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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News (formerly In the News)
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1841
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 1891 of 2127 (852633)
05-14-2019 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1887 by Faith
05-14-2019 6:27 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
The report had no authority whatever to "exonerate" anyone so stating that it didn't do so is just manipulative puff.

Mueller had the authority to investigate Russian influence in the 2016 election and any other crimes he came across, including obstruction of justice. He detailed 10 incidents of the president trying to disrupt his investigation and concluded that he could not right out say that those attempts were Not obstruction of justice.

Again, if Mueller had found such a cause HE WOULD HAVE BROUGHT CHARGES.

Nope, it is DOJ policy (based on legal research I'm sure but never actually tested in court) that a sitting president can't be indicted

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1887 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 6:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1841
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 1892 of 2127 (852634)
05-14-2019 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1890 by Faith
05-14-2019 6:32 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
The facts of the report exonerate him.

the facts where he ordered white house counsel McGahn to fire Mueller and then when McGahn refused he ordered McGahn to lie about the first order, an order McGahn also wisely refused.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1890 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 6:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2153
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 1893 of 2127 (852635)
05-14-2019 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1883 by Faith
05-14-2019 5:43 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
Faith writes:

Mueller's report DID exonerate Trump, of both "collusion" and obstruction of justice. Because that was the only point of such a report, to bring charges where cause was found. Cause was not found, that's the same as saying the report exonerated him.

And yet...

‘Multiple Felony Charges’: Ex-Federal Prosecutors Call Out Trump’s Conduct

quote:
More than 400 former federal prosecutors across Republican and Democratic administrations issued a statement Monday saying President Donald Trump would face an obstruction of justice charge were he not the sitting U.S. president.

quote:
The former prosecutors said in their statement that “these are not matters of close professional judgment.” Defenses could be raised, the letter said, and “every accused person is presumed innocent and it is always the government’s burden to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. But, to look at these facts and say that a prosecutor could not probably sustain a conviction for obstruction of justice — the standard set out in Principles of Federal Prosecution — runs counter to logic and our experience.”

This is what they call a temporary technicality.

Trump is a criminal and a con man. You are proof that he is accomplished as a con man. His own history and his own words, before and after he entered the 2016 presidential race are evidence. He is so stupid he commits many of his crimes in public, showing his contempt for you and for the law and for all law enforcement. He has never been held accountable for any of his past actions, but that was before he started betraying the nation. The only way he can avoid his eventual just reward is to use the "Ken Lay get out of jail card."

Faith writes:

Mueller's report DID exonerate Trump, of both "collusion"

And yet there were more than 100 contacts with the Russians and hundreds of lies told about contacts with the Russians...why is that?

People were convicted for lying about Russian contacts.

There may not have been charges of collusion but they sure as fuck showed collusion, but more importantly they showed that the whole fucking Trump organization and campaign were so stupid they were played by the Russians like a whole fucking orchestra. It turns out Putin and Co. are far better con men than trump and co.

And the con continues.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1883 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 5:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1894 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 7:10 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded
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Faith
Member
Posts: 31333
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1894 of 2127 (852636)
05-14-2019 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1893 by Tanypteryx
05-14-2019 6:39 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
This is ridiculous. The whole point of the Muelller investigation was to find cause for criminal charges. They found lots of stuff that had nothing to do with Trump and nothing to do with the campaign and they dealt with it. They prosecuted whatever they found to prosecute. They found the RUSSIANS at fault concerning the campaign but not Trump and not any of his people. We should be able to conclude that there was nothing about the Russian contacts that was in any way against the law so why are you making an issue of it? Why is anyone still making an issue of it? Mueller found no fault, why is anybody else? Either they are clueless about the legal situation or they just want to keep up the fiction that somehow Trump is at fault for something even if they have to make it up.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 1896 by AZPaul3, posted 05-14-2019 8:53 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1898 by 14174dm, posted 05-14-2019 10:21 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6575
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 1895 of 2127 (852640)
05-14-2019 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1889 by Faith
05-14-2019 6:30 PM


Re: David Cole on the Mueller Report
I thought it was agood article myself. One of the better short discussions of the Mueller report.

If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1889 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 6:30 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3965
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1896 of 2127 (852642)
05-14-2019 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1894 by Faith
05-14-2019 7:10 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
The whole point of the Muelller investigation was to find cause for criminal charges.

Shades of Watergate. Remember the "un-indicted co-conspirator"?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1894 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 7:10 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16475
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1897 of 2127 (852643)
05-14-2019 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1870 by Faith
05-14-2019 2:21 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
Faith writes:

We disagree.


