Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8945 total)
22 online now:
PaulK (1 member, 21 visitors)
Newest Member: ski zawaski
Upcoming Birthdays: ONESOlivia, perfect
Post Volume: Total: 865,370 Year: 20,406/19,786 Month: 803/2,023 Week: 311/392 Day: 1/41 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Atheist Experience
Taq
Member
Posts: 8159
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


(2)
Message 271 of 283 (865447)
10-25-2019 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Thugpreacha
10-21-2019 4:25 PM


Re: Taq tics
Thugpreacha writes:

Our issue here is Why Atheism?

Why a-bigfootism? Why a-leprechaunism? There are tons of things you don't believe in. I would start there, and try to understand why you don't believe in them.

Will belief always be around? Or will humanity either outgrow the need (or God simply shows up undeniably)?

I suspect that some sort of faith-based belief will always be a part of human society. It seems to be part of human psychology and experience. People find importance in religion, so who am I to tell them what is important in their lives? All that I really ask is that our government, law, and public institutions remain secular.

Why do you personally stick around EvC? Is it the people here? Is this sorta like an online social club? After all, we endlessly discuss the same things: Religion/Evolution vs Creationism, and Trump.

Mostly this:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-21-2019 4:25 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 272 of 283 (865449)
10-25-2019 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Thugpreacha
10-25-2019 12:05 PM


Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
Phat writes:

Keep in mind that when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, the devil himself knew scripture, and attempted to use it against Jesus. I am careful to not just take the text as written using conventional logic, reason, and reality.


What makes you think Jesus didn't take the text as written?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-25-2019 12:05 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-25-2019 12:19 PM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13154
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 273 of 283 (865450)
10-25-2019 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by ringo
10-25-2019 12:16 PM


Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
Huh? No Comprende. Why would He not take the devil at his word, even if the word was the word written years before? The whole issue was that it was the devil attempting to get Jesus to agree with the scripture as an easy way out of his trial.

We can all learn from that. Easy does not usually mean better.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by ringo, posted 10-25-2019 12:16 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by ringo, posted 10-25-2019 12:29 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 274 of 283 (865454)
10-25-2019 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Thugpreacha
10-25-2019 12:19 PM


Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
Phat writes:

The whole issue was that it was the devil attempting to get Jesus to agree with the scripture as an easy way out of his trial.


The whole issue is that both Jesus and the devil quoted scripture exactly as it is, not in some voodoo interpretation like you seem to advocate. And notice that the devil's quotes and Jesus' quotes disagreed with each other - i.e. the Bible, taken as "one book", contradicts itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-25-2019 12:19 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-25-2019 12:34 PM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13154
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 275 of 283 (865458)
10-25-2019 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by ringo
10-25-2019 12:29 PM


Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
ringo writes:

And notice that the devil's quotes and Jesus' quotes disagreed with each other - i.e. the Bible, taken as "one book", contradicts itself.

We also can use scriptures to contradict each other, but you always chide me for not listening to the character whom I believe in...and I always chide you for denying His existence.

So whats your point? We all know that the Bible can be taken to mean anything anyone wants it to mean...to a degree.

My point is that God cannot lie and that Jesus never lied. Snakes and devils do lie...mostly by not telling us the bigger picture.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by ringo, posted 10-25-2019 12:29 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by ringo, posted 10-25-2019 12:45 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 278 by jar, posted 10-25-2019 2:52 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 276 of 283 (865459)
10-25-2019 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Thugpreacha
10-25-2019 12:34 PM


Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
Phat writes:

My point is that God cannot lie....


And that point is still wrong.

Phat writes:

Snakes and devils do lie...


I'm not aware of any lying snakes in the Bible. Do you have an example?

Phat writes:

...mostly by not telling us the bigger picture.


In Genesis 2-3 it was God who didn't give the bigger picture. Even if we take your interpretation, He didn't tell Adam that "death" meant "spiritual death" or that "in the day" meant thousands of days in the future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-25-2019 12:34 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 277 of 283 (865464)
10-25-2019 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Thugpreacha
10-25-2019 12:05 PM


Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
Phat writes:

I expect that you will label this link as part of the conjob, but we think that you can be conned also. How To Read The Bible In Context

Yet another absurd attempt to con the rubes.

The content of the Bible is what was written in the Bible; apologetics are all just attempts to make the Bible something it is not nor was meant to be by the authors and to find loopholes to get around the actual text as written and try to make it fit the "Bible" and God" the apologists created.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-25-2019 12:05 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 278 of 283 (865466)
10-25-2019 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Thugpreacha
10-25-2019 12:34 PM


Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
Phat writes:

I expect that you will label this link as part of the conjob, but we think that you can be conned also. How To Read The Bible In Context

The point is that the Bible is filled with errors, omissions, contradictions and fantasy as well as facts and history and opinions and propaganda.

