Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,832 Year: 4,089/9,624 Month: 960/974 Week: 287/286 Day: 8/40 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3121 of 5796 (865277)
10-23-2019 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 3120 by Theodoric
10-22-2019 11:26 PM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed / Starr vs Mueller Reports
Here's a list of very specific statements from Starr's independent counsel report about Clinton's criminal behavior. Mueller's report on the contrary specifically said there was no evidence that Trump and his campaign people did anything criminal in relation to the Russian interference in the election. The specificity of Starr's descriptions of Clinton's actual misbehavior contrasts sharply with the Mueller Report which first of all says there was no evidence whatever of collusion and then gives a very vague list of things Trump said that might be obstruction of justice but he never came out and said it was. Starr was very clear that Clinton had lied under oath and obstructed justice.
It's a contrast between specific statements of wrong doing in the Clinton case and nothing but wishful innuendo in the Trump case.
Stated possible grounds for impeachment[edit]
Specifically, Starr reported:
There is substantial and credible information supporting the following eleven possible grounds for impeachment:
1. President Clinton lied under oath in his civil case when he denied a sexual affair, a sexual relationship, or sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky.
2. President Clinton lied under oath to the grand jury about his sexual relationship with Ms. Lewinsky.
3. In his civil deposition, to support his false statement about the sexual relationship, President Clinton also lied under oath about being alone with Ms. Lewinsky and about the many gifts exchanged between Ms. Lewinsky and him.
4. President Clinton lied under oath in his civil deposition about his discussions with Ms. Lewinsky concerning her involvement in the Jones case.
5. During the Jones case, the President obstructed justice and had an understanding with Ms. Lewinsky to jointly conceal the truth about their relationship by concealing gifts subpoenaed by Ms. Jones's attorneys.
6. During the Jones case, the President obstructed justice and had an understanding with Ms. Lewinsky to jointly conceal the truth of their relationship from the judicial process by a scheme that included the following means: (i) Both the President and Ms. Lewinsky understood that they would lie under oath in the Jones case about their sexual relationship; (ii) the President suggested to Ms. Lewinsky that she prepare an affidavit that, for the President's purposes, would memorialize her testimony under oath and could be used to prevent questioning of both of them about their relationship; (iii) Ms. Lewinsky signed and filed the false affidavit; (iv) the President used Ms. Lewinsky's false affidavit at his deposition in an attempt to head off questions about Ms. Lewinsky; and (v) when that failed, the President lied under oath at his civil deposition about the relationship with Ms. Lewinsky.
7. President Clinton endeavored to obstruct justice by helping Ms. Lewinsky obtain a job in New York at a time when she would have been a witness harmful to him were she to tell the truth in the Jones case.
8. President Clinton lied under oath in his civil deposition about his discussions with Vernon Jordan concerning Ms. Lewinsky's involvement in the Jones case.
9. The President improperly tampered with a potential witness by attempting to corruptly influence the testimony of his personal secretary, Betty Currie, in the days after his civil deposition.
10. President Clinton endeavored to obstruct justice during the grand jury investigation by refusing to testify for seven months and lying to senior White House aides with knowledge that they would relay the President's false statements to the grand jury — and did thereby deceive, obstruct, and impede the grand jury.
11. President Clinton abused his constitutional authority by (i) lying to the public and the Congress in January 1998 about his relationship with Ms. Lewinsky; (ii) promising at that time to cooperate fully with the grand jury investigation; (iii) later refusing six invitations to testify voluntarily to the grand jury; (iv) invoking Executive Privilege; (v) lying to the grand jury in August 1998; and (vi) lying again to the public and Congress on August 17, 1998 — all as part of an effort to hinder, impede, and deflect possible inquiry by the Congress of the United States.[8]
Sorry, lost the connection to the Wikipedia article, have to go find it.
AbE: HERE IT IS
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3120 by Theodoric, posted 10-22-2019 11:26 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3154 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2019 8:28 AM Faith has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 3122 of 5796 (865278)
10-23-2019 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 3116 by Faith
10-22-2019 11:15 PM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
Clinton and Nixon were both charged with crimes from the Special Counsel.
That's the thing! We cannot get that Special Counsel because of Barr! So Congress has to do that itself! That is what we are watching right now!
The only reason Trump wasn't is that they found none.
No, it's because of Bill Barr. These agencies sent criminal referals to the DOJ. Bill Barr unilaterally decided to ignore all of them! So now Congress has to do the work of the DOJ.
 
To borrow from Point/Counterpoint in the original SNL: Faith, you ignorunt slut!
First, this is a political procedure (eg, the offenses need not be actual crimes), not a judicial one, but it does follow certain parallel procedures:
  1. The investigation phase in which the evidence is gathered and determination is made of whether any charges need to be made. Normally that is done by a Grand Jury or a Special Counsel who keep all evidence gathering in complete secrecy!
