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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
dwise1
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Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 264 of 5796 (844335)
11-28-2018 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
11-26-2018 1:41 PM


Re: It Ain't Turkey Day
To its credit, the Right has "saved" us from as rapid of a merge into "globalization" treaties and agreements.
While they give money away to corporations which are themselves globalized and who, in the interest of lowering expenses in order to increase profit, move manufacturing jobs overseas to where labor is cheaper. Of course, this has resulted in the world-wide level of poverty decreasing, which is a good thing but not for American workers who have lost their jobs.
And before someone pipes in about tax breaks for those corporations who bring their foreign money back into the USA, those same tax breaks have been tried a number of times in the past. Sure those corporations will take advantage of those "new" breaks, but with no lasting effect. Besides, they have lots of tricks to get their overseas dollars back into the US, such as making large in-house "loans" to their in-country divisions.
To {Trump's} credit, the one good thing I have seen him do (which some say is not even fully his credit) is rev the economy up again...
"again"? What do you call what Obama did for 8 years, pulling our economy out of Dubya's crapper to bring the stock market up to record highs multiple times? Since Trump took over, the market has just continued on the momentum from Obama. So why aren't you singing the praises of Obama?
All Trump's done has been to try to sabotage the economy with his tariffs and his blowing a huge hole in the deficit with his big welfare give-away to the rich (which he explicitly bragged about to his rich friends at Mar-a-lago). Well, now we are starting to see the effects of what Trump has done. Trump's tariffs have forced American companies to move overseas, resulting in the loss of jobs. For the first time in a decade, my stocks have shown a substantial loss -- news reports is that this downturn has already wiped out all gains made the entire year of 2018. And that is only the beginning.
As for "rev{ving} up the economy", that's not what's happening. The stock market was going up (until a little over a month ago) because the corporations were buying back their stock, resulting in an artificial inflation of their stock value which benefits the CEOs who are paid in part with stock. The extra free government money also went directly to the companies' shareholders. Both outcomes are exactly what the CEOs told everyone that they would do with all that extra money. Virtually none of it went to creating new jobs as promised, nor to pay raises as promised. Yes, some companies gave one-time bonuses, but not raises. And while most companies did not invest their new-found wealth into building up their companies, some did by installing even more automation in order to eliminate jobs.
Also, agriculture got very busy selling off as much crops as they could before Trump's tariffs and phony trade war started.
I retired half-way into January of this year. For decades I have used an Excel spreadsheet to figure out what I need to have withheld for income taxes (both my then-wife and I made about the same salary, but the formulae on the W-4 forms always had me withholding too little (thus threatening me with penalties should that persist) so I had to estimate my taxes in order to ensure that enough was being withheld from my pay. One thing I noticed with the new tax scam was that my federal withholding was less, so my take-home pay was more. Now, I have no idea what my taxes will actually be like this year nor does anybody else, but I'm sure that every working American has looked at their paycheck and has thought that they have gotten a big break -- they have more money! Doesn't anybody remember the Big Tax Break from George Bush I (Dubya's father)? His big tax break was to have less taken out through withholding so everybody's take-home pay would be more, but at the end of the year everybody still owed the same amount of tax. A huge swindle from the guy so out of touch with citizens' reality that he was fascinated by a grocery store's laser scanner, a technology which at that time was already about two decades old.
Basically, this entire GOP tax scam is based on trickle-down economics which has never worked and never will work. We saw this in Gov. Brownback's great Kansas experiment in which he created a trickle-down state economy which brought about economic ruin. At the same time, California faced with economic disaster from 2008 took the opposite approach and has emerged economically strong. In my engineering career, I called that the "Jello Test", as in "the proof of the pudding is in the eating." You have possible solutions to a problem. Run them and see what works. We have tried trickle-down and have found that it does not work. We have tried taxing the rich and that does work. Nu?
