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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 142 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 4201 of 5795 (870093)
01-12-2020 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 4200 by frako
01-12-2020 3:44 AM


Re: Climate Issues - The 5 corrupt pillars of climate denial
"Americas?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4200 by frako, posted 01-12-2020 3:44 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4202 by frako, posted 01-12-2020 7:07 AM Faith has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2925
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 4202 of 5795 (870094)
01-12-2020 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 4201 by Faith
01-12-2020 6:57 AM


Re: Climate Issues - The 5 corrupt pillars of climate denial
Ye well someonoe made a typo, but on the graph itself it says the united states. Still the graph is accurate. You are the second worst polluters so you need to do something.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4201 by Faith, posted 01-12-2020 6:57 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4203 by Faith, posted 01-12-2020 7:12 AM frako has responded
 Message 4205 by NosyNed, posted 01-12-2020 10:08 AM frako has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 142 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 4203 of 5795 (870096)
01-12-2020 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 4202 by frako
01-12-2020 7:07 AM


Re: Climate Issues - The 5 corrupt pillars of climate denial
We've done a LOT over the years, our own environment is quite clean. Sorry, it's China's turn and India's.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4202 by frako, posted 01-12-2020 7:07 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4204 by frako, posted 01-12-2020 7:30 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 4208 by JonF, posted 01-12-2020 12:40 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2925
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(2)
Message 4204 of 5795 (870101)
01-12-2020 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 4203 by Faith
01-12-2020 7:12 AM


Re: Climate Issues - The 5 corrupt pillars of climate denial
Your still the number 2 polluter by volume, india does not come close. Per person you are number 1. And you haven't done anything. China outpaces you in green energy production by far. They are aiming to go 35% green by 2030 and are well underway, while you want to relive the glory days of coal.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4203 by Faith, posted 01-12-2020 7:12 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8951
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


(4)
Message 4205 of 5795 (870107)
01-12-2020 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 4202 by frako
01-12-2020 7:07 AM


Ignored again
Dammit! It's not a typo! The Americas includes us for one. We're here, we're dirty too. But only on a per capita basis.

The whole childish nonsense of "He's worse than I am." is going to kill us all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4202 by frako, posted 01-12-2020 7:07 AM frako has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4206 of 5795 (870109)
01-12-2020 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 4198 by Faith
01-12-2020 1:28 AM


Re: Climate Issues - The 5 corrupt pillars of climate denial
Amuse me Faith:

4. Political denial
Climate change deniers argue we cannot take action because other countries are not taking action. But not all countries are equally guilty of causing current climate change. For example, 25% of the human-produced CO₂ in the atmosphere is generated by the US, another 22% is produced by the EU. Africa produces just under 5%.

I'm not allowed to call this a pack of lles, am I? But that's what it is. "Other countries?" No, SPECIFIC counries, such as China and India, which are major polluters. THEY are the ones that need to do something. And the other big fat lle is presenting this information PER CAPITA. So the US looks like a big polluter and China doesn't. Now THAT IS a big fat political LlE. This should be measured in terms of the percentage of actual contribution to the problem by nation and by that standard we've done our part but China and India and others have not.

So you are saying that we can't take action because other countries are not taking action.

ROFLOL

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 4198 by Faith, posted 01-12-2020 1:28 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4207 by Faith, posted 01-12-2020 12:09 PM RAZD has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 142 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 4207 of 5795 (870111)
01-12-2020 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 4206 by RAZD
01-12-2020 11:56 AM


Re: Climate Issues - The 5 corrupt pillars of climate denial
It is a huge cost to the economy to do what the Left requires of us and there is no need since we've already done lots for the environment and continue to do it. We have no reason to sacrifice our economy for the Left's political ends (which are clearly aimed at destroying America by whatever means possible). Go bug China.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4206 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2020 11:56 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4209 by JonF, posted 01-12-2020 12:45 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 4210 by Theodoric, posted 01-12-2020 12:45 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 4211 by ringo, posted 01-12-2020 1:18 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 4212 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2020 1:54 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 4284 by Percy, posted 01-16-2020 10:20 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6171
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 4208 of 5795 (870113)
01-12-2020 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 4203 by Faith
01-12-2020 7:12 AM


Re: Climate Issues - The 5 corrupt pillars of climate denial
We've done a LOT over the years, our own environment is quite clean.

