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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News (renamed)
Faith
Member
Posts: 33870
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3556 of 3767 (867255)
11-22-2019 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3555 by Taq
11-22-2019 4:49 PM


Re: Democrat **** just keep going and going and going
there was no quid pro quo. The aid was already slated for Ukraine. All Trump wanted was that Zelensky deal with the corruption he'd committed himself to dealing with, such as their interference in the 2016 election for Hillary and against Trump. No quid pro quo at all, just a request for perfectly normal action in dealing with known corruption.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3555 by Taq, posted 11-22-2019 4:49 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3557 by DrJones*, posted 11-22-2019 5:28 PM Faith has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2021
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 3557 of 3767 (867257)
11-22-2019 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 3556 by Faith
11-22-2019 5:17 PM


Re: Democrat Lies just keep going and going and going
The aid was already slated for Ukraine

and was only released after the whistleblower report was made public.

All Trump wanted was that Zelensky deal with the corruption he'd committed himself to dealing with

right "you do A and then I give you B" is textbook quid pro quo. Quid pro quo = something for something (translated from the Latin).

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3556 by Faith, posted 11-22-2019 5:17 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3558 by Faith, posted 11-22-2019 6:05 PM DrJones* has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33870
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3558 of 3767 (867258)
11-22-2019 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 3557 by DrJones*
11-22-2019 5:28 PM


Re: Democrat **** just keep going and going and going
THERE WAS NO QUID PRO QUO AQT ALL. IF THERE HAD BEEN WHY HASN'T UKRAINE DONE WHAT THEIR PART WAS UPPOSED TO BE?
\
BUT IF THERE HAD BEEN IT WAS PERFECTLY CORRECT ACCORDING TO ALL NORMAL DIPLOMATIC PRACTICES. aID IS ALWAYS CONTINGENT ON THE RECIPIENT'S DEALING WITH CORRUPTION IN THE COUNTRY.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3557 by DrJones*, posted 11-22-2019 5:28 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3559 by DrJones*, posted 11-22-2019 6:17 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 3561 by JonF, posted 11-22-2019 6:31 PM Faith has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2021
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 3559 of 3767 (867259)
11-22-2019 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3558 by Faith
11-22-2019 6:05 PM


Re: Democrat Lies just keep going and going and going
IF THERE HAD BEEN WHY HASN'T UKRAINE DONE WHAT THEIR PART WAS UPPOSED TO BE?
\

because the whistleblower exposed their scheme, the aid was released only after the whistleblower's report was made public and people started asking why the aid was being held up

THERE WAS NO QUID PRO QUO AQT ALL

of course there was "I get A, you get B" is the literal definition of quid pro quo.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3558 by Faith, posted 11-22-2019 6:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5610
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 3560 of 3767 (867260)
11-22-2019 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 3554 by Faith
11-22-2019 4:33 PM


Re: Democrat Lies just keep going and going and going
Funny I recall Sondland ************ saying Trump ************ said he ************* did not want a quid pro quo.

Trump did say that. September ninth, a week after the White House was informed of the whistleblower and the same day the IG notified the House Intelligence Committee of the complaint.

Lots of crooks say they didn't do it. Nobody cares what they say because of their bias.

I note that you don't remember these parts. From Fox News, Sondland declares quid pro quo, pundits call testimony damaging to Trump

quote:
Gordon Sondland, who had already changed his testimony once, delivered a torrent of words, but none more important than these: “Was there a quid pro quo?...The answer is yes.”

What’s more, the ambassador who was once cast as a pro-Trump witness provided a road map to the Ukraine mess, made clear many top officials were involved, and said it was done at the “express direction” of the president. “Everyone was in the loop. It was no secret.”

...

He said Mike Pompeo, Mick Mulvaney and Rick Perry were kept briefed, citing an email that they were copied on six days before Trump had the famous call with Ukrainian president Zelensky. In that message, Sondland explained that he “just talked to Zelensky” and got him to commit to the “fully transparent investigation” that Trump wanted.

In case there was any ambiguity, Sondland said they all understood what Trump wanted in exchange for the call and a possible meeting with Ukraine’s president. “Mr. Giuliani’s requests were a quid pro quo for arranging a White House visit for President Zelensky. Mr. Giuliani demanded that Ukraine make a public statement announcing investigations of the 2016 election/DNC server and Burisma.” The latter is the Ukrainian company that gave Hunter Biden a lucrative job.

Sondland did say Trump never directly told him a Zelensky meeting was conditioned on a Ukrainian announcement of investigations, but that Rudy did—and for the ambassador, it was “two plus two equals four.”



{Emphasis added}

So Fox News acknowledges that Sondland explicitly and emphatically said there was a quid pro quo. Or is Fox too bleeding-heart liberal for you?

Oh, BTW, “Was there a quid pro quo?...The answer is yes.”

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3554 by Faith, posted 11-22-2019 4:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5610
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 3561 of 3767 (867261)
11-22-2019 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 3558 by Faith
11-22-2019 6:05 PM


Re: Democrat Lies just keep going and going and going
THERE WAS NO QUID PRO QUO AQT ALL. IF THERE HAD BEEN WHY HASN'T UKRAINE DONE WHAT THEIR PART WAS UPPOSED TO BE?

