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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Percy
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Posts: 19631
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 5506 of 5639 (873841)
03-20-2020 10:28 AM


The Dangers of Denial
Sandy Hook wasn't real, climate change isn't real, the pandemic isn't real. They're all just liberal plots.

When are conservatives going to tire of this mindless formula and start basing their thinking on facts. The answer is never. Facts don't convince most people. Most people's minds don't work that way unless the facts smack them right in the face. Emotions and social pressures are a huge component of how people form opinions. One's social group plays a large role.

And that is why it is largely conservatives who still believe the pandemic is a hoax, as reported in several places recently, this one from today's Post: Coronavirus deniers and hoaxers persist despite dire warnings, claiming ‘it’s mass hysteria’.

But probably the article that says it best is Her Facebook Friends Asked If Anyone Was Actually Sick. She Had an Answer. It tells the story of how a conservative family in Louisiana got smacked in the face:

quote:
Then Mark Frilot — 45 years old, “never, ever sick” — came home with a fever.

In the haze of days that followed, Ms. Frilot, a 43-year-old oil-and-gas analyst, occupied one world, the rest of her community in Kenner, La., another. She saw her friends making jokes on social media about the coronavirus — eye-roll emojis, Fox News talking points, Rush Limbaugh quotes writing off the threat. And then one person asked if anyone really had this thing.

Ms. Frilot had an answer to that.

“I have been seeing a lot of posts about people taking this virus lightly and joking about it,” she began in a Facebook post. “Mark has tested positive for the coronavirus.”
...
Today, Ms. Frilot’s husband of 12 years remains quarantined in the ICU, hooked up to a ventilator, one of the 280-plus cases in Louisiana of the novel coronavirus rapidly spreading across the United States.
...
It was a revelation for the conservative suburbs of New Orleans, where many had written off the pandemic as liberal fear-mongering.
...
The language they used was the language politicians and media figures were also using. On March 8, when Mr. Frilot first went to urgent care, President Trump retweeted a joke from his White House social media director about Nero fiddling as Rome burned. The next night, Sean Hannity said on his prime time Fox News show that the virus was the media’s attempt to “bludgeon” Mr. Trump with “this new hoax.”
...
Ms. Pitfield lives in Metairie, about 10 minutes from Kenner. Like many in the area, which is represented in Congress by House Minority Whip Steve Scalise, she is a supporter of President Trump. She, and many of her friends, she said, believed that the coronavirus was a political stunt and media-induced hysteria.


And then finally light bulbs go on in ways like this:

quote:
Ms. DeLaup had “mixed emotions” at first about the virus. On the one hand, her fellow Trump supporters were insistent that it was being blown out of proportion, that the flu was far deadlier, that everyone was being ridiculous. On the other hand, she thought, “It’s not just us: Everyone around the world is reacting like this. Would everyone be throwing things out of proportion? Just to try and hurt the president?”

Many people see reality through a glass darkly filtered by the opinions and attitudes of those around them. Conservatives in this country have been conditioned by three years of Trump to distrust the media, and it wouldn't be surprising to learn, after this is all over, that conservatives were affected more than liberals.

Studies of coronavirus transmission say that though it can survive long periods ranging from 30 minutes to 72 hours in the air and on various surfaces, it rapidly loses virulence. Despite this it is somehow very contagious, so I think they’re missing something. I plan to take extreme precautions.

Later today I will be playing tennis (outside because the indoor clubs have all closed). We'll keep our distance from each other, and especially with this partner because he works with a vulnerable population. Before starting we will rinse our hands in 70% alcohol because we'll be touching the balls, and because the balls also give off bursts of nap particles when struck or when they bounce.

Afterward I'll be doing the grocery shopping and I'll be wearing a bandana. I'd wear a mask if I could find one. When I return home the grocery bags will sit in the garage for 48 hours. Bags of groceries requiring refrigeration will be placed in the garage fridge (cold doesn't affect the virus). My clothes will be thrown in the washer and I'll take a shower.