Trump's undoing what we've achieved as fast as he can.

Donald Trump's Record on Climate Change

quote:
When U.S. government scientists released their latest volume of the National Climate Assessment, it revealed much about the robust, sobering scientific consensus on climate change. It also revealed the striking disconnect between President Donald Trump and essentially every authoritative institution on the threat of global warming. The president rejected the assessment's central findings—based on thousands of climate studies and involving 13 federal agencies—that emissions of carbon dioxide are caused by human activities, are already causing lasting economic damage, and have to be brought rapidly to zero.

"I don't believe it. No, no, I don't believe it," Trump said. Immediately, his cabinet members launched attacks on the report, portraying it as "alarmist" and clinging to Trump's agenda of fossil fuel energy expansion that the science says is at the root of the problem.

...

Suppressing climate and related science. In almost every agency overseeing energy, the environment and health, Trump selected top officials who dispute the mainstream consensus on the urgency of climate action. People with little scientific background, or strong ties to industries they would be regulating, were appointed to scientific leadership positions. One of the administration's first actions was to order scientists and other employees at EPA and other agencies to halt public communications. Several federal scientists working on climate change have said they were silenced, sidelined or demoted. At least three—a senior employee at the Department of Interior, one at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and another at the National Park Service—invoked whistleblower protections. Independent science advisors, such as members of the EPA's Board of Scientific Counselors, have also been sidelined. Scientific content on government websites has been altered and the public's access to data reduced. Climate data from the government's open portal website was removed. So was the EPA's climate change website. The words "climate change" have been purged from government reports, and other reports have been buried, including by officials at the Department of Agriculture. The administration even edited a major Defense Department report to downplay its climate findings. Through speeches and tweets, the president has repeatedly spread misinformation to the public through his climate denial and denigration of renewable energy.

EPA, meanwhile, is working to finalize its proposal to suppress the types of scientific evidence the agency can use in writing its rules. This includes prohibiting the use of well-established, long-term scientific studies underpinning the nation's air pollution rules, a change the fossil fuel industry had sought for years. Known as the "secret science" rule, it has been lambasted by scientists and health experts worldwide. Related, the White House issued a memo offering new ways for fossil fuel and other industries to challenge science-based policies.

Undermining clean energy development and energy efficiency. In its budget proposals, the Trump administration has made clear its resolve to retreat from a federal role in advancing a clean energy economy and maintaining global leadership in the technology. It has proposed repeatedly to radically slash funding for the Department of Energy's Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE), a move that would cripple support for novel and promising technologies for advanced wind turbines, high-tech materials, energy-efficient buildings and more. He has tried to eliminate tax credits for electric vehicles and made several attempts to eliminate the Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy (ARPA-E) program, an incubator for cutting-edge energy research and development. Congress has largely rebuffed this scale of funding cut.


Sorry, it's China's turn and India's

And they are stepping up to the plate after we dropped the ball.

India Announces Stronger Climate Action

quote:
India is one of the few countries on its way to meet its Nationally Determined Commitments stated in the Paris Agreement in 2015. Speaking at the Climate Action Summit in New York, Prime Minister Modi announced an ambitious plan for India’s climate actions, including a massive scale-up of renewable energy.

As Prime Minister Modi said: “the scale of global action required to combat climate change is still lacking…We need a comprehensive approach to include values, lifestyles, and development priorities to combat climate change.” He added that India has come with a strong roadmap and is taking concrete steps domestically.


China is on track to meet its climate change goals nine years early | New Scientist

quote:
China appears on track to reach its carbon goals up to nine years earlier than planned under the Paris agreement, in a potential huge boost for efforts to tackle climate change.

The world’s biggest polluter accounts for a quarter of humanity’s emissions today, making the nation a crucial part of any efforts to avoid dangerous global warming.

Now an analysis has found that China’s emissions could peak at 13 to 16 gigatonnes of CO2 between 2021 and 2025, making what the researchers call a “a great contribution” to meeting the Paris deal’s goal of limiting temperature rises to 2°C. The official target is a peak by “around 2030".



This message is a reply to:
 Message 4203 by Faith, posted 01-12-2020 7:12 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6171
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 4209 of 5795 (870114)
01-12-2020 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 4207 by Faith
01-12-2020 12:09 PM


Re: Climate Issues - The 5 corrupt pillars of climate denial
Addressing climate change is addressing an existential threat. Every year we delay it gets more expensive. It's costing us many billions per7hear.

