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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News (formerly In the News)
Faith
Member
Posts: 33255
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2941 of 2980 (863954)
10-03-2019 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2940 by PaulK
10-03-2019 3:38 PM


Re: Fox News Gets the Facts Backward
Trump threatened NOTHING. That's all the Left's spin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2940 by PaulK, posted 10-03-2019 3:38 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2942 by PaulK, posted 10-03-2019 3:55 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 2943 by DrJones*, posted 10-03-2019 4:04 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15439
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2942 of 2980 (863955)
10-03-2019 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2941 by Faith
10-03-2019 3:49 PM


Re: Fox News Gets the Facts Backward
Oh please. He cancels military aid only hours before the call. Asks the Ukrainians to do things for him - things he shouldn’t be asking for as President - when they are asking for aid. Just because it’s implicit doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2941 by Faith, posted 10-03-2019 3:49 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1953
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


(4)
Message 2943 of 2980 (863960)
10-03-2019 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2941 by Faith
10-03-2019 3:49 PM


Re: Fox News Gets the Facts Backward
it doesn't matter if he threatened or made a promise, in fact it doesn't even matter if the Bidens are corrupt, he asked a foreign power to interfere in the upcoming election. Today he asked China to do the same.

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2941 by Faith, posted 10-03-2019 3:49 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2944 by Faith, posted 10-04-2019 11:50 AM DrJones* has not yet responded
 Message 2950 by ICANT, posted 10-05-2019 12:57 AM DrJones* has responded
 Message 2951 by ICANT, posted 10-05-2019 1:27 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33255
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2944 of 2980 (863973)
10-04-2019 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2943 by DrJones*
10-03-2019 4:04 PM


Trump was asking a favor about the 2016 election, not about Biden
This whole thing has been getting very confused so I'll have to wait and see what the ultimate upshot is. But what he did in that phone call is what all Presidents do. Such private talks should never be publicly exposed. Since it has been, many are now calling for such phone calls from former Presidents to be exposed too. It's only fair but we are now being manipulated by a corrupt Left so nothing fair is going to happen. Also there can't be a whistleblower in this case since the president is not part of the intelligence community. AND until recently a whistleblower had to have first hand information not this second or third hand gossip that the transcript showed to be wrong.

But as I've been saying, most of what I've heard is that the favor he asked wasn't about Biden anyway, which would not have been wrong even if it was, it was about the Ukraine's position in the 2016 election of meddling on the side of Hillary, and Trump's wanting to get ot the bottom of THAT collusion that issued in the Mueller investigation. The clue that this is what it was about is his mention of CrowdStrike.Here's a discussion of this aspect of the conversation.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2943 by DrJones*, posted 10-03-2019 4:04 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2945 by PaulK, posted 10-04-2019 12:14 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15439
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2945 of 2980 (863977)
10-04-2019 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2944 by Faith
10-04-2019 11:50 AM


Re: Trump was asking a favor about the 2016 election, not about Biden
quote:
This whole thing has been getting very confused so I'll have to wait and see what the ultimate upshot is.

Trump is quite confused - read the transcript.

quote:
But what he did in that phone call is what all Presidents do.

Using his position to seek personal advantage ? His people knew, that’s why they tried to hide the transcript.

quote:
It's only fair but we are now being manipulated by a corrupt Left so nothing fair is going to happen. Also

Exposing Trump’s abuse of his office is hardly “corrupt”, nor is it unfair.

quote:
Also there can't be a whistleblower in this case since the president is not part of the intelligence community. AND until recently a whistleblower had to have first hand information not this second or third hand gossip that the transcript showed to be wrong.

And every claim there is false.

quote:
But as I've been saying most of what I've heard is that the favor he asked wasn't about Biden anyway, which would not have been wrong even if it was, it was about the Ukraine's position in the 2016 election of meddling on the side of Hillary, and Trump's wanting to get ot the bottom of THAT collusion that issued in the Mueller investigation.

The election meddling was in favour of Trump. And Trump is desperately casting around for ways to discredit it.

quote:
The clue that this is what it was about is his mention of CrowdStrike. Here's a discussion of this aspect of the conversation.

Let’s see what that says:

...Trump has long alleged a DNC server is “missing,” a theory which appears to be based on a conspiracy theory peddled in right-wing circles that CrowdStrike was involved in a cover-up of the DNC breach.

But in reality, there are no physical machines linked with the DNC breach that are actually missing...

Trump wants Zelensky to find a machine that doesn’t exist.

Let me point out that Crowdstrike is a US-based company, apparently with no offices in the Ukraine (I looked for evidence and the closest is in Romania). If they had taken physical possession of a server (there is no reason to think they did) they would have returned it to the DNC when their investigation was complete. And they certainly wouldn’t have sent it off to the Ukraine. That makes no sense.

