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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News (formerly In the News)
Taq
Member
Posts: 7774
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 1831 of 2127 (852357)
05-09-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1793 by Faith
05-08-2019 5:16 PM


Re: Racist actions?
Faith writes:

I suppose the difference must be that most of those are able to take care of themselves and don't become a drain on our taxpayer dollars.

They come here for work. Just ask the Trump Organization who had many illegal aliens employed for years, and even helped them get the paperwork they needed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1793 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 5:16 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1832 by JonF, posted 05-09-2019 12:23 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4748
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1832 of 2127 (852359)
05-09-2019 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1831 by Taq
05-09-2019 11:45 AM


Re: Racist actions?
ITYM falsify the papers they needed.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1831 by Taq, posted 05-09-2019 11:45 AM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 3459
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1833 of 2127 (852367)
05-09-2019 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1832 by JonF
05-09-2019 12:23 PM


Re: Racist actions?
And then taking those papers away from the workers, keeping them locked up in the office. That way the workers are forced to stay there. Common practice in human trafficking.

I wonder if anyone has started to investigate them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1832 by JonF, posted 05-09-2019 12:23 PM JonF has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31334
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1834 of 2127 (852369)
05-09-2019 3:58 PM


Cost of Illegal Immigration
New FAIR Study: Illegal Immigration Costs $116 billion

The report, “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers,” examines the cost of illegal immigration through a detailed analysis of federal, state and local programs that are available to the nation’s illegal immigrant population, their U.S.-born children, or accessed via frawd. The study tallies the impact on education, medical, justice/enforcement, welfare and other government programs.

The Cost of a Border Wall vs. the Cost of Illegal Immigration

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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 Message 1838 by Theodoric, posted 05-09-2019 5:42 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1840 by dwise1, posted 05-09-2019 6:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7774
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 1835 of 2127 (852370)
05-09-2019 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1834 by Faith
05-09-2019 3:58 PM


Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration
What is the equivalent cost for citizens who make an equivalent wage? This doesn't sound like the cost of illegal immigration but the cost of being poor.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2153
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(2)
Message 1836 of 2127 (852371)
05-09-2019 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1835 by Taq
05-09-2019 4:12 PM


Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration
What is the equivalent cost for citizens who make an equivalent wage?

I would love to see a cost benefit analysis of Faith. And Trump.

This doesn't sound like the cost of illegal immigration but the cost of being poor.

Right wing assholes think poverty is a character flaw.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1835 by Taq, posted 05-09-2019 4:12 PM Taq has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6137
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1837 of 2127 (852375)
05-09-2019 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1834 by Faith
05-09-2019 3:58 PM


Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration
I knew I had heard of this group. Unabashed racists.

quote:
In August 2018, FAIR's former press secretary, Joe Gomez, filed a complaint with the Washington, D.C. Office of Human Rights, alleging racist, xenophobic, and ableist harassment at FAIR. Gomez alleges that he was called a "spic" by a fellow employee, that FAIR's communications director would often address him with Spanish phrases and that other colleagues would sometimes fake a Hispanic accent. He also accused FAIR's president of asking Gomez to raise his arm (he suffered from anxiety that caused him to shake) and laughed while Gomez's arm shook.

SPLC classifies them as a hate group. Anti-Catholic right up your alley. I will go through there study and see what facts they actually use. Should be a hoot.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1834 by Faith, posted 05-09-2019 3:58 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6137
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 1838 of 2127 (852376)
05-09-2019 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1834 by Faith
05-09-2019 3:58 PM


Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration
Cato institute, a very non-liberal organization, has already destroyed this study.
quote:
FAIR’s report reaches that conclusion by vastly overstating the costs of illegal immigration, undercounting the tax revenue they generate, inflating the number of illegal immigrants, counting millions of U.S. citizens as illegal immigrants, and by concocting a method of estimating the fiscal costs that is rejected by all economists who work on this subject.

https://www.cato.org/...gal-immigration-study-fatally-flawed

I seem to remember you presenting this in the past and destroying it then too. Recycling old debunked arguments?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1834 by Faith, posted 05-09-2019 3:58 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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JonF
Member
Posts: 4748
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1839 of 2127 (852377)
05-09-2019 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1838 by Theodoric
05-09-2019 5:42 PM


Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration
Thanks, I was thinking of checking out the Cato Institute on that.

