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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Right Side of the News | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
caffeine Member (Idle past 1045 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined:
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The president of Ukraine scheduled an interview/appearance on CNN (...) Then the CNN interview/appearance was cancelled. This is, I think, the important bit. People keep talking about Trump withholding aid unless Ukraine launched politically-motivated investigations. But that does not seem to be quite the right interpretation from the testimony. It was less about doing any actual investigation, it was about announcing an investigation on English-language TV. This was all clearly for US-domestic consumption.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
This is, I think, the important bit. People keep talking about Trump withholding aid unless Ukraine launched politically-motivated investigations. But that does not seem to be quite the right interpretation from the testimony. It was less about doing any actual investigation, it was about announcing an investigation on English-language TV. This was all clearly for US-domestic consumption. Indeed. All Trumpty needed/wanted was the announcement on tv to be able to use that in his campaigns. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
More Trump attack/insult tweets since 11/21. There were several tweets containing lies, but this subthread is only about attacks and insults, some of which also contain lies:
Current attacks/insults score: Trump: 48; Democrats: 1 Faith and Marc: If you're not even going to make a pretense of trying to find the Democrat/news-media attacks and insults that you claim Trump is responding to (rather than initiating unprovoked) then I think you have to concede the point. Trump issues many, many gratuitous insults and attacks on an almost continuous basis user Twitter, his rallies, and speeches. --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I'm curious if anyone bothers to run Trump's tweets through a fact-checker. As a political moderate, I see Trump's tweets as propaganda to energize his base. My question, as a political moderate, is if there is truth behind some of his insinuations.
And I wonder what percentage of the base reads anything beyond the tweets themselves and a favorite Right Wing News source? Any wise constituent of either political persuasion would do well to watch the media that is the ideological opposite of their core beliefs if only to gain somewhat of a perspective. Finally, I doubt whether Donald trump even compiles his own tweets these days. He likely has a propaganda minister doing it for him. Not that a Democrat wouldnt do the same thing. Politics can be stressful. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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No Democrat would do what Trump's done.
His tweets are his. He doesn't have the self-control to let someone else do them. Often they are related to something true but he lies just because he always lies. He has no concept of truth. He thinks reality adapts to what he wants it to be. I look at right-wing news sometimes. It's irritating because the lies are so transparently obvious to anyone who follows other sources (and detects an occasional lie in them). Faith and her ilk absolutely refuse to look outside the big bubble o' lies.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2285 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
He doesn't have the self-control to let someone else do them
there are some that are obviously written by others, you can tell they have proper spelling and punctuation.It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Thugpreacha writes: My question, as a political moderate, is if there is truth behind some of his insinuations. I'm not sure why you're asking the question. Whenever Trump says anything self-serving it is almost always without exception self-evidently false. Some things he says contain a kernel of truth or are based upon something true, but the parts that represent his own contributions are invariably false. What is surprising, even shocking, is the extremely few number of Republicans who cannot see the lies, or who if they can see them see it in their own best interests to deny them while somehow still being able to live with themselves and sleep at night. But the political costs of backing a liar and criminal appear to be small to non-existent. Can you name a Nixon supporter in Congress who paid a price in terms of the judgment of history? And while Ford lost to Democrat Carter in the next election after Nixon's resignation, Republicans won the presidency in the election after that and held the presidency for the next 12 years. Had Bush Sr. not raised taxes heading into a recession while facing a third party candidacy in Ross Perot it would have been 16 years and perhaps even more after that (though if the candidate had been Dan Quayle it would never have happened).
And I wonder what percentage of the base reads anything beyond the tweets themselves and a favorite Right Wing News source? People rarely seek out facts that contradict their beliefs. And if this forum has taught us anything it's that facts don't convince people. People are not so much rational as rationalizers. So if facts are not how people are convinced then how do you convince people, especially those who are indisputably wrong, like flat-earthers, geocentrists and moon-landing deniers? I don't know.