Within the past couple days, I saw (as I recall) a statistic that 65% of the US workforce has to work multiple jobs and still do not qualify as "middle class".
Now here's a Gedankenexperiment ("thought experiment") that I have conducted myself. Take the "tax break" and distribute it to amongst the 1% (as has already been done). Each one receives somewhere between $33,000 and $330,000 (the actual amount escapes me at the moment). What do they do with that extra money? Practically nothing, which starves the economy.
OK, in order to establish an economic baseline, let's take the opposite approach of looking at what will happen if, instead of dumping all kinds of money into the hands of the rich, the 1%, we were to distribute that same money to everybody else, the 99%.
As I recall hearing during the tax scam debates, each of the 1% would be getting $33,000. US population is about 308 million, so 1% of that would be about 3 million and 99% would be about 305 million. $33,000 to each of 3 million people adds up to about $100 billion (109). Now distributing that to each citizen equally, both the 1%-ers and the 99%-ers, and each citizen would receive about $325.
What would each person in the 99% do with $325? Spend it! Buy food, clothing, and other goods. What would that do for the economy? Sure, $325 doesn't sound like much, but when 305 million people are all spending $325 each, that adds up to $99 billion being injected into the economy. Now that would really rev up the economy.
But if we instead give all that $100 billion to the 3 million of the 1%, what would they do with that extra $33,000? Virtually nothing. All their basics needs (food, shelter, clothing) have already been met, so they don't any necessary expenses to put that money to. Maybe use it to buy a trinket or an expensive toy (the superyacht market is now booming). Or gamble with it (ie, stock market speculation). Or just shove it into a drawer (metaphorically speaking) and forget they even have it. Whatever they do with it, very little of it would find its way into the economy.
So instead of revving up the economy, Trump is starving it and trying to smother it.
Check out this video by 1%-er Abigail Disney (yes, that Disney): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH1NihRN5cU. She points out the growth of the superyacht industry, especially with CEOs getting so much richer off the inflated value of their stocks.
If we are in the "last days" and the world is destined to go through a time of upheaval and change like no other before, I suppose that by building up our military again, Trump was doing his prophetic thing, but I fear that the rest of the world will end up hating us enough that they all may turn against us.
Well, if it is the End Times, then why care what the rest of the world thinks of us? What part of "End Times" don't you understand?
Of course, the End Times have a long history of constantly happening. I even have a book on the history of the End of the World. We lived through all those previous End Times and there is no reason to assume that our current End Times will be any different.
The only difference is that we can do so much more damage now, so the real danger is the self-fulfilling prophesy. Take somebody who fervently believes that we are in the End Times and place him into a position of power where he could act on his beliefs and you just might be able to bring about the end of the world for real.
Trump is not a believer. The only way he could destroy the world is through sheer stupidity, the way that he's going now. However, Mike Pence (AKA "Mike Dense") is a believer.
Jesus said that the world will hate us because of Him...
Yet another case of self-fulfilling prophesy. Yes, there are people who do hate Christians, but it is very rarely because of Jesus. Rather, Christians are hated for themselves and for how they misbehave and mistreat others.
Unfortunately, a lot of Christians have a martyrdom fantasy that they keep playing out and which generates more hate. They put on a big show of how they are being oppressed and persecuted, which is very rich since they are by large the oppressors and the persecutors.
...whereas I hold out a sliver of hope that maybe all of this literal religious belief is part of the problem rather than the solution.
Yes, it is most definitely part of the problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 1:41 PM Phat has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 455 of 5796 (846815)
01-12-2019 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 453 by JonF
01-11-2019 8:11 PM