They ain't liberals, Faith. Strongly conservative and libertarian. Founded by one of the Koch brothers. They also are big on truth. The immigrant immunization statistics I showed you came from them.

"The mission of the Cato Institute is to originate, disseminate, and increase understanding of public policies based on the principles of individual liberty, limited government, free markets, and peace. Our vision is to create free, open, and civil societies founded on libertarian principles."


This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 3459
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 1840 of 2127 (852380)
05-09-2019 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1834 by Faith
05-09-2019 3:58 PM


Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration
FAIR, "Federation for American Immigration Reform":

quote:
The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a non-profit tax exempt organization in the United States that self-identifies as an organization seeking to reduce both legal and illegal immigration.[6] The group publishes position papers, organizes events, and runs campaigns in order to influence US immigration policies. The Southern Poverty Law Center classifies FAIR as a hate group with close ties to white supremacist groups.

FAIR was founded in 1979 by the ophthalmologist John Tanton, former historian of labor movements and director of the Center for the Study of Democratic Institutions Otis L. Graham, Jr. and Sidney Swensrud, a former chairman of Gulf Oil and former governing board member of Planned Parenthood.

Tanton became leader of several anti-immigration groups and held white supremacist beliefs while he led the organization.


Instead of this Nazi propaganda piece, we need to see an actual study which accurately identifies and tallies both the costs and the revenue contributions of immigrants, including illegals. Remember, you need to look at both sides of the ledger, revenues as well as expenses. And we're not going to get that kind of information from your Nazi friends.


Honor, Courage, Commitment
(US Navy)

A Christian once asked what I as an atheist believed in. My spontaneous and totally honest answer was sounded corny, but it was true: "Truth, Justice, and the American Way." That's still my answer today.

GOP Values: Hypocrisy, Corruption, Greed, Lying, Cheating, Voter Suppression, Election Fraud, Conspiring with the Enemy

" ... how hard can that be, to say that Nazis are bad?!"
(Barack Obama)

"How are we still fighting Nazis today?"
(Daisy Johnson, S5E15)

"Nance's Law: Coincidence takes a lot of planning."
(Malcolm Nance)

It is a well-known fact that reality has a definite liberal bias.
(Steven Colbert on NPR)


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 1841 by JonF, posted 05-09-2019 7:51 PM dwise1 has not yet responded
 Message 1843 by Taq, posted 05-10-2019 1:14 PM dwise1 has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4748
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1841 of 2127 (852392)
05-09-2019 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1840 by dwise1
05-09-2019 6:43 PM


Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration
They did look at revenue but severely underestimated it. From the Cato article linked above:

quote:
FAIR counts the benefits consumed by the U.S. born American citizen children of illegal immigrants. This means that FAIR also doesn’t count the taxes paid by these U.S. born citizens when they start working. Counting the benefits consumed but ignoring the tax revenue they pay (or will do so in the future) is one way FAIR gets such a negative result for this report....

FAIR also undercounts the tax revenue generated by illegal immigrants. The first and most egregious undercount is that they ignore how increased housing demand raises the value of all real estate per county which also raises property tax revenue. According to research by economist Jacob Vigdor, each immigrant raises the value of all homes in their county by 11.5 cents. {I think this and the ensuing calculations are poorly justified - JonF}...

FAIR also ignores the incidence of taxation when it comes to calculating their Social Security and Medicare contributions. In law, employers and employees are supposed to evenly split Social Security and Medicare contributions but the reality is more complicated....

FAIR also ignores the incidence of taxation when it comes to calculating their Social Security and Medicare contributions. In law, employers and employees are supposed to evenly split Social Security and Medicare contributions but the reality is more complicated.

FAIR probably undercounts sales tax revenue. I write “probably” because one of the sentences on page 54 of their report does not make any sense grammatically or mathematically.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 1840 by dwise1, posted 05-09-2019 6:43 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4748
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1842 of 2127 (852398)
05-09-2019 8:08 PM


ESSENTIALLY no obstruction
Trump softens his characterization of Mueller report findings to 'essentially no obstruction'

There's video at the link. Wonder if someone sane got a tiny particle of reality into his head.


