benefits us all in the right circumstances. Collecting resources on the basis of ability to contribute and distributing on the basis of need works better in other areas. The problems generally arise when people get ideologically tied to one over the other. Trying to apply market ideology to things like health and education, which are better provided collectively and cooperatively, is as misguided as attempts to have state run car manufacturers of the Soviet kind.

Anyway - In general the teachings of Christ do more emphasise notions of cooperatism. I’d expect Christ to advocate education, health, access to justice, the rule of law etc. to all equally or on the basis of need. Rather than ability to pay.

I guess in Faith’s view anything called “socialism” just means evil government dictating what everyone does. But I’d argue a more Scandinavian model where collective resource is used to provide everyone in society with basic standards in key areas (health, education, transport etc.) that ultimately makes the whole economy more productive and the people happier. I think Christ would be a Scandinavian Socialist.....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Faith, posted 09-03-2018 12:11 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18121
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 60 of 1677 (839155)
09-04-2018 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Phat
09-03-2018 3:21 PM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
Phat writes:

mandatory socialism is the religion of the antichrist


That's just a stupid right-wing sound bite, without a germ of truth to it. You should be ashamed of yourself.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 09-03-2018 3:21 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020