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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 1441 of 1677 (847154)
01-18-2019 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1438 by Faith
01-18-2019 2:28 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Faith writes:
...because of the heavy indoctrination against demon possession.
Just like the song!
"Let my... unicorns... gooooooo!!!!!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1438 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 2:28 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1445 by Phat, posted 01-18-2019 4:34 PM Stile has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1442 of 1677 (847156)
01-18-2019 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1426 by Faith
01-18-2019 1:04 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Let me explain the story more fully. Jason(the victim of the oppression perhaps), Mike (my roomie and the one whose Mom was charismatic) and Eddie(who was with them) were at a youth event. They were hanging out together and, at this time, were not prone to known episodes of either mental illness or practical jokes. In fact, having observed the three young men's behavior both before and after the event, I saw no evidence in their character that they had blatantly lied to me, made anything up, or had hidden voiceboxes.
(In fact, they would also state to this day that what they had experienced was unexplainable, though they likely would say it was demonic) In addition to that, the circumstances surrounding the event were more than normally bizarre. To this day I have never experienced any (other) unknown event with that power! It was close to 1 am. The buildings residents were sound asleep, as was I. I woke up suddenly with a strange urge to pray. So I reluctantly did, even though I was groggy and knew not what to pray about....as I was praying, in the other part of the house suddenly there were shouts. loud...I mean LOUD! Even if it were staged, there is no way these boys would have started such a ruckus at 1 am, when the police could easily have been called. At the same time as the shouting started, I felt this strange static electrical feeling over and around my body. I thought WTF? and got up to investigate. In the other room, two of the boys were shouting at the third one, who was growling and biting himself. His eyes were the reddest I had ever seen....blood red...more than stoner red...and again, none of them were doing drugs---these were young men addicted to charismania. So I'll give you the vague possibility that they were simply attempting to imitate what they had seen other charismaniacs do...but let me emphasize that they were so loud and serious at what was now 130 or 2 am that I just watched...Truthfully, demons were not my first explanation...I too thought mental illness, a bad burrito, drugs...anything more normal. At that moment, Mike (who was trying to be the exorcist) plead the Blood of Jesus over Jason, whereupon multiple high pitched voices emanated...there is NO WAY that such voices could be imitated, nor such sounds even produced with what we had and knew. As soon as I "heard" what I was certain were multiple voices---in the pitch of the chipmunks---saying "The Blood? No! No! Not the Blood!" I felt a wave of fear and realization wash over me. At that moment, 1 year into the charismatic environment at an otherwise "normal" church, I realized that the voices were real and they were NOT coming from any of us. Which meant that whatever it was was real...which was not what I was afraid of, by the way. I was afraid at that moment that what this meant was that the Bible...bizarre as its stories sometimes sound---was literally real and that demons were a reality.
Now...Ive had many years to reflect on this never to be forgotten incident. I have become more rational in my thinking, out of respect for what education and rational critical thinking can do...but I'll never forget that experience. It was easier to dismiss what I had seen a couple of times at church...people being prayed over, manifesting bizarre behavior (yet never any voices such as I heard) and throwing up. I get that lots of charismatic religion is faked. One other time a church I was at attempted to imitate the Toronto Blessing Holy Laughter phenon/cult. I recall nearly everyone in the room laughing except me. I simply did not feel the urge nor any need to imitate the crowd behavior.
So I'm not easily convinced of anything. I won't rule out that any other explanations could be better than my supernatural one. But I won't ever forget that night...not as long as I live.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1426 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 1:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1449 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 4:54 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1466 by ringo, posted 01-19-2019 10:52 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 1443 of 1677 (847157)
01-18-2019 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1438 by Faith
01-18-2019 2:28 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Oh, yes, demon possession is a real thing. The evil demon is irrational illogical thought paired with the evil superstitions of religious dogma.
You, my dearest, are one the most demon possessed people I have ever encountered. The demon has your brain and is forcing you to spout the evil you speak against all humanity.
Be gone demon! Go out from this gentle soul!
The power of logic compels you!
The power of logic compels you!
The power of logic compels you!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1438 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 2:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1444 by Phat, posted 01-18-2019 4:13 PM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 1448 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 4:49 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1444 of 1677 (847158)
01-18-2019 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1443 by AZPaul3
01-18-2019 3:36 PM