    This is where Congress is now, since they cannot get a Special Counsel going from the current corrupt DOJ.
  2. Indictment/Impeachment. This is when the actual charges are made. We are not there yet!
  3. Trial, as in "in the Senate". That is when you may "face your accuser!"
    For all the armies of lawyers that Trump has used over the years to overwhelm his plaintiffs (eg, the countless contractors he has refused to pay, which is a large part of his business model), Trump is incredibly ignorunt of legal processes.
 
So just relax and have some patience. There will be charges coming for Trump. So many charges that you will be overwhelmed. And you will never ever have to ever complain about a lack of charges ever again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3116 by Faith, posted 10-22-2019 11:15 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3123 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 1:20 AM dwise1 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3123 of 5796 (865279)
10-23-2019 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 3122 by dwise1
10-23-2019 1:11 AM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
That's all trumped up lies. Barr did nothing but condense the main points of the Mueller Report. When we saw that report it was clear that Barr correctly represented it. The ongoing attempt to discredit Barr is a disgrace, and the ongoing attempt to keep up the Democrat fantasy of crimes by Trump despite the report's finding none is a disgrace, and the ongoing attempt to manufacture obstruction of justice out of nothing is a disgrace, and since all that failed we now have impeachment underway based on something else entirely: this completely innocent phone call to the Ukraine.
Yuck, the Democrats are the criminals in this scenario, liars and worse. Yuck. If they succeed at their utterly unjust campaign to bring down Trump it will destroy the whole justice system and constitutional foundation of this nation.
AbE Yes impeachment doesn't require criminality, it's a political action, but the Constitution specifies treason and high crimes and misdemeanors. There is nothing at all in anything Trump has been accused of that rises to anything close to such charges. The whole thing is based on nothing but disliking Trump, disliking his style, his personality.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3122 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2019 1:11 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3128 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2019 1:47 AM Faith has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4443
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3124 of 5796 (865280)
10-23-2019 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 3119 by Faith
10-22-2019 11:20 PM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
You've had way too much chocolate syrup.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3119 by Faith, posted 10-22-2019 11:20 PM Faith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 3125 of 5796 (865281)
10-23-2019 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 3119 by Faith
10-22-2019 11:20 PM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
This is a Kangaroo Court in violation of all normal legal procedings.
First, this is no fucking criminal procedure! Please get that through your unobtainiumnally thick Repugian skull!
Second, the House is proceeding according to the House rules.
Third, "court" is not yet in session, so any "kangaroo court" accusations at this point are not even possible. Wait until the House votes on articles of impeachment. That is when "court" is in session.
No impeachment has ever been conducted in such a way.
That is true. Each impeachment before this had a Special Prosecutor who did the initial investigation work, what the Grand Jury does, to determine whether any charges need be made. We had that with Nixon and with Clinton, but not now. Now the Department of Justice run by that Trump sycophant Barr absolutely refuses to investigate anything about Trump.
So Congress has to do the investigation. Which is what Congress is doing right now! Which is why everything has to be in closed session.
PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN THE WORLD!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3119 by Faith, posted 10-22-2019 11:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3126 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 1:32 AM dwise1 has replied
 Message 3127 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 1:37 AM dwise1 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3126 of 5796 (865282)
10-23-2019 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 3125 by dwise1
10-23-2019 1:27 AM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
Oh right it's not a criminal procedure so why are they always screaming about supposed crimes and putting him in jail after his Presidency is over. Bunch of lying hypocrites. Some of them should be put in jail themselvdes.\
MAY THE TRUTH COME OUT LOUD AND CLEAR !!!!!!!
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3125 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2019 1:27 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3129 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2019 1:57 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3127 of 5796 (865283)
10-23-2019 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 3125 by dwise1
10-23-2019 1:27 AM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
You sound like the Mueller Report didn't even happen. Gosh I wonder why? The Special or Independent Counsels in the case of Nixon and Clinton found criminal activities to charge them with, Mueller found absolutely none. And THAT is why the House is now "investigating," which is at least a lying euphemism since it's just the continuation of the witch hunt behind closed doors, not because there is any need for it legally but because Mueller found nothing criminal to charge Trump with. He had nothing in the beginning and he ended with nothing. And based on that nothing the House is still trying to find something and so far has not.
All this is unconstitutional and unjust.
MAY THE TRUTH COME OUT BEFORE OUR REPUBLIC IS DESTROYED BY UNSCRUPULOUS LYING DEMOCRATS!!!!!!!!