China is doing their part. Trump is fighting to make the problem worse.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4207 by Faith, posted 01-12-2020 12:09 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member (Idle past 17 days)
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 4210 of 5795 (870115)
01-12-2020 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 4207 by Faith
01-12-2020 12:09 PM


Doing the right thing, just gosh darn cost too much
Well fuck the planet, fuck the future, it costs too much. We have to pay for wars and let the billionaires play, that is more important than our children's future.
You people offend me.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4207 by Faith, posted 01-12-2020 12:09 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18826
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 4211 of 5795 (870117)
01-12-2020 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 4207 by Faith
01-12-2020 12:09 PM


Re: Climate Issues - The 5 corrupt pillars of climate denial
Faith writes:

It is a huge cost to the economy to do what the Left requires of us....


Clean energy isn't necessarily a cost to the economy. Ask a company that sells solar panels and the people they employ.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4207 by Faith, posted 01-12-2020 12:09 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4216 by Theodoric, posted 01-12-2020 4:40 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4212 of 5795 (870119)
01-12-2020 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 4207 by Faith
01-12-2020 12:09 PM


Re: Climate Issues - The 5 corrupt pillars of climate denial
Again you amuse me Faith, right on cue ...

It is a huge cost to the economy to do what the Left requires of us and there is no need since we've already done lots for the environment and continue to do it. We have no reason to sacrifice our economy for the Left's political ends (which are clearly aimed at destroying America by whatever means possible). Go bug China.

quote:
2. Economic denial

The idea that climate change is too expensive to fix is a more subtle form of climate denial. Economists, however, suggest we could fix climate change now by spending 1% of world GDP. Perhaps even less if the cost savings from improved human health and expansion of the global green economy are taken into account. But if we don’t act now, by 2050 it could cost over 20% of world GDP.

The International Monetary Fund estimates that efficient fossil fuel pricing would lower global carbon emissions by 28%, fossil fuel air pollution deaths by 46%, and increase government revenue by 3.8% of the country’s GDP.


So still using bad/wrong arguments. I'll gladly donate 1% of my income to fight climate change, in fact I have already donated significantly more than that to help make up for self-centered and selfish people that want to wallow in coal ash, CO2 etc.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4207 by Faith, posted 01-12-2020 12:09 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1151
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 4213 of 5795 (870127)
01-12-2020 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 4164 by Percy
01-09-2020 1:38 PM


Re: LIBERAL FASCISM IS HERE: IGNORANT FAKE NEWS
What does it mean to be "in every facet an American.

Roosevelt said it, and it would be difficult to ask him, but I'd say that it's a detriment to the well being and sustainability of the U.S. to have a confusion of languages, to have more and more inhabitants who know little or nothing of U.S. history and foundings.

There are financial aid packages for those granted asylum or refugee status. A refugee can get $325/month for each adult and $200/month for each child for eight months, and other benefits for longer. Those granted asylum can get food stamps and Medicaid and other benefits. Is that what you're talking about? What is your objection to these programs?

$22 trillion in debt. And the incentive it gives its receivers to vote for Democrats.

Look at it this way. How well do most people do in life who were raised in poverty?

Many U.S. soldiers who helped win WW2 were raised in poverty.

How well do most people do who were raised in households with average incomes? With very good incomes? In rich families?

Rich families? A lot of spoiled kids end up as drug addicts. How well do people do who are raised in families of gay parents? If all these statistics were added up, I think your position would come up short.

Regions like Puerto Rico (actually a territory) or Syria or Afghanistan seems like good reasons for emigration.

The biggest problem the U.S. has with illegal immigration is from Mexico and Central America, and Cuba. From socialist / communist governments.

The "free stuff" is at most around $5000 over the course of around a year for refugees and asylum grantees. Hopefully that tiny amount helps enough for them to become familiar and productive and living real lives in their new country.

And voting for Democrats.

Anyone purposefully starting brushfires during an exceptionally hot and dry period, especially after all the fire risk warnings, should be arrested, and apparently 24 have. There's nothing to be "delighted" about here. Climate warming has led to Australia experiencing its greater fire risks ever. Anyone trying to dramatize or bring increased attention to climate change by starting dangerous fires should be condemned by everyone, not to mention arrested and tried.