We All Get Snappy At Times
AZPaul3, speaking to Faith writes:
The evil demon is irrational illogical thought paired with the evil superstitions of religious dogma.
I'm all for logic, but I have not yet concluded that everything taught is necessarily superstitious or fantasy. Granted the power of logic compels me to consider such abnormal explanations as unlikely...but perhaps the need to believe keeps me from concluding that all is superstition (regarding God, Jesus,the Holy Spirit, and other possible demons, devils and wannabe spirits.)
Faith takes a harder stance than I do in that she believes the Bible alone of all books is truth. My stance as of now is that I am unafraid to question it. I take my stand on the idea that God exists, God is Spirit, and that Jesus represents Gods human link to us...Jesus is Gods human character. I asked Him into my heart in 1993 and this started a whole other perspective on life for me. I used to believe in 100% Biblical Inerrancy and Literalism, but I began to question them. Granted these may be illogical thoughts, but I'm not ready to write the belief off as ancient superstition and myth. Critics would say that I resist compelling logic. As for our(EvC Christians) attitudes and character, I can only speak for myself. I would be more than willing to give up a belief in demons...why give "them" any power or credit? The same cannot be said for my belief in God. I pray that He enlighten all of us both through the power of logic and the power of love.
The reason some people get snappy and bitter towards you and other detractors is that they are hurting in life anyway...struggling with various diseases, aches, and pains. I am one week away from a Vitrectomy and a couple weeks of recovery. Faith may feel as if you don't respect her belief, her intelligence, nor her right to believe..irrational though it may seem to you. Keep thinking of Faith as a gentle soul, and you may yet be the exorcist that God sent. Thinking of her as hateful and harpy will only feed the thing that separates her from the rest of you. At our core, none of us are perfect no matter how many college diplomas we possess.
Thats my 2 cents.
Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1443 by AZPaul3, posted 01-18-2019 3:36 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1450 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 5:08 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1454 by AZPaul3, posted 01-18-2019 6:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1459 by Faith, posted 01-19-2019 1:16 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1445 of 1677 (847159)
01-18-2019 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1441 by Stile
01-18-2019 2:52 PM


Unicorny Musings
There is actually such a song?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1441 by Stile, posted 01-18-2019 2:52 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1533 by Stile, posted 01-21-2019 10:28 AM Phat has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1446 of 1677 (847160)
01-18-2019 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1439 by Tangle
01-18-2019 2:29 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Demons explain nothing. If they did, we'd have the explanation - we'd know for certain. We'd have rock solid evidence, it would be easy. But obviously we don't, just like miracles, they never, ever happen where they can be studied, we just have crazies like you spouting unevidenced crap about natural phenomenon.
Yeah I really just wanted to hear Phat's story but of course I have to deal with all this too unfortunately. Just what he and I both have said on this so far is good enough reason to take us seriously but the bias is so entrenched that isn't going to happen.
Demons are invisible and if they don't want to be found out all they have to do is stay silent. But people all over the world have known about demons, it's just that "modern science" has become a reason they lie low and pretend not to exist.
Demons are intelligent beings. Phat did hear their voices in his friend's body, so did the man I've been talking about. Sometimes they possess a person's vocal organs and speak through them that way, but sometimes there are voices just coming out of a person's body from where the spirit beings have set up residence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1439 by Tangle, posted 01-18-2019 2:29 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1455 by Tangle, posted 01-18-2019 6:35 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1447 of 1677 (847161)
01-18-2019 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1440 by Tangle
01-18-2019 2:36 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Not making up excuses, explaining why intelligent beings would be hard to detect. They are obliged to answer to the authority of Jesus Christ but not obliged to answer to unbelievers.
I've encountered demonic phenomena in other forms, just not a possessed person. My physical condition is such that I'm not going to be visiting any mental hospitals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1440 by Tangle, posted 01-18-2019 2:36 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1456 by Tangle, posted 01-18-2019 6:37 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1448 of 1677 (847163)
01-18-2019 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1443 by AZPaul3
01-18-2019 3:36 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
I may actually have a demon or some demons. That's a common result of experience in the occult, which I was involved in during the years I was reading my way to belief in Christ. There is nobody in my life who believes in these things, though, at least no one who could help me find out and deal with them. I may get this book I keep mentioning -- have to wait to have the money, running behind this month -- and it may have clear enough instructions for me to test out all this myself. The idea of trying to do this myself is not welcome, but I may not have any choice.
abe; evil I speak against all humanity? Weird, really weird. In fact THAT sounds like something a demon must have made up.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1443 by AZPaul3, posted 01-18-2019 3:36 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1449 of 1677 (847164)
01-18-2019 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1442 by Phat
01-18-2019 3:28 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Thanks for filling out the story Phat. I keep worrying about your friend Jason though, wish he'd had those demons cast out, sometime if not at that time.
I once heard a demonic voice that sounded like those chipmunks. Funny they sound like that. But I heard another that sounded like a deep voice echoing inside a metal barrel. Both of them made me laugh.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1442 by Phat, posted 01-18-2019 3:28 PM Phat has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1450 of 1677 (847166)
01-18-2019 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1444 by Phat
01-18-2019 4:13 PM