You can disagree with the facts as much as you like. You won't change them.

Welcome back, Faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1870 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 2:21 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
14174dm
Member
Posts: 146
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(3)
Message 1898 of 2127 (852645)
05-14-2019 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1894 by Faith
05-14-2019 7:10 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
Have you actually read anything from Mueller's report?

A internet search for "Mueller report text" will pull up a large list of sites with the full report. I am trying to copy/paste quotes but can't get the software to cooperate.

I would recommend reading the Introduction to Volume II (pg 213 of 448).

Mueller makes a series of statements that lead to why he can't say Trump did or did not obstruct justice. His arguments are

1. Office of Legal Counsel issued opinion that sitting President cannot be indicted by Justice Department as undermining performance of executive branch.
2. While the President can't be indicted while in office, he can be investigated. The Mueller investigation took place while information was fresh.
3. "...we determined not to apply as approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes." Basically they intentionally avoided saying Trump committed crimes since he couldn't have a court case to legally defend himself (See point 1.)

4. (the BIG POINT) "...if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgement."

Summary - Mueller can't indict sitting President nor can he accuse him since President can't defend self in trial. Facts show Mueller can't exonerate Trump.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1894 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 7:10 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 1908 by JonF, posted 05-15-2019 9:07 AM 14174dm has not yet responded
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 3459
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 1899 of 2127 (852646)
05-14-2019 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1898 by 14174dm
05-14-2019 10:21 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
Summary - Mueller can't indict sitting President nor can he accuse him since President can't defend self in trial. Facts show Mueller can't exonerate Trump.

Even in his act of misrepresenting the Mueller Report https://www.nytimes.com/...s/barr-letter-mueller-report.html, Barr himself quoted the Report thus:

quote:
The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

So then even Barr explicitly points out that the Mueller Report does not exonerate Trump.

So then who knows where Trump ever got "the Mueller Report totally exonerates me!" from. Just more evidence that Trump is a "fucking moron" (a cabinet member's assessment of him early on).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1898 by 14174dm, posted 05-14-2019 10:21 PM 14174dm has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2153
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 1900 of 2127 (852647)
05-14-2019 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1899 by dwise1
05-14-2019 11:21 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
Just more evidence that Trump is a "fucking moron" (a cabinet member's assessment of him early on).

But then he didn't want to own it. I think some others expressed that same name.

I wish Biden would just publicly hang that name on him, and all the Dems start calling him that publicly. Trump is a Fucking Moron, stupidity and ignorance with a petty, vengeful soul.

F'ing Moron works, too.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1899 by dwise1, posted 05-14-2019 11:21 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4748
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1901 of 2127 (852654)
05-15-2019 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1882 by Faith
05-14-2019 5:38 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
There were all the elements for an obstruction charge. As has already been pointed out Mueller did not indict because DOJ policy does not allow indicting a sitting President.

In the report he made it clear that's the only reason he didn't seek an indictment. I"ve read enough of it for myself to know that's true.

Of course you'd never hear that truth from your sources.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1882 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 5:38 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1912 by Faith, posted 05-15-2019 3:03 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4748
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1902 of 2127 (852655)
05-15-2019 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1883 by Faith
05-14-2019 5:43 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
Nope, as usual. It"s not one or the other.

He didn"t find sufficient evidence for a collusion indictment. He did find some evidence. So he didn't exonerate anyone. .

The obstruction lie has been covered in this thread already. Denying it doesn't affect reality.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1883 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 5:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4748
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 1903 of 2127 (852656)
05-15-2019 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1889 by Faith
05-14-2019 6:30 PM


Re: David Cole on the Mueller Report
Nope. It's against DOJ policy to indict a sitting President,no matter how criminal he is.

You're pretty slow on the uptake.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1889 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 6:30 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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JonF
Member
Posts: 4748
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1904 of 2127 (852658)
05-15-2019 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1890 by Faith
05-14-2019 6:32 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
Then why did you say the repoft exonerated him?

There's a lot of possibilities you're ignoring between charges and exoneration He explicitly would have brought charges except for DOJ policy, not for any lack of evidence.

Repeating latantly false and long*debunked claims doesn't change reality.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1890 by Faith, posted 05-14-2019 6:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4748
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 1905 of 2127 (852659)
05-15-2019 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1893 by Tanypteryx
05-14-2019 6:39 PM


Re: Calumniating Barr: the latest tactic
917 former Federal prosecutors.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1893 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-14-2019 6:39 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
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