AND PLEASE LORD, SAVE THE INNOCENT PEOPLE LIKE BARR AS WELL AS TRUMP FROM THE LYING SLANDER AGAINST THEM.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3125 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2019 1:27 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3132 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2019 2:07 AM Faith has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 3128 of 5796 (865284)
10-23-2019 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 3123 by Faith
10-23-2019 1:20 AM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
Oh FUCK!
You're just engaging in a mindless Gish Gallop of Trumpist vomit. [voice=Original SNL Dan Akroid]Fuck you, Jane, you ignorunt slut![/voice]
Barr misrepresented the Mueller Report, just as he had misrepresented his own legal decision which authorized Bush I to invade Panama and arrest a foreign government leader (and after Bush's administration, actual examination of Barr's legal decision showed him to have lied). Barr is a disgrace! Mueller's Report does indeed detail multiple instances of obstruction of justice, which can and must be taken up. It also details multiple cases of collusion with Russia which, while not criminal, are still impeachable as hell!
AbE Yes impeachment doesn't require criminality, it's a political action, but the Constitution specifies treason and high crimes and misdemeanors.
And just who decides what "high crimes and misdemeanors" are? Congress does! Those would arguably include vast abuses of power and collusion with hostile foreign powers, which are basically what we have been observing Trump to do in plain sight.
There is nothing at all in anything Trump has been accused of that rises to anything close to such charges.
Just where the fuck are you getting your so finely filtered bullshirt news from? Are you really that completely cut off from the real world? Did you fall and hit your head?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3123 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 1:20 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3130 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 1:58 AM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 3129 of 5796 (865285)
10-23-2019 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 3126 by Faith
10-23-2019 1:32 AM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
Oh right it's not a criminal procedure so why are they always screaming about supposed crimes and putting him in jail after his Presidency is over. Bunch of lying hypocrites. Some of them should be put in jail themselvdes.\
MAY THE TRUTH COME OUT LOUD AND CLEAR !!!!!!!
Sorry, but what a completely ignorunt CUNT you are!
Impeachment and removal are not any part of a judicial procedure. Never has been, never will be. So just get the fuck over it already!
While in office, Trump is being kept safe from indictments by two DOJ OLC memos. As long as he is in office, he feels safe from prosecution, but the moment he leaves office then he is vulnerable for his many crimes. That is why Trump is so desperate to stay in office as long as possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3126 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 1:32 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3131 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 2:00 AM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 3141 by Tangle, posted 10-23-2019 3:04 AM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 3143 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 3:26 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3130 of 5796 (865286)
10-23-2019 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 3128 by dwise1
10-23-2019 1:47 AM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
Barr did not misrepresent the Mueller report and Mueller himself even said so when Barr specifically asked him, and there were witnesses.
MAY THE TRUTH COME OUT AND SAVE THIS NATION!!!!!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3128 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2019 1:47 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3133 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2019 2:10 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3131 of 5796 (865287)
10-23-2019 2:00 AM
Reply to: Message 3129 by dwise1
10-23-2019 1:57 AM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
You are severely deluded.
AND MAY I SUGGEST TO THE EVC ADMINISTRATIONI THAT YOU NEED TO BE PUNISHED FOR THE WAY YOU ARE TALKING TO ME.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3129 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2019 1:57 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 3132 of 5796 (865288)
10-23-2019 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 3127 by Faith
10-23-2019 1:37 AM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
You sound like the Mueller Report didn't even happen.
Oh, it did indeed happen. And we have quoted it to you at great length. And you have to run away from that report every time. And yet you keep lyying about the Mueller Report, you pathetic Repugnian wankers.
The {mindless pseudo-political blather} not.
Please just try to get a fucking clue of what is going on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3127 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 1:37 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3134 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 2:11 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 3133 of 5796 (865289)
10-23-2019 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 3130 by Faith
10-23-2019 1:58 AM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
Barr did not misrepresent the Mueller report and Mueller himself even said so when Barr specifically asked him, and there were witnesses.
What a fucking lyying CUNT you are! Mueller specifically wrote to Barr complaining of how Barr had misrepresented his report!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3130 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 1:58 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3135 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 2:14 AM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 3137 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 2:32 AM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 3147 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-23-2019 3:35 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3134 of 5796 (865290)
10-23-2019 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 3132 by dwise1
10-23-2019 2:07 AM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
The Mueller Report did not identify anything to accuse Trump of, it's all innuendo based on not liking the man and absolutely nothing else. If it had anything substantive in it why is the House now trying to invent accusations out of this phone call to the Ukraine as the basis for their utterly unjust and insane impeachment effort?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3132 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2019 2:07 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3135 of 5796 (865291)
10-23-2019 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 3133 by dwise1
10-23-2019 2:10 AM


Re: The Muller Witch Hunt Exposed
No he did not. And Barr called him to find out if that was what he was saying and he denied it, and there were witnesses.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3133 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2019 2:10 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024