The point is that ringo acknowledges the Bible really says what it says while the apologists try to make it something different to match the God they create and market.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-25-2019 12:34 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-25-2019 4:51 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13154
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 279 of 283 (865484)
10-25-2019 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by jar
10-25-2019 2:52 PM


Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
jar writes:

The point is that ringo acknowledges the Bible really says what it says while the apologists try to make it something different to match the God they create and market.

Two points (or counterpoints)

  • The devil quoted scripture in the wilderness and that scripture also really said what it said. Jesus responded in His own words (which also later became scripture). I have no problem with the Bible "saying what it says." I do have a problem with you being ok allowing that to represent the god whom *you* market.

    Dont claim to market one, you say? How about an unknowable God who is no more likely to consider humans as important than it does pond scum?

    How about a Jesus who was simply another dead human and a failed messiah?

    You can criticize the apologists all you want about marketing their own version of God. All I am pointing out is that your product is no better.

    The God in my mind is the God I choose to believe in, whether I create him or not. I won't be throwing Him away any time soon. I also choose to believe that the Bible is God's word. His message to humanity. I don't believe that the book is perfectly without errors, but I do believe that the book can be trusted if read with the proper mind (a mind submitted to Christ rather than stubbornly independent, unbiased, and skeptical)


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
    ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 278 by jar, posted 10-25-2019 2:52 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 280 by ringo, posted 10-25-2019 4:57 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
     Message 281 by jar, posted 10-25-2019 5:20 PM Thugpreacha has responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 17519
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 3.2


    (1)
    Message 280 of 283 (865485)
    10-25-2019 4:57 PM
    Reply to: Message 279 by Thugpreacha
    10-25-2019 4:51 PM


    Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
    Phat writes:

    I do believe that the book can be trusted if read with the proper mind (a mind submitted to Christ rather than stubbornly independent, unbiased, and skeptical)


    So a "proper" mind is biased and gullible?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 279 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-25-2019 4:51 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 31611
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 281 of 283 (865486)
    10-25-2019 5:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 279 by Thugpreacha
    10-25-2019 4:51 PM


    Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
    Phat writes:

    How about an unknowable God who is no more likely to consider humans as important than it does pond scum?

    That is not something I market but rather the conclusion of all available evidence.

    Phat writes:

    How about a Jesus who was simply another dead human and a failed messiah?

    Again, what does the evidence show Phat? Did Jesus ever become a prince or ruler? Did Jesus die?

    Do you mean a mind that ignores and denies what is actually written and claims that it must mean sothething other than what was written?


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 279 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-25-2019 4:51 PM Thugpreacha has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 282 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-26-2019 4:59 PM jar has responded

      
    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 13154
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 282 of 283 (865518)
    10-26-2019 4:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 281 by jar
    10-25-2019 5:20 PM


    Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
    jar writes:

    Again, what does the evidence show Phat? Did Jesus ever become a prince or ruler? Did Jesus die?

    Do you believe that He rose again? There is no objective evidence, though some claim there is.

    Do you mean a mind that ignores and denies what is actually written and claims that it must mean something other than what was written?
    Taking all of what was written, I will ask you the question you asked me,with an additional one.

    Did Jesus ever become a prince or ruler? Did Jesus die? Do you believe that He was raised from the dead? Or do you have a mind that ignores and denies what is actually written and limits belief to evidence?


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
    ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 281 by jar, posted 10-25-2019 5:20 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 283 by jar, posted 10-26-2019 5:36 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 31611
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 283 of 283 (865521)
    10-26-2019 5:36 PM
    Reply to: Message 282 by Thugpreacha
    10-26-2019 4:59 PM


    Re: Hint: it's the Books of the Bible
    Phat writes:

    jar writes:

    Again, what does the evidence show Phat? Did Jesus ever become a prince or ruler? Did Jesus die?

    Do you believe that He rose again? There is no objective evidence, though some claim there is.

    Sorry but resurrection is not relevant to the question of whether or not Jesus was a Messiah.

    Was he ever a Prince or ruler?

    Did he die?

    Phat writes:

    Do you believe that He was raised from the dead? Or do you have a mind that ignores and denies what is actually written and limits belief to evidence?

    Again, what I believe is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Jesus was a Messiah.

    Lots of folk were raised from the dead according to the Bible stories but that was not taken as evidence that they were a Messiah.

    Trying to avoid admitting what is actually written in the Bible by using misdirection to change the topic is hardly worthwhile.

    Edited by jar, : fix quotebox


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 282 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-26-2019 4:59 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.0 Beta
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019