And why is Trump personally asking for this non-existent server? And sending in his personal lawyer ? As well as going on to try and get the Ukrainians to discredit Mueller and Biden ?

Could it be any more obvious that it is all about Trump ?

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fix quote box and contained link.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Format that link differently.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2944 by Faith, posted 10-04-2019 11:50 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2946 by Faith, posted 10-04-2019 12:17 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 33255
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2946 of 2980 (863978)
10-04-2019 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2945 by PaulK
10-04-2019 12:14 PM


Re: Trump was asking a favor about the 2016 election, not about Biden
Everything you say here is Leftist lies, and that's al *I* am going to say at this point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2945 by PaulK, posted 10-04-2019 12:14 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2947 by PaulK, posted 10-04-2019 12:20 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15439
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 2947 of 2980 (863979)
10-04-2019 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2946 by Faith
10-04-2019 12:17 PM


Re: Trump was asking a favor about the 2016 election, not about Biden
In other words it’s all true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2946 by Faith, posted 10-04-2019 12:17 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3761
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 2948 of 2980 (863983)
10-04-2019 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 2932 by ICANT
09-30-2019 9:37 PM


Re: The Crime that Was Not and Yet Was
Sorry to disappoint you but Chris Collins from New York is not the ranking member on the house judiciary committee, Doug Collins from Georgia is.

It makes no difference who asked the question. The answer Mueller gave is what we are discussing. In fact Collins gave the report and page number of Mueller's report he was getting Mueller's statement he was asking him about.

Uh, yes it does make a difference who's asking the question. If the one asking the question in a formal legal format is at all antagonistic to the witness, then we might expect an attempt to put words in the witness' mouth.

The crudest example of this is to demand a yes-or-no answer to the question: "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Restricted to a yes or no answer and nothing else, any answer the witness would give would condemn him, whereas if he were allowed to explore other options (eg, "I've never beaten my wife!") the outcome would be completely different.

Mueller's position was centered around his Report, which he maintained answered all questions about the report. Trying to force him into yes-no answers that ignore the many qualifications and conditions of his report and of his responses would end up being an exercise in putting words into his mouth.

Besides, all that talk was about conspiracy and not about our subject, collusion. So all your quoting of Doug Collins questioning Mueller means absolutely nothing at all. So why are you concentrating on that? Oh yeah, to redirect our attention away from the subject. Deflect and divert.

Collusion: example In economics, collusion occurs when rival firms agree to work together, e.g. setting higher prices in order to make higher profits.

Conspiracy: For example, if Trump officials conspired to help Russians interfere with the election, they could be liable for conspiracy even if only the Russians did the actual interfering.

The principal difference between conspiracy and collusion is that conspiracy requires explicit agreements between the parties, whereas collusion can be done with tacit cooperation, following someone else's lead, without a formal explicit agreement to do so. To prove conspiracy, you need to find evidence of that explicit agreement, which is what can make conspiracy cases so difficult to prosecute successfully. To prove collusion, you need only observe the parties' actions. An example would be one of the spy cases (the Walker case, I think) in which our counter-intelligence agents could tell what was going on, but they couldn't step in and arrest him until finally they observed him using a dead drop, which could only have been arranged through explicit agreements.

The Mueller Report describes a large number of instances of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, many of which involved offering or seeking or accepting or exchanging information. Despite Faith's bad faith description of these meetings as "innocent", they were far from innocent.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2932 by ICANT, posted 09-30-2019 9:37 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2949 by ICANT, posted 10-05-2019 12:22 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6244
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 2949 of 2980 (863999)
10-05-2019 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 2948 by dwise1
10-04-2019 2:28 PM


Re: The Crime that Was Not and Yet Was
Hi dwise1

dwise1 writes:

The crudest example of this is to demand a yes-or-no answer to the question: "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Restricted to a yes or no answer and nothing else, any answer the witness would give would condemn him, whereas if he were allowed to explore other options (eg, "I've never beaten my wife!") the outcome would be completely different.

Collins was asking him to answer yes or no to his questions because he was reading information from a written report that Mueller said he was not going to testify about anything else. Collins was just trying to get him to testify to his report in open session before the camera's.

If you wrote a paper and I was questioning you about what that paper said by reading a sentence and asking you did you stand by your report. I read another sentence and ask you is that what you said? How many answers would you have for those questions?

Either you would agree that the statement read was what you said or was not what you said. At which point I would have the report handed to you if you did not have one, and ask for you to read it.

So quit throwing in your strawmen to deflect an argument.

dwise1 writes:

The principal difference between conspiracy and collusion is that conspiracy requires explicit agreements between the parties, whereas collusion can be done with tacit cooperation,

Collusion is not a Federal offense so what are you arguing about?

If it is not a Federal offense there is no charges that can be brought and nothing for you or anyone to accuse the President of collusion being an impeachable offense.

