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Author Topic:   The Atheist Experience
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 90 of 283 (839916)
09-18-2018 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Faith
09-18-2018 2:20 PM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
I'll take that bet. How much?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 09-18-2018 2:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 09-18-2018 3:58 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 92 of 283 (839920)
09-18-2018 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Faith
09-18-2018 3:58 PM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
Faith writes:
No money, just a pat on the back. Find the test first.
You've already failed the test. It was how you deal with bias when considering evidence. Especially evidence that you have a personal stake in. Not only did you fail, you refused to learn about it and how to deal it. You haven't even read the research on what it is.
You're avoiding learning how to think critically and rationally and you've demonstrated that you can't.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 09-18-2018 3:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 09-18-2018 4:48 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 09-18-2018 10:15 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 09-19-2018 10:42 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 103 of 283 (864696)
10-15-2019 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Phat
10-15-2019 4:15 AM


Re: Matt Dillahunty & his fundie family feud.
Phat writes:
Unless the alleged supernatural Being provided a method where humanity could interact with it.
Yeh well, we're all still waiting for that.
You know the story.
Yes, it's a story. One of many.
And I then resort to the Appeal To Popularity.
Which you would, of course, lose. So that's that then?
Critics seem to equate belief in God as a belief that is as irrational as belief in Odin, or Spaghetti Monsters or Bigfoots.
And so it is.
But when was the last time you even heard an argument from *anyone* defending the viability of a premise that any of them existed?
Believers in all sorts of irrational stuff exist. I'm sure there's a load of Odin worshipers out there somewhere that will happily tell you their argument. As I say, people will believe in anything.
Why is it a logical fallacy to invoke popularity? Surely the fact that so many seek to defend Christianity somehow correlates to a reason why it is something worth defending.
Because it's a fallacy. You know, something that is an error of logic? The billions that believe in Vishnu doesn't make him exist. To you, does Vishnu exist - he's very popular? Why is your particular god any different?
yes. I know. But it is more than blind chance, in my opinion.
If you only believe what you believe because you were born where and when you were, how can it not be chance?
Christianity won't go away anytime soon...despite your hopes.
Christianity as a fundie religion is fading fast. It'll probably never fully disappear, there will always be nut jobs that need it.
When society breaks, rationality goes out the window. And don't accuse me of wanting chaos to occur. I will argue that it is cyclical and inevitable.
Societies 'break' all the time. Then they rebuild or get consumed by others. It's normal. Read history. It's not the end of the world, it's the human condition. We're trying to modify it and it's not going to work by praying for it.
The closer that humanity gets to a godless society, the closer we also get to extinction. Odd that.
What utter crap. The Middle East is riddled with fundy religions and look at the sate of it. The more developed a society gets the more stable it gets and the more capable it is of solving its problems in a sane manner. The world is in a far better state than it's ever been.
If you guys are not actually wanting the world to come to an end you're claiming that it is. It's crap; you're part of the problem, not the solution.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Phat, posted 10-15-2019 4:15 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(3)
Message 107 of 283 (864720)
10-15-2019 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Phat
10-15-2019 3:17 PM


Re: Matt Dillahunty & his fundie family feud.
Phat writes:
What you atheists have essentially done is take your minority representation in the wider debate and, using the criteria of evidence, making it the default position for judging the validity of all beliefs.
It's science that did that, not atheism and it's everything that needs to be judged by evidence, not just belief.
You want your personal belief to be exceptional, it's not, it's commonplace and it doesn't stand up to objective testing.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Phat, posted 10-15-2019 3:17 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 10-15-2019 4:14 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 109 of 283 (864722)
10-15-2019 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Phat
10-15-2019 4:14 PM


Re: Matt Dillahunty & his fundie family feud.
Phat writes:
But what you cant see--cant measure..and cant validate is the internal change that happened to me. First back in 1993, and ongoing. You will say it is delusional and made up by my mind. I disagree. But of course, I can't prove that to you. So here we are
I don't doubt all that for a minute. It happened to you, sure. What you don't and can't get is that it's not exceptional and it's not god. It's something that happens all the time to people of all religions and none. It's a mind state.
Your mind is fooling you and it's fooling you with stuff that you've been taught and know, not something you didn't already know. Now *that* might have been evidence.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 10-15-2019 4:14 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 10-15-2019 4:32 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 10-15-2019 5:41 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 116 of 283 (864748)
10-16-2019 2:49 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Faith
10-15-2019 5:41 PM


Re: Matt Dillahunty & his fundie family feud.
Faith writes:
It's specifically Christian
Are you seriously saying that conversion experienses only happen to would-be Christians?
and NO it does NOT happen in any other context,
Of course it does. It even happens to atheists. It happened to me, my eyes were opened to a new truth. There is no god.
NO. And how could YOU possibly know "it's not God?"
Because there is no god. And I've seen people with similar delusion and certainties in my local mental hospital. Once you've seen a couple of Napoleans arguing, it's very easy to accept the susceptability of the human mind to believing what they need to believe.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 10-15-2019 5:41 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 10-16-2019 4:04 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 119 of 283 (864785)
10-16-2019 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Faith
10-16-2019 4:04 PM


Re: Matt Dillahunty & his fundie family feud.
Faith writes:
Yes I'm quite serious, conversion experiences are a specifically Christian thing.
Rubbish.
Sure you can change from one belief system to another in any religious or philosophical context, but that's not a "conversion experience."
What the hell is it then?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 10-16-2019 4:04 PM Faith has not replied

  
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