They were going to. The deal was done and they had the "suggested" statement. The interview with Fareed Zakaria on CNN was set up. Then the whistleblower complaint went public and blew the gaff.

Had the whistleblower's report come out a few days later they almost certainly would have done it.

Your sources are leaving a lot out.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3558 by Faith, posted 11-22-2019 6:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3562 by Faith, posted 11-22-2019 6:35 PM JonF has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33870
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3562 of 3767 (867262)
11-22-2019 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 3561 by JonF
11-22-2019 6:31 PM


Re: Democrat **** just keep going and going and going
YOUR sources make up stuff and add it. The "whistleblower" got his information second hand and when Trump let the transcript come out it was nothing **** what the "whistleblower" had said.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3561 by JonF, posted 11-22-2019 6:31 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3563 by xongsmith, posted 11-22-2019 6:44 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 3564 by JonF, posted 11-22-2019 7:01 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 3563 of 3767 (867263)
11-22-2019 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3562 by Faith
11-22-2019 6:35 PM


Re: whistleblower analogy the stupid GOP needs to understand
(testing of posting an image)

click this image link:

Note that when I use the [img-/img dbcodes, it prints the IMAGE NOT FOUND message we just saw in the humor thread (on 11/22/2019).

Edited by Admin, : I added the [img] tags back in and it seems to be working. Hopefully image still displays after I post this edit.


"I'd rather be an American than a Trump Supporter."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3562 by Faith, posted 11-22-2019 6:35 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3565 by JonF, posted 11-22-2019 7:05 PM xongsmith has responded
 Message 3580 by xongsmith, posted 11-23-2019 4:00 AM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5610
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 3564 of 3767 (867264)
11-22-2019 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 3562 by Faith
11-22-2019 6:35 PM


Re: Democrat Lies just keep going and going and going
The whistleblower described the call quite accurately. If you think otherwise, list the errors. Of course you can't, someone just told you that. You have no clue as to the content of the call or the whistleblower's accusation.

I note you can't handle the reality of Sondland's testimony.

quote:
Gordon Sondland, who had already changed his testimony once, delivered a torrent of words, but none more important than these: “Was there a quid pro quo?...The answer is yes.”

What’s more, the ambassador who was once cast as a pro-Trump witness provided a road map to the Ukraine mess, made clear many top officials were involved, and said it was done at the “express direction” of the president. “Everyone was in the loop. It was no secret.”

...

He said Mike Pompeo, Mick Mulvaney and Rick Perry were kept briefed, citing an email that they were copied on six days before Trump had the famous call with Ukrainian president Zelensky. In that message, Sondland explained that he “just talked to Zelensky” and got him to commit to the “fully transparent investigation” that Trump wanted.

In case there was any ambiguity, Sondland said they all understood what Trump wanted in exchange for the call and a possible meeting with Ukraine’s president. “Mr. Giuliani’s requests were a quid pro quo for arranging a White House visit for President Zelensky. Mr. Giuliani demanded that Ukraine make a public statement announcing investigations of the 2016 election/DNC server and Burisma.” The latter is the Ukrainian company that gave Hunter Biden a lucrative job.

Sondland did say Trump never directly told him a Zelensky meeting was conditioned on a Ukrainian announcement of investigations, but that Rudy did—and for the ambassador, it was “two plus two equals four.”



{Emphasis added}

So Fox News acknowledges that Sondland explicitly and emphatically said there was a quid pro quo. Or is Fox too bleeding-heart liberal for you?

Oh, BTW, “Was there a quid pro quo?...The answer is yes.”


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3562 by Faith, posted 11-22-2019 6:35 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5610
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 3565 of 3767 (867265)
11-22-2019 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 3563 by xongsmith
11-22-2019 6:44 PM


Re: whistleblower analogy the stupid GOP needs to understand

Hum. I see the same after stripping the "?" and following.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3563 by xongsmith, posted 11-22-2019 6:44 PM xongsmith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3569 by xongsmith, posted 11-22-2019 8:43 PM JonF has responded
 Message 3577 by Admin, posted 11-23-2019 12:29 AM JonF has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3867
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 3566 of 3767 (867266)
11-22-2019 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 3554 by Faith
11-22-2019 4:33 PM


Re: Democrat Lies just keep going and going and going
Yes, the lawyer-speak line liie via texting that Trump wanted Sondland to repeat (which he did) was that there was not quid pro quo. But Sondland's most recent testimony was that there was indeed a quid pro quo.

But that is still only secondary. Primarily Trump asked a foreign source for a thing of value for personal reasons, which Trump admitted to. That it was for any quid pro quo for purposes of bribery is secondary. That it was also for purposes of extortion is also secondary.

That your theology makes you blind to such outrageous immorality only serves to expose the moral bankruptcy of your theology.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3554 by Faith, posted 11-22-2019 4:33 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3568 by Faith, posted 11-22-2019 8:15 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1036
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3567 of 3767 (867267)
11-22-2019 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 3484 by Percy
11-18-2019 11:24 AM


Re: Fox News Gets the Facts Backward
It wasn't clear to me whether you accepted the reality of the hollowing out of rural America and the dramatic impacts it is having.