Re: More Fake News from Fox
You should (but won't) reflect on that headline and the wide assortment of heavy-industry-strength cutting, boring, bending, and burning tools available in Mexico. Don't forget explosives.
Or tunnels (at his briefing during his Texas trip, we see Border Patrol giving Trump a presentation about the tunnels, while his brain appears to be switched off).
Or drones to carry drugs over the wall. Or just simply having another person on the other side receiving the packets of drugs that you slip through the gaps between the steel posts.
A wall will only stop the casual border crossers. If somebody is determined to get through or past that wall, they will be able to do so relatively easily. That is why we need our own drones or other means of surveillance to patrol every foot of that wall so that we can send in boots on the ground to stop the breaches in progress. Even medieval walls had to be guarded constantly to protect them from being breached -- sappers have been with us for millennia and they've never had better tools than now.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 456 of 5796 (846816)
01-12-2019 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 447 by Percy
01-11-2019 4:12 PM


Re: More Fake News from Fox
Families were not separated under Obama.
Children get separated from their parents all the time at all jurisdiction levels when the parent(s) get(s) incarcerated. When someone with children commits a felony (important point, that) when he/she/they crosses the border illegally, then he/she/they will have to be incarcerated and the children will need to be placed in protective custody (emphasis on "protective"). That's been happening in every administration, including Obama's.
There are two statutes (not being a cop, I do not have them memorized) which deal with crossing the border illegally. One, crossing the first time, is a misdemeanor. The other, crossing after having been kicked out/deported previously, is a felony. The first one, a misdemeanor, does not require incarceration whereas the felony would.
The difference here is that the Trump Administration, though Jeff Sessions, redefined all attempts to cross the border illegally to be felonies, therefore requiring incarceration for all violators which in turn requires family separation for all. If he had not done that, but instead allowed the misdemeanor to remain a misdemeanor, then we would not be having this problem nor this conversation.
Another aspect of this Trumpian clusterfuck are the detention centers which are being run by the Prisons for Profit industry -- remember that Trump has also reversed Obama's ban on prisons for profit. Follow the money. How are those contracts being awarded, whose friends are profiting from this new industry, and who in the Trump Administration is profiting as well? Follow the money, especially since this administration is all about the money.
FWIW, traditionally the proper name for these "detention centers" was "concentration camps" -- eg, during the Spanish Civil War, the French government built concentration camps for the refugees from Spain that they would capture. But ever since the Nazis sullied that term by turning many of them into death camps, we've switched to euphemisms like "detention center", "relocation center/camp", "refugee camp". So now the USA is in the Concentration Camps for Profit business.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 457 of 5796 (846817)
01-12-2019 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 436 by Faith
01-10-2019 11:40 PM


Re: Making America Great and Good Again
Just heard a lengthy clip on Mark Levin's show, of Mike Pompeo, our Secretary of State, giving a speech in Cairo in which he blasted the anti-American stupidities of Obama who sold us down the river at every opportunity.
I heard the part of that speech where Pompeo decried Obama having abandoned our allies and embraced our enemies. A couple weeks ago I caught part of Sean Hannity on a hypocritical tirade where he was trying to sound like a Democrat (eg, rule of law, nobody above the law, preserving the Constitution) instead of a Republican (eg, Trump's above the law, screw the Constitution).
Pompeo's speech rang just as hollow. Abandoning our allies, like Trump abandoning our NATO allies, our Kurdish allies. Embracing our enemies like Trump and the GOP embracing Russia.
Odd, Faith, that you would turn out to be fracking traitorous Russia-loving pinko!

\\He called Obama's policies huge mistakes that are now being corrected as America has returned to our traditional role in the world under this new administration, the role of helper and not aggressor, the role of ally and builder and not occupier, leaving when our work is done.
Uh, no. Trump has no plan and no policy. He doesn't even have the mental capacity to construct the intricate criminal enterprise which is The Trump Organization, especially its criminal tax fraud schemes, but rather it was his father who had set all that up for him. Trump totally lacks any instinct for helping anybody except himself -- just witness his complete disregard for the 800,000 federal employees who have to go without pay because of the current government shutdown that he had unilaterally created.
"leaving when our work is done". Our work in Syria is not done, because ISIS still exists. Our work there is not done until ISIS is eradicated totally. Has that happened? Fuck no, so what is Cadet Bonespurs pulling out now? I have served in my country's military for 35 honorable years! How long have you served? How long has Cadet Bonespurs served?
I had that conversation with a fellow veteran a Sunday ago. Service changes you. Your personal priorities change. You become more focused on your country. Every single time we enlisted, we swore a solemn oath to "protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic". I've estimated that I have sworn that oath about seven times. And I meant it every single time.
So you can see why I have such disdain for Russia-loving pinkos like you.
That's the America I've always known and loved and admired and what the Left has said about us and done to us over the last few decades under its spell of destructive Marxist ideology is despicable and unconscionable.
Nobody says America is perfect but it has been an influence for great good in this world that the Left has been trying to destroy for decades now, often by calling that good evil based on their own evil Marxist inverted morality, and magnifying human foibles that don't represent the nation and are a lot less vicious in any case than the moral failures of the Marxist creeps who attack them.
I had also had the same view of the positive influence of America. But then the Republicans came along and everything suddenly changed. And then Trump came along and everything went completely weird.
suddenly changed.
 
