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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News (formerly In the News)
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6692
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2446 of 2475 (857776)
07-11-2019 10:20 AM


Epstein buddy to slash budget for fight against sex trafficking
This headline from The Guardian pretty much says it all:

Trump labor secretary who cut Epstein deal plans to slash funds for sex trafficking victims

Because of course they would.


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6392
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 2447 of 2475 (857780)
07-11-2019 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 2445 by JonF
07-11-2019 9:57 AM


Re: Bill is no liberal figurehead
I find it funny that he claims he is not alt-right.
If you push alt-right arguments, when you talk like the alt-right, when you attack women, minorities, when you make unsubstantiated claims about antifa, you might be alt-reich.

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2445 by JonF, posted 07-11-2019 9:57 AM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2449 by JonF, posted 07-11-2019 11:00 AM Theodoric has responded
 Message 2450 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-11-2019 12:17 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6392
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 2448 of 2475 (857782)
07-11-2019 10:46 AM


And again we see accusations against antifa do not stand up to scrutiny.

quote:
Portland city officials have spent the past week distancing themselves from a June 29 warning issued by the Portland Police Bureau on Twitter that leftist protesters might have mixed quick-drying cement with vegan milkshakes.

https://www.wweek.com/...nt-into-a-vegan-milkshake-we-did-it

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5010
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 2449 of 2475 (857785)
07-11-2019 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 2447 by Theodoric
07-11-2019 10:31 AM


Re: Bill is no liberal figurehead
I find it funny that he claims he is not alt-right.

I missed that. If he isn't alt-right he certainly has drunk all their Kool-Aid.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2447 by Theodoric, posted 07-11-2019 10:31 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2452 by Theodoric, posted 07-11-2019 12:47 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5718
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 2450 of 2475 (857789)
07-11-2019 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2447 by Theodoric
07-11-2019 10:31 AM


Re: Bill is no liberal figurehead
I find it funny that he claims he is not alt-right. If you push alt-right arguments, when you talk like the alt-right, when you attack women, minorities, when you make unsubstantiated claims about antifa, you might be alt-reich.

I don't have time to address the bulk of the substantive issue but I'll take a little time to address your scathing, personal criticisms of me. You claim I'm Alt-Right because I "talk" Alt-Right, whatever that means. And that I "attack women" because I think the MeToo movement, like most movements, are pretentious virtue signals. I do more for women in crisis on a daily basis than you have in your entire life. I do more for minorities on a daily basis than you have your entire life. But the fact that you defend Antifa, a bunch of petulant children running around assaulting people and destroying property is a full display that you are not objectively qualified to even have this conversation. Of course I'm Alt-Right to YOU!

In your very extreme Left version of liberalism, anything not that far to the Left is naturally Alt-Right to you... but it doesn't mean it is in actuality. If I was Alt-Right, I'd flat out tell you. How many Alt-Right people do you know that doesn't support Trump? I've been very vocal that I don't support him or the types of people who do.

As with most things sociopolitical, this binary view of Left vs Right is in actuality a false dichotomy. People and their beliefs are dynamic. Do I support some positions that are typically considered Rightwing? Yeah, absolutely. And I'm vocal about them. Do I support issues that are typically Leftwing in ideology? Absolutely, and I'm vocal about them. If I absolutely had to label myself politically, I'd call me a Moderate. On any given topic or issue I might lean more to one side or the other.

You don't need to invent posts claiming I'm against women and minorities just because I think a single element of an impromptu movement went too far with an otherwise wonderful concept. Thanks.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2447 by Theodoric, posted 07-11-2019 10:31 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2451 by Theodoric, posted 07-11-2019 12:41 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 2454 by Percy, posted 07-11-2019 1:44 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6392
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 2451 of 2475 (857790)
07-11-2019 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2450 by Hyroglyphx
07-11-2019 12:17 PM


Re: Bill is no liberal figurehead
I do more for women in crisis on a daily basis than you have in your entire life. I do more for minorities on a daily basis than you have your entire life.

Classic wing nut protestations of innocence.
You know nothing about me. Do not dare pretend to know anything about what I have done in my life. Your claims of righteousness mean nothing. Do not dare claim to know more about minorities and how they are treated on a daily basis more than I do. Because unless you live it you know nothing.
I am not going to get in to a who's dick is bigger contest with you. That you want to have one tells me a lot.

In your very extreme Left version of liberalism, anything not that far to the Left is naturally Alt-Right to you.

