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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 3511 of 5796 (867103)
11-20-2019 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 3510 by Faith
11-20-2019 2:30 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
Trump did try to extort the President of Ukraine. It is not a lie.
Not the end of discussion, because there are more witnesses to hear from.
Why are you so anti-American? Why are you so against the US Constitution? Why do you support an wannabe autocrat?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3510 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 2:30 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3512 of 5796 (867104)
11-20-2019 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 3510 by Faith
11-20-2019 2:30 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
Faith writes:
TRUMP DID NOT TRY TO EXTORT UKRAINE THAST IS A **** ***.
END OF DISCUSSION.
No. You don't get to end the discussion. The investigation is still ongoing and the investigators will decide what Trump did ot tried to do, not you.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3510 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 2:30 PM Faith has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2290
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 3513 of 5796 (867105)
11-20-2019 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 3508 by Faith
11-20-2019 2:29 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
and what is your evidence that he is the whistleblower?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3508 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 2:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 3514 of 5796 (867106)
11-20-2019 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3508 by Faith
11-20-2019 2:29 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
If he is at least he should feel safe knowing that he is being outed by doofuses that can't even get his name right.
But you don't have any evidence or even reasonable arguments as to why you think this guy is the whistleblower do you.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3508 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 2:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 195 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 3515 of 5796 (867109)
11-20-2019 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3510 by Faith
11-20-2019 2:30 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
TRUMP DID NOT TRY TO EXTORT UKRAINE THAST IS A **** ***.
The evidence that he did is overwhelming. Especially after foday.
END OF DISCUSSION.
Yep, the discussion is over. The truth's out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3510 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 2:30 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3517 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 3:36 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 195 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 3516 of 5796 (867111)
11-20-2019 3:34 PM


Impeachment a debacle for Trump

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3517 of 5796 (867112)
11-20-2019 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 3515 by JonF
11-20-2019 3:17 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
No he did not. Aid was not mentioned at all in the phone call, and even if it had been it is common for Presidents to make aid contingent on such things as whether there is corruption in the country to receive it, whih is what he was asking about. But no aid was mentioned, it was not withheld, they got it and they did nothing at all in order to get it so there was no extortion whatever. You all just want ot think there was but you don't understand anything about it so you just impose your own hatred of Trump on it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3515 by JonF, posted 11-20-2019 3:17 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3518 by JonF, posted 11-20-2019 3:48 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 3520 by PaulK, posted 11-20-2019 3:53 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 3522 by Taq, posted 11-20-2019 4:34 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 195 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 3518 of 5796 (867115)
11-20-2019 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3517 by Faith
11-20-2019 3:36 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
It's in the transcript. Many reliable witnesses have testified as to what happened. The cat is out of the bag.
Your refusal to return to planet Earth does not change that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3517 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 3:36 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 195 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 3519 of 5796 (867117)
11-20-2019 3:49 PM


FARTGATE!!!!!

Replies to this message:
 Message 3521 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 3:59 PM JonF has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 3520 of 5796 (867121)
11-20-2019 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 3517 by Faith
11-20-2019 3:36 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
quote:
Aid was not mentioned at all in the phone call...
Zelensky explicitly mentioned the missiles - which the military aid was for. Trump immediately asked for a favour,
quote:
... even if it had been it is common for Presidents to make aid contingent on such things as whether there is corruption in the country to receive it
Trump wasn’t concerned with corruption, he wanted Zelensky to help find the imaginary server and to announce that Hunter Biden was being investigated (see Sondland’s testimony - Trump didn’t need an actual investigation, just the announcement).
And since you mention corruption it seems that Politico got it’s facts wrong. Manafort’s dealings with the Russians were revealed by anti-corruption investigators, BBC
President Trump's supporters suggest this document was a fake and that it was deliberately leaked by a Ukrainian journalist turned politician, Sergei Leschenko, who hated Mr Trump.
The problem is that the sections released by Mr Leschenko did not refer to Paul Manafort at all. The material related to Mr Manafort was made public by an official Ukrainian anti-corruption body.
The aid was given - but only because Republican Senators pushed Trump into it. And the White House visit for Zelensky - the other part of the deal - has not happened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3517 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 3:36 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3521 of 5796 (867123)
11-20-2019 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 3519 by JonF
11-20-2019 3:49 PM


