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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2041 of 5796 (853090)
05-22-2019 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 2014 by Faith
05-21-2019 8:00 PM


Re: The Carter Page FISA Warrant
Faith writes:
If the court was deprived of necessary information they would have falsely determined that there was legal justification for the surveillance.
If I had a billion dollars I could buy a yacht. "Ifs" aren't worth much.
Hillary paid for the dossier. That would prove political motivation I would think.
It doesn't. Hillary was paying for real information, so Steele wasn't politically motivated. Steele was essentially being paid to be a private investigator.
I believe there is evidence that it was known to be a fraud before the FISA warrants were acquired that may be made public soon. We'll have to wait and see about that.
As others have mentioned, the Steele dossier wasn't really that important and was certainly not the only document presented to the FISA courts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2014 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 8:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2042 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 11:07 AM Taq has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2042 of 5796 (853092)
05-22-2019 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 2041 by Taq
05-22-2019 11:02 AM


Re: The Carter Page FISA Warrant
If the Steele dossier wasn't the only document presented to the FISA courts I don't know of any other aimed at the Trump campaign, only the one whose content is unidentified for some reason that is supposedly aimed at the Hillary campaign.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2041 by Taq, posted 05-22-2019 11:02 AM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2045 by PaulK, posted 05-22-2019 12:26 PM Faith has not replied
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 2043 of 5796 (853097)
05-22-2019 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 2028 by Faith
05-22-2019 10:12 AM


Re: The Carter Page FISA Warrant
But that is not what you have claimed is it.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2028 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 10:12 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2044 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 12:12 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2044 of 5796 (853104)
05-22-2019 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2043 by Theodoric
05-22-2019 11:33 AM


Re: The Carter Page FISA Warrant
Nitpickery reigns around here. Any justification for making a lyer out of your opponent. I'd heard it was from Russia. So somebody correcting me to say "a large part of it"* is from Russia doesn't change my basic statement, it rather corroborates it after all the flat denials. Sheesh.
*changed "largely" to "a large part of it is" because of JonF's complaint below.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2043 by Theodoric, posted 05-22-2019 11:33 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2047 by JonF, posted 05-22-2019 12:52 PM Faith has replied
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 Message 2049 by JonF, posted 05-22-2019 1:07 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 2045 of 5796 (853109)
05-22-2019 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2042 by Faith
05-22-2019 11:07 AM


Re: The Carter Page FISA Warrant
quote:
If the Steele dossier wasn't the only document presented to the FISA courts I don't know of any other aimed at the Trump campaign, only the one whose content is unidentified for some reason that is supposedly aimed at the Hillary campaign.
And the relevance is ? Only documents relevant to the warrant would be presented. And the warrant was for surveillance on Carter Page. Not for spying on the Trump campaign as you claim.
If you can’t even understand what the warrant was for you really aren’t capable of discussing the issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2042 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 11:07 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 189 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 2046 of 5796 (853111)
05-22-2019 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2042 by Faith
05-22-2019 11:07 AM


Re: The Carter Page FISA Warrant
As I posted earlier and is widely known, no dossier was the foundation for the FISA warrant on Page.
As the Mueller report says in the introduction to volume 1:
quote:
In late July 2016, soon after WikiLeaks's first release of stolen documents, a foreign government [Australia - JonF] contacted the FBI about a May 2016 encounter with Trump Campaign foreign policy advisor George Papadopoulos. Papadopoulos had suggested to a representative of that foreign government that the Trump Campaign had received indications from the Russian government that it could assist the Campaign through the anonymous release of information damaging to Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. That information prompted the FBI on July 31, 2016, to open an investigation into whether individuals associated with the Trump Campaign were coordinating with the Russian government in its interference activities.
Got it now?
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2042 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 11:07 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 189 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 2047 of 5796 (853112)
05-22-2019 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 2044 by Faith
05-22-2019 12:12 PM