 
You keep going on about Marxism. What do you even know about Marxism? I would wager that you are completely ignorant of what Karl Marx had written, no different from any other mindless Repulicard.

ABE: Message to Congress: FUND THE WALL, YOU HYPOCRITICAL TRAITORS!!!
ABE: Message to Congress: FUND THE GOVERNMENT, YOU HYPOCRITICAL TRAITORS!!!
The Democratic House keeps passing bills to fund the government, but the Senate, through the personage of Mitch McConnell (and to think that that traitor and blackheart could possibly be a clansman of mine! -- though it must have been his Saxon blood that corrupted him) refuses to allow even a single one to be considered by the Senate. We are trying the best that we can go stop the shutdown, but it's the GOP that refuses to allow it to stop.
Rather, it is Trump himself who refuses to allow the shutdown to stop. He is the one who announced that he would create a shutdown if he didn't get his way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkL3fheL2MY (that was a random video grab; you yourself could find many more of the exact same video if you cared to). Approaching Xmas, both the House and the Senate supported funding the government (both were Republican then after all) and Trump supported those bills, but then Trump at the last moment reneged. Why? Because of pressure from Rush Limbaugh and Anne Coulter. Really? Those two extreme right-wing hacks have that much political power?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 436 by Faith, posted 01-10-2019 11:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 458 of 5796 (846818)
01-12-2019 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 452 by Faith
01-11-2019 6:34 PM


Re: More Fake News from Fox
What a stupid idea that drones would be an effective means of border security. All they can do is watch the aliens running across the border, they can't stop them, unless you want them equipped with guns or tear gas or something, they can't arrest them, they can't send them home.
You fucking idiot! Drones give you eyes on the situation. You see aliens running across the border, so you know where to deploy your boots on the ground. Without any drones nor any other kind of surveilence, your "boots on the ground" just end up sitting around in an office with nothing to do.
Have you always been so incredibly STUPID? Or do you have to work on it constantly?
It doesn't matter which news feeds you tap into. Either way, you can see what's happening. Trump is sucking all the cash he can from the government. He has to placate his 30% core, so he puts on a big show about a metaphorical wall. Are you really ready to finance his metaphor? Please consult me as to what a metaphor is, since I doubt that you have any clue even about that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by Faith, posted 01-11-2019 6:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 467 of 5796 (846872)
01-12-2019 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 463 by DrJones*
01-12-2019 4:24 PM


Re: Drones are not enough
and where are these polls published?
Undoubtedly the same place that the nonexistent audit of Trump's inauguration committee is published.
But the safe money is that those polls she's talking about only polled Republicans but the presentation hid that fact. We've seen the White House do that before citing polls that give Trump high approval numbers, but only Republicans had been polled.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 469 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:32 AM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 481 of 5796 (846908)
01-13-2019 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:32 AM


Re: Drones are not enough
The Leftist media are the champs when it comes to fake polls.
How long have you suffered from your inability to distinguish left from right?
Certainly, the Fake News Network (AKA FOX and the other right wingnut propaganda mills) generates a lot of disinformation -- the current White House is a prominent source of disinformation, but there is so much exchange of lies between them and the Fake News Network (and the Kremlin) that it's very difficult to determine the ultimate source. Of course that includes fake polls, such as the one you alluded to in Message 462. One characteristic of those fake polls is that they are rarely identified or described.
In contrast, when actual news services cite a poll, they will identify that poll and who had conducted it and usually also whom were polled.
Yet again, in Message 462 you wrote "Polls you'll never hear about show clearly that a majority of Americans want a wall." Multiple people have requested that you provide information about those "polls". Of course, you have not responded to those requests nor will you ever, because deep down even you realize that your "polls" are complete fakes.