Democrat Lies just keep going and going and going
All but two of the "witnesses" were not witnesses, they wre reporting third and fourth hand hearsay. Aand there is no mention of "aid" in the transcript of the phone call.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3519 by JonF, posted 11-20-2019 3:49 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3524 by RAZD, posted 11-20-2019 5:35 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 3525 by JonF, posted 11-20-2019 6:40 PM Faith has replied
 Message 3531 by RAZD, posted 11-21-2019 6:41 AM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 3522 of 5796 (867126)
11-20-2019 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 3517 by Faith
11-20-2019 3:36 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
Faith writes:
Aid was not mentioned at all in the phone call, . . .
There is so much more than just a phone call. This was a campaign that went on for months. The phone call is just a tiny, tiny piece of the overall problem. Only members of the Cult of Trump pretend as if the phone call is all that exists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3517 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 3:36 PM Faith has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3523 of 5796 (867129)
11-20-2019 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 3509 by ringo
11-20-2019 2:29 PM


et tu brute
Barbarians would have killed him long ago.
Romans would have done it ...
quote:
The assassination of Julius Caesar was a conspiracy of several Roman senators, notably led by Marcus Junius Brutus, Cassius Longinus, and Decimus Brutus, at the end of the Roman Republic. They stabbed Caesar to death in the Theatre of Pompey on the Ides of March (15 March) 44 BC.
In January 44, Caesarwho was already dictatorwas named perpetual dictator by the Senate. This declaration made many senators of the conservative Optimates faction fear that Caesar wanted to overthrow the Republic and establish a monarchy; they thus decided to kill him to save the Republic. Despite the death of Caesar, the conspirators were unable to restore the institutions of the Republic, and the ramifications of the assassination led to the Liberators' civil war and ultimately to the Principate period of the Roman Empire.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmericanZenDeist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 3524 of 5796 (867134)
11-20-2019 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 3521 by Faith
11-20-2019 3:59 PM


The evidence just keep going and going and going
All but two of the "witnesses" were not witnesses, they wre reporting third and fourth hand hearsay. Aand there is no mention of "aid" in the transcript of the phone call.
Every testimony to date has supported the bare facts that aid was withheld, that favors were asked for -- as detailed in the letter/memo of the August 12 phone call.
So far neither Trump nor the republicans have presented any exculpatory evidence:
quote:
Exculpatory evidence is evidence favorable to the defendant in a criminal trial that exonerates or tends to exonerate the defendant of guilt.[1] It is the opposite of inculpatory evidence, which tends to present guilt.
In many countries, including the United States, police and prosecutors are required to disclose to the defendant exculpatory evidence they possess before the defendant enters a plea (guilty or not guilty).[2]
Per the Brady v. Maryland decision, prosecutors have a duty to disclose exculpatory evidence even if not requested to do so. While the prosecution is not required to search for exculpatory evidence and must disclose only the evidence in its possession, custody, or control, the prosecution's duty is to disclose all information known to any member of its team, e.g., police, investigators, crime labs, et cetera. In Brady v. Maryland, the U.S. Supreme Court held that such a requirement follows from constitutional due process and is consistent with the prosecutor's duty to seek justice.[3]
So far all the evidence presented is inculpatory. All republicans have done is pretend that nothing happened.
The bare minimum evidence that everyone should agree on:
  1. The aid was held up
  2. holding up the aid endangered the Ukrainians
  3. holding up the aid damaged out relationship with Ukraine
  4. the only person who could hold up the aid is Trump
  5. holding up the aid potentially benefited two parties:
    1. Russia (1)
    2. Trump (2)
  6. the aid was released immediately after the whistle-blower's document became public
  7. there is no other reason known for the aid to be held up
(1) -- it weakens the apparent support for Ukraine from the west and emboldens his expansionist behavior. This is evident from watching Russian TV, where they are advising Ukraine to side with Russia.
(2) -- it allows Giulliani, as Trump's personal lawyer/representative, to verbalize the quid pro quo (extortion) of "deliverables" ... investigation into Biden, the mythical DNC server etc
The action of Trump (whitehouse, administration, etc) in refusing to provide any evidence is (a) obstruction of justice (withholding evidence is a crime) and (b) implies there is no exculpatory evidence they could release, and (c) gives the impression of guilt.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmericanZenDeist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3521 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 3:59 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 195 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 3525 of 5796 (867138)
11-20-2019 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 3521 by Faith
11-20-2019 3:59 PM


Re: Democrat Lies just keep going and going and going
But there's plenty of mentions of aid in the statements of the witnesses. The phone call isn't all we have
All the witnesses tell largely the same story. (If they all told exactly the same story that would be suspicious.) They're not telling third or fourth hand. Even if you want to ignore all of them except the two you acknowledge are directly involved the facts are clear,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3521 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 3:59 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3526 by RAZD, posted 11-20-2019 7:36 PM JonF has not replied
 Message 3528 by Faith, posted 11-20-2019 8:59 PM JonF has replied

  
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