"Delight" is a big red flag about climate change in general, climate change advocates simply can't hide it. There is clear enthusiasm among climate change alarmists. They have an obvious incentive to be happy about it, they've made great strides in the past 3 years at increasing fear about it, and the delight is in the political action they hope it brings, either in financial incentives for themselves, or, more commonly, the satisfaction they seek in bringing down successful, active, free people.

marc9000 writes:

hint; climate-change corruption has more money and power potential than any other political movement since the beginning of time.

Hint: 1) You've never identified this corruption.

If you don't understand how a major government takeover of energy production and public use of energy could become corrupted, I'd just ask you to open a history book. But here's a start, the Bill of Rights contains these few phrases, directed at Congress;

quote:
Congress shall make no law; ...shall not be infringed; ...No soldier shall;...shall not be violated;... No person shall be held;...shall not be construed

U.S. history doesn't seem to indicate that there were scores of people asking "What, what???? Was evidence do founders have to not trust Congress? Are they not elected by the people?" The answer is of course, that they knew something about European history, and about human nature.

Every type of human endeavor get touched by corruption at at least some point. Trump was corrupt with his charity. Does that mean we should cease all human endeavors?

It means we should very carefully watch government ones.

Again, if you've got any evidence of this corruption, let's hear it. You've said this in previous posts, been challenged on it, and have been unable to name anything. Name the corruption this time, else we'll know you're just making it up.

That's all on corruption possibilities, and the cost it could have, for now. I'd like to see if any of my other opponents would care to enlighten you, or pile on me. Could be a nice, additional gauge on liberal dishonesty.

AOC was not making up information. She presented the best evidence from climate change research which says that within not too many years we'll reach a tipping point beyond which nothing much we do will help. The time to act is now.

I think a greater tipping point will come concerning increasing, unsustainable U.S. debt. Though everyone I ask runs and hides from the question, there's little doubt that one major "solution" to climate change is the discontinuation of the use of older fossil fuel equipment, from lawnmowers, to construction equipment, to older cars and trucks. I don't believe a country with $22 trillion of debt can afford to waste useful products on a huge scale that would be required to make any difference in climate, or satisfy the hate and jealousy of so many idle Americans who orgasm at the thought of new government commands.

marc9000 writes:

But, as I've said before, I don't think we're going to see another Democrat president in our lifetimes.

I don't know how long you expect to live, but I'll take that bet. How much you willing to put up?

I'm not feeling as optimistic today, I'd better concede that one.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4164 by Percy, posted 01-09-2020 1:38 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4215 by JonF, posted 01-12-2020 4:36 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 4293 by Percy, posted 01-16-2020 7:49 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1151
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 4214 of 5795 (870128)
01-12-2020 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 4174 by RAZD
01-10-2020 10:52 AM


Re: LIBERAL FASCISM IS HERE: IGNORANT FAKE NEWS
Except that Schrubbia and Trumpy Dumbty have both increased the size of government more than Obama or Clinton.

I'll let that one pass, but thanks for saying it! And 5 green dots too!

A fake news piece trying to make GOP fascism acceptable to their base. Worked for you.

Yes it did, since you didn't address one bit of it.

marc9000 writes:

It's always the same, they love government's attacks on the "rich", believing the rich will dutifully knuckle under to government mandates, make sacrifices, and keep on producing and supplying employment for them. What happens more often than not, is "the rich", being much smarter than government agents, find a way to satisfy government mandates by raising their costs not only enough to cover the mandates, but to include a nice little raise for themselves, at the increasing expense of the public.

Like the health insurance companies did.

VERY, VERY GOOD! If the government wouldn't have meddled, the health insurance companies wouldn't have profited from it. I'll be keeping an eye out for another brilliant flash from you, sometime in the next..... 5 years or so I hope.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4174 by RAZD, posted 01-10-2020 10:52 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4235 by RAZD, posted 01-13-2020 1:06 PM marc9000 has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6171
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 4215 of 5795 (870129)
01-12-2020 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 4213 by marc9000
01-12-2020 4:21 PM


Re: LIBERAL FASCISM IS HERE: IGNORANT FAKE NEWS
I think a greater tipping point will come concerning increasing, unsustainable U.S. debt

Complain to the Republicans. And their massive giveaways to the rich.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4213 by marc9000, posted 01-12-2020 4:21 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
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