  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7774
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 1843 of 2127 (852422)
05-10-2019 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1840 by dwise1
05-09-2019 6:43 PM


Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration
dwise1 writes:

Instead of this Nazi propaganda piece, we need to see an actual study which accurately identifies and tallies both the costs and the revenue contributions of immigrants, including illegals. Remember, you need to look at both sides of the ledger, revenues as well as expenses. And we're not going to get that kind of information from your Nazi friends.

I think it would fair to say that someone with kids who is making 18k a year is going to use more in public programs than they pay in taxes. This is true for both illegal immigrants and legal citizens. This is just how our tax code and public programs are set up. If all those illegal immigrants left and those jobs were filled by citizens then the same problem would exist.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1840 by dwise1, posted 05-09-2019 6:43 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1844 by dwise1, posted 05-10-2019 2:57 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3459
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 1844 of 2127 (852431)
05-10-2019 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1843 by Taq
05-10-2019 1:14 PM


Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration
If all those illegal immigrants left and those jobs were filled by citizens then the same problem would exist.

In general, yes, but I think it would be worse with citizens. Citizens would be more eligible for benefits, so if we keep all the numbers the same (ie, number of and size and composition of families in that bracket that would need benefits, same amount of tax revenues being generated by those families) then we would expect to see more citizens receiving benefits because they qualify for them than illegal immigrants who do not qualify for benefits. Same amount of money going into the system and more coming out results in higher net losses. Accounting 101 (which I did take in 1970).

In terms of taxes, we should point out that cities' and counties' major sources of income are from property tax and (for cities especially) business licenses and taxes (also additional sales tax in some cities). Neither low-income group, illegal immigrants and legal citizens alike), pay any of those directly (outside of additional sales tax), so "studies" such as Faith's Nazi piece could try to claim that illegal immigrants take advantage of our public schools without paying for any part of that system, but then the same could be argued for poor legal citizens and that argument would be false in both cases. Part of every renter's rent payment is used by the property owner to pay his property taxes, so every renter does still pay into the taxes for public schools albeit indirectly.

So my point is that when these kinds of arguments are used, they must take all factors into account and must do so honestly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1843 by Taq, posted 05-10-2019 1:14 PM Taq has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4748
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 1845 of 2127 (852433)
05-10-2019 4:41 PM


Our President
Trump accused of taking a child's ball to cheat and win a championship at one of his golf clubs

quote:
Trump had missed the club championship at his Trump International course in Florida while meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in Singapore.

About a month later, Trump was back at Trump International when he saw Ted Virtue, an investor who is a member of the club and had won the championship while Trump was away. Virtue was playing with his son, who was about 10 or 11 years old, according to Reilly, when Trump rode his cart over to them at the 12th hole.

Trump joked that Virtue won his championship only because he had been out of town and then challenged him to play the final six holes of the course for the title, according to the story Reilly told to Vox. Then things really got weird.

Reilly, who verified the story with members of the club, told the following story to Vox's Illing:

Ted tries to laugh it off, but Trump is dead serious. Trump says, "We're going to play these last six holes for the championship." And Ted's like, "I'm playing with my son, but thanks anyway." But Trump says, "No, your son can play too." So they end up playing.

They get to a hole with a big pond on it. Both Ted and his son hit the ball on the green, and Trump hits his in the water. By the time they get to the hole, Trump is lining up the kid's ball. Only now it's his ball and the caddie has switched it. The kid's like, "Daddy, that's my ball."

But Trump's caddie goes, "No, this is the president's ball; your ball went in the water." Ted and his son look at each other confused, not sure if this is really happening. And Trump's caddie says, "This is the president's ball. I don't know what to tell you."

According to Golf.com, Trump told Virtue that they could be cochampions, but on Trump's locker at the club, his plaque makes no indication that he shares the title.


Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States and Faith's hero.

{So many people have attested to his golf cheating that there is no question he does it. But It's OK If You're A Republican, right Faith?}


Replies to this message:
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