Re: The Carter Page FISA Warrant
Details are critical.
I note you didn't use one of the flat-out lies I identified and debunked in detail as the example. Curious, that.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2044 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 12:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2050 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 1:52 PM JonF has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 2048 of 5796 (853113)
05-22-2019 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 2044 by Faith
05-22-2019 12:12 PM


Re: The Carter Page FISA Warrant
Some of the information Michael Steele presented cam from Russian sources. The dossier did not originate in Russia. To make such a claim is to not be accurate and confuses the facts. Accuracy is not nit pickery. It is presenting the actual facts not some fever dream manipulation of the facts.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2044 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 12:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 189 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 2049 of 5796 (853114)
05-22-2019 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 2044 by Faith
05-22-2019 12:12 PM


Re: The Carter Page FISA Warrant
Oh, please don't make up quotes."Largely" isn't close to what I said. "A large part (not all) of the information in the document came from Russian sources."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2044 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 12:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2050 of 5796 (853117)
05-22-2019 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 2047 by JonF
05-22-2019 12:52 PM


Re: The Carter Page FISA Warrant
Please don't resort to innuendo, quote what you are referring to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2047 by JonF, posted 05-22-2019 12:52 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2051 by JonF, posted 05-22-2019 2:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 189 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 2051 of 5796 (853124)
05-22-2019 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 2050 by Faith
05-22-2019 1:52 PM


Re: The Carter Page FISA Warrant
Please don't resort to innuendo, quote what you are referring to.
Please don't resort to innuendo, quote what you are referring to. You're the champion of not quoting and you didn't quote in the message in which you requested quoting. Irony much?
I was composing on my phone. It's a mighty pain in the ass selecting and copying text. I figured you could remember what I posted. Turns out you did. But here you are:

Details are critical.
I note you didn't use one of the flat-out lies I identified and debunked in detail as the example. Curious, that.

I keep hearing it was from Russia. If not I'll find out soon enough.
You should know already, it's been out in the open for many months. The dossier came from Fusion GPS, a US corporation based in Washington DC. The author was Christopher Steele. A large part (not all) of the information in the document came from Russian sources.

She had classified information on her personal server. That is against the law, i.e. criminal.
Yes in some circumstances, no in other circumstances. Gosh, your sources didn't explain that? Could they be lying by omission?
There are two statutes that cold apply in this case. 18 U.S. Code ”1924. Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material:
quote:
(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.
Note the word "knowingly". That's important.
18 U.S. Code ”798. Disclosure of classified information:
quote:
(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information”
(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
(4) obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes”
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
"Knowingly and willfully". Notice a pattern?
Hillary had three classified emails on her server.
Emails containing classified information must start with a header stating so. That header, for whatever reason, was not on those three emails.
Classified information in emails must be marked with, for example, (c) for confidential information. The classified information in those emails wa so marked, but it was way down in the chain of replies and forwards. I don't know if you have any relevant experience, but it is very rarer for anyone to go down through that chain instead of just reading the top message. Since the required header was not present to alert her and Hillary was a very busy person, it's virtually certain she did not see that (c).
So. not knowingly and willfully, unless you can prove otherwise, which ain't gonna happen. Not a crime.

She went to great pains to erase her emails and wreck the computer to destroy the evidence. That is obstruction of justice.
Not particularly great pains.
In early 2014 Hillary turned over approximately 30,000 emails her staff had determined to be work-related, retaining the ones they determined to be personal.
In December 2014 she decided she did not need any private emails older than 60 days, and instructed the server company to re-set her retention period to 60 days and delete older emails. Nobody ever checked to see if this was done. It wasn't. Couldn't have been that important, right?
On March 4, 2105 her emails were subpoenaed.
About three weeks later a technician at the server provider realized that the December order had not been carried out. He re-set the retention period and deleted the older emails. He ran a software program called BleachBit intending to prevent recovery of any of the deleted emails. Nobody dd any physical damage to the server.
In the ensuing few months the FBI recovered all or most of the deleted emails from the undamaged server; it's not clear exactly how many. No evidence of criminal activity was found. A few work-related emails were found.
Three elements are required to prove obstruction of justice:
  • There was a pending federal judicial proceeding;
  • The defendant knew of the proceeding; and
  • The defendant had corrupt intent to interfere with or attempted to interfere with the proceeding.
Do you really think that anyone can prove Hillary had corrupt intent? Your opinion doesn't count.
Anything else?