I just love when people destroy their own argument when they act exactly like what they accuse others of acting like. You might want to try some self-awareness.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2450 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-11-2019 12:17 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2458 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-11-2019 5:02 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6392
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 2452 of 2475 (857792)
07-11-2019 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2449 by JonF
07-11-2019 11:00 AM


Re: Bill is no liberal figurehead
hyro writes:

I'm not Alt-Right


Message 2439
If it quacks like a duck and it walks like a duck.
He seems to think that since he has criticized Trump he can not be alt-right.
I guess maybe he doesn't identify as alt-right but he supports a lot if not most of their positions.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2449 by JonF, posted 07-11-2019 11:00 AM JonF has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2467 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-12-2019 12:27 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5010
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 2453 of 2475 (857795)
07-11-2019 12:59 PM


Trump bamboozled for the nth tome
China fails to buy agricultural goods as promised: Trump

quote:
“Mexico is doing great at the Border, but China is letting us down in that they have not been buying the agricultural products from our great Farmers that they said they would,” Trump said Thursday on Twitter.

“Hopefully they will start soon!”



No, Donnie, everybody has figured out that proposing huge purchases without making any commitment or intending to follow through is the way to make you shut up and leave.
Replies to this message:
 Message 2456 by Theodoric, posted 07-11-2019 1:48 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18584
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 2454 of 2475 (857800)
07-11-2019 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2450 by Hyroglyphx
07-11-2019 12:17 PM


Re: Bill is no liberal figurehead
Hyroglyphx writes:

I do more for women in crisis on a daily basis than you have in your entire life. I do more for minorities on a daily basis than you have your entire life.

You keep bringing up what you do, yet you're very coy about it. You're not a policeman, but you do something somehow related in a way that you felt lent your views on police work some authority - if there was more information than that I don't recall it. Now you're again claiming your work, this time for women and minorities, lends your views some authority. Because you keep bringing it up as giving your views some weight, why don't you tell us what it is, exactly, that you do?

But the fact that you defend Antifa, a bunch of petulant children running around assaulting people and destroying property is a full display that you are not objectively qualified to even have this conversation.

I don't know very much about Antifa, but I think everyone should be against violence in the service of political ends.

Do I support issues that are typically Leftwing in ideology? Absolutely, and I'm vocal about them.

Vocal on liberal issues? Here at EvC? Where?

Just one person's perspective: however you want to describe yourself politically, you definitely come across to me as fairly rightwing. I know you don't support Trump.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Typo.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2450 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-11-2019 12:17 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2459 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-11-2019 5:28 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2199
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 2455 of 2475 (857801)
07-11-2019 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2432 by Hyroglyphx
07-10-2019 9:18 PM


Real Facts about Sexual Assault
Hyroglyphx writes:

Lets not play coy that the mantra "Believe Survivors" didn't dominate headlines.

That's because it should.

quote:
A review of research finds that the prevalence of false reporting is between 2 percent and 10 percent. The following studies support these findings:

A multi-site study of eight U.S. communities including 2,059 cases of sexual assault found a 7.1 percent rate of false reports (Lonsway, Archambault, & Lisak, 2009).

A study of 136 sexual assault cases in Boston from 1998-2007 found a 5.9 percent rate of false reports (Lisak et al., 2010).

Using qualitative and quantitative analysis, researchers studied 812 reports of sexual assault from 2000-2003 and found a 2.1 percent rate of false reports (Heenan & Murray 2006)


https://www.nsvrc.org/..._NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

Given these figures, the default should be believing the accusation or at very least taking it very seriously with the caveat that there is a less than 10% chance an accusation may be false.

Jessie Smolett's case does not invalidate this research.

Edited by anglagard, : separate a quoted sentence.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2432 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-10-2019 9:18 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2461 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-11-2019 9:01 PM anglagard has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6392
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 2456 of 2475 (857802)
07-11-2019 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2453 by JonF
07-11-2019 12:59 PM


Re: Trump bamboozled for the nth tome
Great business man. Great negotiator. I think not. What a loser.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2453 by JonF, posted 07-11-2019 12:59 PM JonF has not yet responded

    
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2199
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 2457 of 2475 (857819)
07-11-2019 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2403 by Faith
07-08-2019 10:16 PM


Transactional vs Absolute Morality
In regard to Trump:

Faith writes:

He has plenty of lamentable personality traits, as do most of us, but none of them reaches to that level, and his virtues as a President outweigh them.

So how does Evangelical "morality" work?

Ok Trump I'll trade your thousands of lies (as reported by non-partisan Politifact, or over 10,000 lies as reported by the Washington Post) for two seats on the Supreme Court.

I'll trade 22 viable sexual assault accusations for your tax cuts for the rich.

I'll trade NATO for removing legal protection from the LBGTQ community.