Yes, though I don't think give away programs and increased government involvement is going to solve much. I do understand that a big reason for increased hardships in rural America is environmental requirements and restrictions. One example; there wasn't much need for hospitals in the region of the Keystone XL pipeline when Obama was president, because he didn't allow construction activity there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3484 by Percy, posted 11-18-2019 11:24 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3595 by Percy, posted 11-23-2019 4:16 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33870
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3568 of 3767 (867268)
11-22-2019 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3566 by dwise1
11-22-2019 8:05 PM


Re: Democrat **** just keep going and going and going
Trump asked only for information about the previous election corruption and ***** aimed by Hillatry against him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3566 by dwise1, posted 11-22-2019 8:05 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3571 by JonF, posted 11-22-2019 9:15 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 3569 of 3767 (867270)
11-22-2019 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 3565 by JonF
11-22-2019 7:05 PM


Re: whistleblower analogy the stupid GOP needs to understand
JonF writes:

Hum. I see the same after stripping the "?" and following.

What question mark? My 3563 post has ZERO question marks.
Curious.

Percy???

Edited by xongsmith, : Appeal to the higher authority.


"I'd rather be an American than a Trump Supporter."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3565 by JonF, posted 11-22-2019 7:05 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3572 by JonF, posted 11-22-2019 9:21 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1036
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3570 of 3767 (867272)
11-22-2019 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 3488 by RAZD
11-18-2019 1:00 PM


Re: Constitutionalism? oops now "originalist" pt 1: re guns
Now I would expect an originalist interpretation of amendment 2 ...

quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

... would mean that people with arms should be members of a state organized, funded and trained militia as defined in the Constitution, in the current manner of the individual State National Guard units operating today (see Constitution:

I don't expect that, while I'm sure the NRA and others have explained this very thoroughly, I'm not taking the time to look it up, I'll just briefly say that I believe the 2nd amendment refers to two completely separate things, and the only reason they're in the same amendment is because they both involve arms; 1) arms rights and responsibilities for a militia (of that time period) and arms rights for individuals, to always be an intimidating factor against an imperial government.

... and I would NOT expect that to include private ownership of mass killing machines, or carrying them in public, as those - along with proper training in their use would be provided by the National Guard units, or the armed services should they enlist.

We do not normally see any armed service members carrying arms in public, nor do we normally see any police carrying weapons, except a single service pistol issued for specifically work and protection, and which use is tightly controlled.

Note that I do not see anywhere any provision for individuals to use arms to murder large numbers of innocent citizens going about their normal everyday business, or for arming them for such purpose.

I think you would agree that the founders would find such behavior abhorrent.

As they would find abhorrent a population rendered defenseless by its government against people that choose to break many laws when they murder large numbers of people. "Mass killing machines" exist, and laws won't make them cease to exist, any more than prohibition made liquor cease to exist in 1920.

marc9000 writes:

This debate has been going on for over 100 years, I have no desire to get any more involved with it here.

Do you at least agree that the current situation has gotten out of hand, and that the states have the legal right to pass laws regulating weapons and their use? Scalia thought so.

You imply this quote of mine was about gun control. IT WAS NOT. It was about different ways of interpreting the constitution. But to answer your question, if Scalia were alive today, he'd probably change his mind. Because climate change hysteria has gotten out of hand. Since he died, we now have the "Green New Deal". We have many people, including Xongosmith, Percy, and others, claiming that simply stopping producing energy like we do today will solve our problems and still enable us to eat and keep warm. We have the AAAS (American Association for Advancement of Science) selling t-shirts that say "Change Climate Change", claims for "climate action now", huge protest marches of angry, jealous people screaming that we "do something". We have small children who are terrified into thinking they aren't going to see much adulthood. We have Percy and many others convinced that some coastal cities are going to be underwater very soon, and there's nothing that can be done about it now. The list of this type of thing goes on and on, and it can only lead to one logical conclusion, that the U.S. today is in more danger of government searches and seizures than it ever has been in history. Probably at least half, if not more than half, of all fossil burning engines don't have license plates hanging on them. Lawnmowers, chainsaws, weedeaters, farm equipment, construction equipment, the list is long. While some type of gasoline rationing program could be an alternative to heavily armed government invasions of private property, it's doubtful that rationing would be politically feasible. The targeting of small, defined segments of the population, one step at a time, is the only way to meet the significant, greenhouse gas reducing demands of angry, jealous mobs who constantly point fingers at others for climate change solutions.

The left believes new gun laws will be their ticket to searches and seizures of people they are jealous of. They know that laws don't make guns vanish into thin air of course, they just know that government searches are much easier to carry out if a person can be arrested just for having, or being suspected of having, a gun.

The time for individuals to be armed is more important today than ever before, if the U.S. is to avoid a Venezuela style collapse.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3488 by RAZD, posted 11-18-2019 1:00 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3586 by RAZD, posted 11-23-2019 10:23 AM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
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