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 492 of 5796 (846943)
01-13-2019 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 437 by Faith
01-11-2019 8:19 AM


I will save Operation Wetback, the bracero program, and the A-TEAM (more completely covered at https://www.npr.org/...grant-farmworkers-with-high-schoolers) for later.
... but there is also the Leftist motive today of flooding the nation with ignorant people who will vote for them, without bothering with citizenship questions, ...
Please explain exactly what you are talking about there. More precisely, how would non-citizens ever be able to vote? That is not a rhetorical question. Please explain to the best of your ability (talk about setting a low bar!) how that would or could ever work. How would that work?
... at a cost of billions in taxpayer money.
Huh? How? Where? Please be as specific as you possibly can (yet again, a very low bar).
Are you talking about the impact of illegal immigrants on Social Security?
Edited by dwise1, : Added NPR report on the A-TEAM

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 493 of 5796 (846944)
01-13-2019 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 491 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:18 PM


Re: A barrier is not necessarily Trump's wall.
Do you think the Border Patrol don't know what's required?
Yes, they would know. And they tried to explain it to Trump.
Does Trump know? Hell no! He's still a fucking moron! And you're still listening to his lies!
Edited by dwise1, : And you're still listening to his lies!

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 495 of 5796 (846947)
01-13-2019 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 435 by Faith
01-10-2019 8:18 PM


Re: More Fake News from Fox
In his speech Trump made it clear that the experts and the people most involved with border problems favor a wall.
Yes, that is what TRUMP says. As usual, time after time, reality says something very different.
In Trump's "ground zero of the immigration crisis", McAllen, TX, there is no sign of any problem on the border, outside of a few tunnels under the barriers which are being dealt with. Everybody feels very safe.
Face it, Faith. Trump has lied to you yet again. Why are you such a glutton for being deceived?
... , INCLUDING BILLIONS TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS CAUSED BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, NOT EVEN COUNTING THE COSTS OF THE DRUG PROBLEMS THEY BRING WITH THEM. THEY ACCOUNT FOR ALL KINDS OF COSTS BECAUSE OF CRIME AND THE IDIOTIC "RIGHT" TO OUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS GIVEN TO THEM FOR WELFARE AND MEDICAL COSTS NOT EVEN GIVEN TO CITIZENS, BECAUSE THEY COME HERE UNABLE TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES, which ought to be a minimal requirement for immigrants.
Uh, please support those statements. That is not rhetorical!
Drug problems? What drug problems? Please be specific! By now we should all know that drugs are an expensive habit, so if they are so dirt poor, then how could they afford drugs? Really? Are you that divorced from reality?
Crime? You already know that US citizens and legal immigrants account for far more criminal activity than illegals. Put yourself in their shoes (granted you are incapable of such empathy since you're a right-wing authoritarian and a "true Christian" who could never walk a mile in another man's shoes (gee, where have I heard that before?)). If you had snuck into somewhere where you didn't belong, would you want to keep a low profile to avoid being spotted, or would you immediately go on a massive crime spree that would be sure to draw attention to you and get you kicked out of there or worse? Duh? I mean, really, just how brain-dead are you Trumpisti?
" ... OUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS GIVEN TO THEM FOR WELFARE AND MEDICAL COSTS NOT EVEN GIVEN TO CITIZENS ... " Just what the hell are you babbling on about? What welfare and medical costs are you talking about? Be very specific! Social security? Medicare? What?
You keep babbling on, regurgitating your right wingnut nonsense. Just what the hell are you talking about? And just how exactly are they "not even given to citizens"?
It's the Left who are the hypocrites. Listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, Shapiro, Mark Levin, Michael Savage for a while. You are so deceived it's pathetic.
I have listened to Limbaugh and Hannity. A couple of idiots. All Limbaugh could do was to mock the other side with absolutely no substantive content. Hannity just tried to twist everything around.
Now, you watch MSNBC for a day! There is a boatload of information about Trump that the Fake News Network has been keeping from you. If you have the great fortune to have Malcolm Nance on, then listen to him. A fellow chief (Senior Chief) who has worked in intelligence for 35 years, the first time I heard him speak (on the radio about the organization of Al Queda) I could tell that he knew what he was talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Faith, posted 01-10-2019 8:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 502 of 5796 (846978)
01-14-2019 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by Percy
01-14-2019 10:30 AM