Re: We All Get Snappy At Times
Faith takes a harder stance than I do in that she believes the Bible alone of all books is truth.
Phat, you are misstating my beliefs in many ways. I believe the Bible is completely reliable inerrant truth, but that doesn't mean I don't regard other books and sources of information as also containing truth, possibly being completely true. As long as there is no contradiction with the Bible I have no trouble with that idea. And that's how I regard most science too, though you suggest I don't. I object only to the historical sciences, the Old Earth and biological Evolution, and they cannot be proved unlike the hard sciences.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1444 by Phat, posted 01-18-2019 4:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1451 of 1677 (847167)
01-18-2019 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1398 by Faith
01-18-2019 1:21 AM


Re: Bunch of us with ties to Alberta
Faith wrote Since I'm here for the time being, I'll chime in that my father grew up on a farm not far from Calgary that his father, who had come from London, had homesteaded. My grandmother's family had come from Scotland to eastern Canada and went across Canada in a covered wagon to Alberta, where she met my grandfather.
You come from good stock Faith. My grandfather emigrated from Kent England and homesteaded originally in the Nanton area in the foothills south of Calgary with his brother. He met his brothers wife who came out from Ontario and married her.
I lived in Calgary until I was 10 but we moved around a lot in Alberta, and I wound up calling Medicine Hat my home town where I went through high school. It was a great place and time to be young.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1398 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 1:21 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1452 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 5:32 PM GDR has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1452 of 1677 (847168)
01-18-2019 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1451 by GDR
01-18-2019 5:16 PM


Re: Bunch of us with ties to Alberta
He met his brothers wife who came out from Ontario and married her.
Eh???????
Medicine Hat. Some interesting names in that part of the world. My grandfather homesteaded in the Pincher Creek area, also my grandmother's family though I'm not as clear about their history. They were nearby anyway. Both my grandparents were dead by the time my father took us to Canada on yearly visits. But we had aunts and uncles and cousins galore, lots of fun.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1451 by GDR, posted 01-18-2019 5:16 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1453 by GDR, posted 01-18-2019 6:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1453 of 1677 (847170)
01-18-2019 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1452 by Faith
01-18-2019 5:32 PM


Re: Bunch of us with ties to Alberta
Smiley face I meant his brothers wife's sister and married her.
The name Medicine Hat came from an old native legend.
Edited by GDR, : took twice to get it right

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1452 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 5:32 PM Faith has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 1454 of 1677 (847171)
01-18-2019 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1444 by Phat
01-18-2019 4:13 PM


Re: We All Get Snappy At Times
Faith may feel as if you don't respect her belief,
There would be a reason for that. I don't.
her intelligence,
That one is more problematic. The girl has some mental muscle. Unfortunately it seems mostly wrapped around her errant evil book leaving little capacity left to dispassionately assess or care for the realities of the universe and of the human condition.
nor her right to believe..irrational though it may seem to you.
Please, don't anyone ever get me wrong on this score. Ones right to their beliefs is nigh on sacred with me. I also happen to believe in all peoples' rights to criticize and belittle the more inane/downright crazy beliefs that some insist are real.
That doesn't mean I deny anyone any right to believe as their minds bend them. But it also doesn't mean I must, or will, suffer fools in silence.
Keep thinking of Faith as a gentle soul, and you may yet be the exorcist that God sent.
That would be something, wouldn't it. To be able to rescue, by sheer force of my rhetoric, both M'lady Faith and yourself from the demons of religious evil, religious thought. I could be the great liberator of those whose minds have been entrapped by religion. I could change the face of society. I could RULE THE WORLD!
Probably not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1444 by Phat, posted 01-18-2019 4:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1455 of 1677 (847172)
01-18-2019 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1446 by Faith
01-18-2019 4:34 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Faith writes:
Demons are invisible and if they don't want to be found out all they have to do is stay silent.
Right silent and invisible. Almost like non-existent.
But people all over the world have known about demons, it's just that "modern science" has become a reason they lie low and pretend not to exist.
People all over the world know it, but somehow it escapes the objective gaze of science. You'd have thought that those that believed this stuff could have produced the evidence to prove it, but nope, never done.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1446 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 4:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1458 by Faith, posted 01-19-2019 1:11 AM Tangle has replied

  
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