So what is all the fuss about?

dwise1 writes:

(the Walker case, I think) in which our counter-intelligence agents could tell what was going on, but they couldn't step in and arrest him until finally they observed him using a dead drop, which could only have been arranged through explicit agreements.

So the collusion was not a crime and they could not interfere with the subject until his actions was put into play. The drop box was not even illegal. But when the subject placed something in the drop box. Still no crime had occurred until the recipient removed the object from the drop box. Then by their actions they had committed an offense.

The collusion was not a Federal offense. Only the action of the subjects was a Federal offense.

dwise1 writes:

The Mueller Report describes a large number of instances of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, many of which involved offering or seeking or accepting or exchanging information. Despite Faith's bad faith description of these meetings as "innocent", they were far from innocent.

I have read the report and I can't find one Federal offense that was committed.

Would you please give me just one of those instances of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians. Give me the page and report where it is found.

God Bless


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2948 by dwise1, posted 10-04-2019 2:28 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6244
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 2950 of 2980 (864000)
10-05-2019 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 2943 by DrJones*
10-03-2019 4:04 PM


Re: Fox News Gets the Facts Backward
Hi Dr

Dr Jones writes:

it doesn't matter if he threatened or made a promise, in fact it doesn't even matter if the Bidens are corrupt, he asked a foreign power to interfere in the upcoming election. Today he asked China to do the same.

Can you give me a direct quote from the transcript of the phone call where, he asked a foreign power to interfere in the upcoming election. I can't find such a question in my copy of the transcript.

God Bless


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2943 by DrJones*, posted 10-03-2019 4:04 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2952 by DrJones*, posted 10-05-2019 1:44 AM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6244
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 2951 of 2980 (864002)
10-05-2019 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 2943 by DrJones*
10-03-2019 4:04 PM


Re: Fox News Gets the Facts Backward
Deleted Double post

God Bless

Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2943 by DrJones*, posted 10-03-2019 4:04 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1953
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 2952 of 2980 (864004)
10-05-2019 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 2950 by ICANT
10-05-2019 12:57 AM


Re: Fox News Gets the Facts Backward
don't play stupid, he repeatedly asked the Ukrainian government to investigate Joe Biden and his son. Biden is a leading candidate to be his opponent in the next election and trump was seeking the help of a foreign power to try to create material to smear him with. Just the other day he said he was going to ask China to investigate the Biden, again he's open to having a foreign power interfere with your elections.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2950 by ICANT, posted 10-05-2019 12:57 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2971 by ICANT, posted 10-07-2019 3:33 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18868
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 2953 of 2980 (864010)
10-05-2019 6:17 AM


Fox News Comes a Little Closer to the Truth
In Biden snaps at reporter over Ukraine question, tells media to focus on Trump instead Fox News comes a little closer (very little) to the truth about Shokin's investigation of Burisma Holdngs where Joe Biden's son sat on the board:

quote:
Hunter Biden served on the board of a Ukrainian energy company while his father was vice president. Trump and fellow Republicans have questioned Biden's role pushing for the dismissal of a Ukrainian prosecutor who had been looking into corruption at the company (though the prosecutor was viewed by officials in several countries as being corrupt himself).

What Fox News gets right is a) That Shokin was investigating Burisma Holdings, but they fail to mention that he was investigating a period before Joe Biden's son joined the board; and b) Shokin was widely viewed around the world as corrupt himself, which is why Joe Biden, representing the interests of the United States in his role as Vice President, joined with other western democracies to urge the Ukraine to dismiss Shokin.

What Fox News continues to get wrong by omission is that Shokin refused to investigate the founder of Burisma Holdings, one of the reasons Shokin was viewed as corrupt. By pushing for Shokin's dismissal Biden was making it more likely that the founder of Burisma Holdings where his son sat on the board would be investigated.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2970 by ICANT, posted 10-07-2019 1:20 AM Percy has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6654
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 2954 of 2980 (864012)
10-05-2019 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 2939 by Faith
10-03-2019 3:25 PM


Re: Fox News Gets the Facts Backward
So you have no resorted to posting Russian propaganda. So you feel it is ok to destroy your country for Jesus.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2939 by Faith, posted 10-03-2019 3:25 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2955 by Faith, posted 10-05-2019 12:09 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 33255
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2955 of 2980 (864017)
10-05-2019 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2954 by Theodoric
10-05-2019 7:25 AM


Re: Fox News Gets the Facts Backward
Weird. I never get used to the fact that just about no matter what I say here that seems perfectly straightforward to me, it's going to be spun into some kind of nasty accusation of me, and often one that makes no sense to me at all as in this case.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2954 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2019 7:25 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2956 by ringo, posted 10-05-2019 12:19 PM Faith has responded
 Message 2959 by PaulK, posted 10-05-2019 1:26 PM Faith has responded
 Message 2963 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2019 2:22 PM Faith has responded

    
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