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2052 of 5796 (853152)
05-23-2019 1:56 AM


A Bit of Fake News
Sorry I'm not going to remember the details very well on this because I saw it hours ago and now can't find it again, but I wanted to note this small example of fake news and I think I can at least convey the gist of it.
Trump met with Pelosi and other Democrats today to discuss something about infrastructure. The way this is presented in a headline I encountered when I opened the internet is totally misleading:
Trump is quoted saying how he just won't talk to Democrats any more as if he was getting emotional over nothing.
Pelose is presented as saying it was a very "strange" meeting.
NOTHING was said about what really happened: Pelosi said the President was engaged in a "cover up" and that's what Trump was reacting to: he said he wouldn't talk to them as long as they keep saying such false things about him or something like that, and ended the meeting.
"Cover up" of what? That's ridiculous. The Democrats just make up stuff out of thin air against Trump, anything, anything at all will do to try to make him look bad. And it's all lies.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2053 by PaulK, posted 05-23-2019 2:11 AM Faith has replied
 Message 2055 by Faith, posted 05-23-2019 2:28 AM Faith has not replied
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 2053 of 5796 (853153)
05-23-2019 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 2052 by Faith
05-23-2019 1:56 AM


Re: A Bit of Fake News
quote:
NOTHING was said about what really happened: Pelosi said the President was engaged in a "cover up" and that's what Trump was reacting to: he said he wouldn't talk to them as long as they keep saying such false things about him or something like that, and ended the meeting.
"Cover up" of what? That's ridiculous. The Democrats just make up stuff out of thin air against Trump, anything, anything at all will do to try to make him look bad. And it's all lyes.
It obviously isn’t made up out of thin air. Trump is resisting all attempts to investigate what is going on. He makes false excuses to keep his tax returns secret, after promising to release them. He insists that McGahn should not testify. The record of lying about links with Russia also speaks volumes.
See the BBC coverage.
So more fake news and lying from the Right. As usual. At least the Left is working to defend America.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2052 by Faith, posted 05-23-2019 1:56 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2054 by Faith, posted 05-23-2019 2:16 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2054 of 5796 (853154)
05-23-2019 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 2053 by PaulK
05-23-2019 2:11 AM


Re: A Bit of Fake News
Trump is protecting the Presidency against attempts to destroy the separation of powers. That's all these attacks on him amount to, besides attempts to destroy him personally. Congress is asking for things he is not required to give them. He is not required to give them his tax returns and his objections reflect his RIGHT to privacy about them, and his desire to protect the Presidency from their unconstitutional demands. McGann does NOT have to testify so not doing it is his prerogative. He has NOT lied about links to Russia for pete's sake. It's the Democrats, it's the Left that is destroying the country. I am not interested in anything the BBC says, it's just another Leftist mouthpiece.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 2056 by PaulK, posted 05-23-2019 2:50 AM Faith has replied
 Message 2062 by JonF, posted 05-23-2019 9:17 AM Faith has replied
 Message 2083 by Taq, posted 05-23-2019 11:17 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2055 of 5796 (853155)
05-23-2019 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 2052 by Faith
05-23-2019 1:56 AM


Re: A Bit of Fake News
Oh and she accused him of having a "temper tantrum," to which he replied that he was purposely very calm and polite. How is it that they get to lie about him like that? Day after day after day. Somehow they have the power to do this, to trash him and trash those who voted for him. How do they get away with this? They are destroying the country and nobody can stop them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2052 by Faith, posted 05-23-2019 1:56 AM Faith has not replied

  
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