Re: A barrier is not necessarily Trump's wall.
Faith should note that this is an example of how to report a poll. This Washington Post article names the poll, presents the overall number, then breaks those numbers down by group (eg in this case, Republicans and Democrats), and finally it provides you a link to the poll itself so that you can examine it yourself. I see the same type and level of reporting all the time on news programs both TV and radio (though providing the link on radio is problematic).
In contrast, Faith is echoing what she's getting from the White House and the Fake News Network, which are vague statements of "(unnamed) polls say ... ". Of course, if somebody knows of the Fake News Network doing proper reporting of polls, please let me know.

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 506 of 5796 (847011)
01-15-2019 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 504 by Percy
01-15-2019 7:49 AM


Re: Fox News Says Trump is Getting the Blame
Support for a wall has grown to 42%, though I couldn't find how the question was phrased.
Yes, you can find that. That's the Washington Post-ABC poll reported in the Washington Post article that you reported on, quoted from, and linked to in Message 500. That article in turn links you to the poll itself with the questions presented for your inspection.

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
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Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 527 of 5796 (847281)
01-20-2019 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Faith
01-20-2019 11:58 AM


Re: George Will misses the point
Faith, there is a job waiting for you in the Trump White House, plus you will save the soul of a poor suffering woman.
Look into the eyes of Sarah Huckabee Sanders and you can see how severely she is suffering from serving the Beast. Even atheists can see her excruciating pain as her soul is shriveling up. You can volunteer to replace her and take her job. You can do it because you gleefully repeat his lies, as you repeatedly demonstrate, and you are immune to the detrimental effects of serving the Beast because your soul is already dead, as you repeatedly demonstrate. Take her job and rescue her from her torture and we will see on her face the look of pure joy, the same look we saw on Sean Spicer's face as he made his own escape.
... desire for a border wall and protection against dangerous immigrants, ...
But why don't we hear him say anything about wanting to build a wall on our northern border with Canada? I've been there and there is no wall. There are twice as many Canadians here illegally than there are Mexicans and Central Americans, so the threat of illegal immigration is far greater in the north than in the south. We have stopped far more potential terrorists on the northern border than on the southern border, so the threat of dangerous immigrants is far greater in the north than in the south -- eg, the terrorists planning an attack on New Years Eve of 2000 were entering the country from Canada, not Mexico. Clearly, we need much more protection on our northern border, so why is Trump ignoring that problem? Why isn't ICE busy rounding up Canadians? Why are they ignoring the far greater problem?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 11:58 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 8:42 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 534 of 5796 (847332)
01-21-2019 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 530 by Faith
01-20-2019 8:42 PM