I'll trade overtuning your tax fraud conviction for our desire to abuse immigrant children.

And so on.

I didn't realize Evangelicals believe the Ten Commandments are negotiable.

At least you are winning the war against Christianity.

quote:
The strategy ends by delivering the coup de grace to a belief long held by Americans that places of worship are the most reliable sources of moral instruction. Since the generation of the founders, even American Protestants of less than fervent conviction took their children to church to learn the difference between right and wrong. The disaffected young aren’t likely to expose their children to preachers who tell them that women count for less than men, that their gay friends are going to hell, and that white men with locker room language should rule.

This is nothing to cheer. It’s pathetic that while the voices of evangelical leaders don’t speak for all religious Americans and in fact are anathema to many of them, the latter seem to be paralyzed by the thought that speaking ill of someone else’s religious belief is intolerant. Their good manners won’t win back the loyalty of young people. Tony Perkins, the president of the Family Research Council, claims that attacks on President Trump are attacks on the judgment of many conservatives of faith. Exactly so!


https://www.thedailybeast.com/...ecline-in-christian-faith

Transactional morality? Seems more about Capitalism than Religion.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2403 by Faith, posted 07-08-2019 10:16 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5718
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 2458 of 2475 (857821)
07-11-2019 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2451 by Theodoric
07-11-2019 12:41 PM


Re: Bill is no liberal figurehead
Classic wing nut protestations of innocence.
You know nothing about me. Do not dare pretend to know anything about what I have done in my life.

This after YOU made the ad hominem attack that I'm a misogynist and hate minorities. If you don't want to start shit then don't sling shit around. Simple.

quote:
In your very extreme Left version of liberalism, anything not that far to the Left is naturally Alt-Right to you.

I just love when people destroy their own argument when they act exactly like what they accuse others of acting like. You might want to try some self-awareness.

This coming from an Antifa defender. You have NO objectivity. I'm not defending the Alt-Right, I'm openly disavowing the Alt-Right, but are you disavowing extreme leftist ideology? Nope. I think you better turn that mirror around, cupcake.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2451 by Theodoric, posted 07-11-2019 12:41 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2463 by Theodoric, posted 07-11-2019 10:59 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 2464 by Theodoric, posted 07-11-2019 11:23 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5718
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 2459 of 2475 (857823)
07-11-2019 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 2454 by Percy
07-11-2019 1:44 PM


Re: Bill is no liberal figurehead
You keep bringing up what you do, yet you're very coy about it. You're not a policeman, but you do something somehow related in a way that you felt lent your views on police work some authority - if there was more information than that I don't recall it. Now you're again claiming your work, this time for women and minorities, lends your views some authority. Because you keep bringing it up as giving your views some weight, why don't you tell us what it is, exactly, that you do?

Because I don't really want to talk about what it is I do because then you're getting a little too close to my personal life. Secondly, some of the people on here (not you, Percy, we have our differences but I view you as an honorable man) seem like just the sort of people that find doxing perfectly acceptable behavior. You're right though, I shouldn't have made allusions as to what I do for a living if I wasn't going to fully explain it. I guess I'll just offer this hint and we'll leave it at that: I've been in a lot of different fields that tend to overlap with one another. I work and have always worked in the public sector (government) be it federal, state, county or city level for about 19-20 years now. So I work constantly with people of every gender, race, nationality, ethnicity, etc on a daily basis and everyone is treated with the dignity and respect they deserve without prejudice, without bias and without exception. I was openly challenged, I took exception to it, and felt the need to defend my honor. And I think I've already shared too much.

I don't know very much about Antifa, but I think everyone should be against violence in the service of political ends.

Antifa and Proud Boys are constantly battling each other, literally, in some cities around the nation and in some cases other parts of the world. Both factions are really deepening the rift between Right and Left. They're a problem.

Vocal on liberal issues? Here at EvC? Where?

Here and elsewhere.

Just one person's perspective: however you want to describe yourself politically, you definitely come across to me as fairly rightwing. I know you don't support Trump.

And that is a fair perspective as I have definitely retained some beliefs that are commonly associated with rightwing beliefs. But I have taken up more leftwing causes over the years and I would think that you have seen this transformation when compared to ten or so years when I aligned more to the right... so much so that I don't consider myself a Republican and I don't consider myself "on the Right." In fact, I think this division is slowly killing us as a nation. I value moderation and value trying to reach across the aisle.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2454 by Percy, posted 07-11-2019 1:44 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5010
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 2460 of 2475 (857831)
07-11-2019 8:50 PM


No clue what free speech is
He has no idea what free speech is. He wants strict Republican government control. It's OK If You're A Republican.


  
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