Any wise constituent of either political persuasion would do well to watch the media that is the ideological opposite of their core beliefs if only to gain somewhat of a perspective. This contains a hint of treating the media as a source of what opinion to hold. They aren't. They're a source of facts, of information. For example, it is a fact that the White House transcript has Zelensky requesting more Javelins and Trump responding, "I would like you to do us a favor, though." Trump wants favors in return for the Javelins. To any Republicans who claim that's not what Trump meant, just tell them that when the Libyans asked for help against Islamic militant groups that Obama responded, "I would like you to do us a favor, though," and see if suddenly the meaning of those words becomes very clear.
Finally, I doubt whether Donald trump even compiles his own tweets these days. He likely has a propaganda minister doing it for him. Not that a Democrat wouldn't do the same thing. Politics can be stressful. First, the tweets contain too many simple spelling errors for that to be true, "Donald Ttump", "hamberders" and "lasting peach" for a few glaring examples. Second, how can you be unaware of the high degree of consternation within the Trump administration in their inability to stop him from tweeting? --Percy
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
From the Guardian:
Chick-fil-A faces rightwing backlash after cutting ties to Christian groups This hasn't been recent news except that it's ongoing. Some years ago, Chick-fil-A made news when it became involved with several conservative Christian organizations, especially anti-same sex marriage activities. Now there seems to be a change in heart. And conservatives aren't happy.
Leading US conservatives have turned on the fast-food restaurant chain Chick-fil-A after the company decided to cut its ties to two Christian groups that have long opposed same-sex marriage. To compound rightwingers' fury, it has also emerged via tax filings that Chick-fil-A donated to the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), a civil rights advocacy organization, in 2017. The SPLC has a lengthy record of supporting LGBTQ+ and abortion rights. (The Christian groups mentioned are the Salvation Army and the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.) Conservative Christians are now in a search for a new Jesus friendly fast food.
"It’s time for Christians to find a fast-food alternative to Chick-fil-A," said Tony Perkins, president of the conservative Family Research Council organization. "Not only has Chick-fil-A abandoned donations to Christian groups including the Salvation Army, it has donated to one of the most extreme anti-Christian groups in America." For this generation of far-right nationalists, religion is not a question of ethical conduct; it is purely about identity and peoplehood. -- Jan-Werner Müller
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
YAY ChicK-fil-A. If they were open today I'd go there for dinner.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
What is surprising, even shocking, is the extremely few number of Republicans who cannot see the lies, or who if they can see them see it in their own best interests to deny them while somehow still being able to live with themselves and sleep at night. I honestly think that conservatives believe that not everybody is gonna make it in the future. They know that in order for them to make it, some will have to be sacrificed, likely many. They see the handwriting on the wall economically. They are as a consequence willfully ignorant.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
Faith and Marc: If you're not even going to make a pretense of trying to find the Democrat/news-media attacks and insults that you claim Trump is responding to (rather than initiating unprovoked) then I think you have to concede the point. Trump issues many, many gratuitous insults and attacks on an almost continuous basis user Twitter, his rallies, and speeches. It would take a lot of effort to go back to 2015 and 2016, to see how the news media / Democrats started out with their war against Trump. To say that they started it would of course be an understatement. Hours of research would only result in one or two sentences from you handwaving it away. BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER. Trump speaks from the position of president - U.S. presidents have always been considered the most powerful man in the world, and for generations, U.S. presidents are obviously the most hated man in the world. Anything any president says is always carefully scrutinized, and is often immediately, automatically discarded by a sizeable part of the U.S. population, and the world. What immediate, serious harm do you think Trump's insults do to the lives of ordinary citizens? With the news media, it's another story. Though they're quite powerful, they're not as powerful as the president. But they're not nearly as hated either. They pretend to be "journalists" - people who simply report information. When they lie, when they twist and distort to help one political party, they're betraying a public trust, they're doing something that's not their job. While the public is increasingly getting wise to them, there are still a lot of people who blindly trust them, without bothering to fact check them near as much as they do one president. That does a lot more harm to the country than Trump's tweets. As you may or may not know, (I don't think it's been in the news much) Trump made an unannounced visit to troops in Afghanistan over the Thanksgiving holiday. Newsweek's quote went like this;