Re: George Will misses the point
Canadians don't murder Americans ...
Really? Canadian illegals are as likely as anybody else to commit murder, though the fact still remains that Americans are more likely to murder Americans than are illegals of any origin.
... and don't come here without means of support so that they become dependent on our welfare system.
You keep saying that nonsense, so please tell us finally what welfare? What welfare programs are they supposed to be using? And since you have in the past claimed that it's a welfare program that citizens are unable to get, then tell us exactly what welfare program you are talking about! I mean, you're so absolutely sure about that welfare, so you must know what it is.
And why would you say that Canadians aren't lining up that same fantasy welfare program of yours? And why do you think the Canadian illegals don't come in without means of support? Those Canadian illegals are working here, taking jobs away from Americans! And because there are so many more of them than there are Mexican and Central American illegals, Canadian illegals pose a far greater threat to American wage earners!
Mexican and Central American illegals quickly find work to support themselves, willing to do almost anything, including the infamous "jobs that Americans refuse to do" (see below). I very much doubt that Canadian illegals would be willing to take on those jobs, which would make Canadian illegals far less able to support themselves and hence more of a burden on society (which we still need for you to reveal to us). So yet again, Canadian illegals are the far greater problem.
So why does this administration not care one whit about this far greater danger? For that matter, there's also a sizable population of Irish illegals whom this administration also don't care about. Quite the opposite, actually, since one of the last things Paul Ryan tried to do on his way out was to try to get more visas issued to the Irish.
... but the problems the southern illegals bring with them that cost Americans money and even lives ...
We already know what BS that last part is, since it's Americans who are costing us far more lives. But costing us money? What money? Please be as specific as possible!
And what about the benefits we derived from illegal immigrants? What about the businesses that they support? What about the taxes that they pay? Especially the ones that they could never benefit from because of their status (or rather lack thereof). If we could weigh their contributions against their costs, which way would the scales tip?
"Jobs that Americans refuse to do"
Remember the 1964 A-TEAM (Athletes in Temporary Employment as Agricultural Manpower -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program#Aftermath and https://www.npr.org/...grant-farmworkers-with-high-schoolers. When we closed the bracero program the farmers had no farm workers to pick their crops for them. Despite the opponents of the bracero program decrying how they were taking jobs away from Americans, Americans didn't rush in to grab those jobs. Seeing two different problems -- lack of farm workers and lack of summer jobs for teenagers -- politicians decided that combining the two problems would provide the solutions. So in 1964 they recruited high school athletes to do farm work. They got a lot of responses, though coaches would not allow athletes enter that program because they needed to make practice during the summer. The students were appalled at the extremely bad living and working conditions, the same ones that the braceros had had to endure. Many students deserted within the first few weeks (some after only a few days) and they staged strikes in some of the camps. The program was a failure and was cancelled after the first summer.
Do the name, "Salem, Ohio", ring a bell? -- https://www.theguardian.com/...n-raid-meatpacking-plant-ohio. The Fresh Mark meat packing plant, a major industry that the town depends on, employed many Guatemalan illegals. Not only did Fresh Mark benefit from their hard work, but they and their families were a contributing part of the community. On 19 June 2018, ICE staged a massive raid on the plant arresting 146 workers. The effects on the town were devastating. The plant continued to operate, but at a reduced capacity which cost them revenue. Many Guatemalans left the town out of fear, so the businesses in town suffered from the loss of many of their customers. The plant has tried to recruit workers, which should be easy with all the Americans flooding in to fill those jobs. That hasn't been the case. On the radio, it was reported that Syrian refugees were filling those jobs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 8:42 PM Faith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5982
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 541 of 5796 (847364)
01-21-2019 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Percy
01-21-2019 2:55 PM


Re: Media silence on murders by illegals, and a couple of fake news reports too
But the evidence we do have says that illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lesser rate than Americans.
Maybe an analogy might start to get through to her (we can always dream, can't we?).
A stereotypical teenage infraction is/was to sneak into movie theaters to watch the movie for free. If they are caught, then they will be kicked out at the least and arrested or permanently banned at the worst. So if a person is in a theater illegally, he would be highly motivated to ensure that nobody notices him. The last thing that he would want to do would be to act in any manner that could draw attention to him, such as being loud and disruptive or picking fights. He would be highly motivated to act as the model movie viewer in every way.
Another analogy would be a real-life spy. The best cover for a spy would be a drab person, a nobody that nobody ever notices. Go in all flashy like Bond and you wouldn't last a day.
Similarly, if you're in a country illegally then you would want to avoid encounters with the authorities. You would not want to draw the attention of the police. You would follow the law and behave yourself all the time. You would even observe all traffic laws, especially the speed limits (hence driving slower than everybody else, a frequent irritant in Southern California -- we see it all the time).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Percy, posted 01-21-2019 2:55 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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