quote: Trump blasts Newsweek over story on his Thanksgiving plans But it wasn't a lie!!!!! The "more" that was in this description could have included that! Amazingly, Newsweek says they fired this reporter. What probably inspired them to do that was the fact that his trip couldn't be completely covered up, as couldn't the pictures and videos that so obviously show Trump's admiration and respect for low level U.S. soldiers. But a lot of Newsweek skimmers don't know a thing about that firing, or that trip for that matter, so they were successfully fooled. This is only one of countless examples of how the news media can twist and distort without actually lying. It does far more damage to society than Trump's tweets. Here's another link for you and RAZD to enjoy. Fake News Craps All Over Trump’s Thanksgiving Afghanistan Visit With The Troops – Def-Con News
quote:
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So you foresee a class struggle. I honestly think that conservatives believe that not everybody is gonna make it in the future. They know that in order for them to make it, some will have to be sacrificed, likely many. They see the handwriting on the wall economically."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
marc9000 writes: Faith and Marc: If you're not even going to make a pretense of trying to find the Democrat/news-media attacks and insults that you claim Trump is responding to (rather than initiating unprovoked) then I think you have to concede the point. Trump issues many, many gratuitous insults and attacks on an almost continuous basis user Twitter, his rallies, and speeches.
It would take a lot of effort to go back to 2015 and 2016,... Maybe you misunderstood, because that wasn't the challenge. There's no need for you "to go back to 2015 and 2016." You and Faith have repeatedly claimed that Trump's constant insults and attacks are responses to insults and attacks on him, so in Message 3273 I asked you to back that up by matching me one for one. You cite a *current* Democrat or mainstream news media attack or insult, and I'll cite a *current* Trump or Fox News attack or insult, and we'll see who runs out first. If you follow the chain of posts back you'll see that all the tweets and news reports I've cited were from the prior 24 hours or so. So far you and Faith are losing 48 to 1, and you only got the 1 because you made reference to an old Ilhan Omar tweet.
With the news media, it's another story. Though they're quite powerful, they're not as powerful as the president. But they're not nearly as hated either. You use the word "hated," and if we can equate that with approval ratings then you are wrong. Trump's approval rating is currently 41.7%, while the most recent figure I could find for the media is around 30% (PolitiFact | Is trust in the media lower than trust in Congress?).
Trump blasts Newsweek over story on his Thanksgiving plans ... Amazingly, Newsweek says they fired this reporter. Yes, Newsweek did fire Jessica Kwong, which makes no sense. The story had to be filed Wednesday, and Kwong could only report on what the White House was making public at that time. The president's trip to Afghanistan was being kept secret for security reasons. Trump did tweet, and he did golf, just like the story said. The story said nothing about the highly confidential Afghanistan trip because no one knew about it. Even if Kwong somehow became aware of the trip she should have written nothing about it out of concern for the president's safety and security. Her firing is a mystery to me. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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In Opinion | America’s Red State Death Trip - The New York Times Paul Krugman writes about his analysis of longevity, wealth and health in Republican states. They're generally lower than in Democratic states. Why is this so?
Krugman's column is brief and undetailed, but here are the few reasons he mentioned:
--Percy
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
In Opinion | America’s Red State Death Trip Paul Krugman writes about his analysis of longevity, wealth and health in Republican states. They're generally lower than in Democratic states. Why is this so? He said that the longevity was generally the same in 1990, but now people living in a blue state can expect to live 4 years longer than in a red state:
quote: That's a pretty significant change.
Red states had higher suicide rates. and other deaths of despair -- alcoholism and drug overdoses.
quote: and then there is obesity (ibid):
quote: Looks like they need some progressive policies ... or make true the claim that they would rather be dead than democrat. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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