I advise everyone, conservative and liberal and everyone, to take a similar level of caution. Infection risks serious illness hooked up to a ventilator for weeks. And ask yourself for how much longer will sufficient ventilators be available? No one should have to lie on a hospital gurney listening to doctors in a triage debate about whether you or someone else deserves the last available ventilator. The vaccine will likely not be available until summer next year at the earliest and hopefully we will all get our immunity from the vaccine and not from the virus itself.

The seriousness of the infection caused by the virus varies widely. Why is not yet understood. The latest estimate of mortality is 1.4% for the non-elderly (Lower death rate estimates for coronavirus provide glimmer of hope - STAT), and that is good news if it is true as prior estimates were 2%-3%, but it is still very high.

The mortality rate for the flu is less than a tenth as great, and that figure includes the vulnerable elderly population. But it also varies widely from year to year depending upon how accurately experts have guessed which strain of flu will prevail in any given winter. They're forced to guess considerably in advance because of the time it takes to gear up vaccine production. When they guess right the mortality rate is lower, when wrong it's considerably higher. According to the CDC (Burden of Influenza) annual deaths vary between 12,000 and 61,000 each year. Without the vaccine it would be much, much higher.

That's the situation we're in with the coronavirus. There is no vaccine. If we don't practice social distancing and use serious sanitizing practices to keep infection rates low then the number of deaths could reach into the millions.

--Percy


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19631
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(4)
Message 5507 of 5639 (873843)
03-20-2020 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 5503 by JonF
03-20-2020 9:50 AM


Re: I'll just drop this here
Republican Jim Inhofe dumped up to $450,000 in stock — the third GOP senator implicated in scandal: report

Three Republicans so far.

And zero Democrats.

The polarization of political opinion can lead us to believe that those whose views we share have a monopoly on morality, so it's important to make clear that that's not what we're saying. There's another reason why zero Democrats have been caught.

The Republicans were caught sending one message publicly (the coronavirus threat is a fiction) and another privately (the coronavirus threat is very serious). It was dishonorable of them to make public expressions that everything's fine while privately dumping stock.

In contrast the Democrats had only one message, that the coronavirus represented a very serious public health threat. It would make perfect sense and be perfectly honorable for them to act on the convictions they publicly expressed by dumping stock.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5503 by JonF, posted 03-20-2020 9:50 AM JonF has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19631
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 5508 of 5639 (873845)
03-20-2020 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 5450 by Percy
03-17-2020 7:03 AM


Re: Is the Cure Worse Than the Disease?
While it's still very faint, more are adding their voices to the clamor that ruining the economy and people financially for years to come is the wrong answer. The amount of misery and death caused by economic depression, starvation, homelessness, homicide, suicide, child abuse, and so on may be greater than just letting the virus run its course. Here's my proposal for an alternative approach to the coronavirus:

  • Immediately begin mobilizing for the massive health crisis that is about to confront us, whatever that requires. I'm not a medical professional and won't attempt any detail.

  • Nationalize ventilator manufactures and rapidly ramp up production.

  • Use Navy hospital ships.

  • Turn cruise ships into floating hospitals.

  • Continue the lockdown for a couple more weeks, then reopen everything. Bars, restaurants, schools, businesses, travel, everything.

--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5450 by Percy, posted 03-17-2020 7:03 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5509 by jar, posted 03-20-2020 10:58 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 5532 by Percy, posted 03-23-2020 2:49 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 5509 of 5639 (873846)
03-20-2020 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 5508 by Percy
03-20-2020 10:55 AM


Re: Is the Cure Worse Than the Disease?
If Italy could get by with only a few hundred traffic fatalities a day they would think it a miracle.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5508 by Percy, posted 03-20-2020 10:55 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 5510 of 5639 (873861)
03-20-2020 3:10 PM


Trump continues to lie and downplay the danger
Dr. Fauci swiftly fact-checks Trump on COVID-19 testing shortages: ‘That is a reality that is happening now’

quote:
“I’m not hearing it,” Trump said. “We don’t want everybody to go out and get a test because there’s no reason for it.”

Another reporter came back to the topic less than three minutes later in the news conference, and asked Fauci whether testing availability was meeting public demand.

“I get the same calls that many of you get,” Fauci said. “Someone goes into a place who has a symptom and wants to get a test and for one reason or other, multiple logistic, technical, what have you — they can’t get it. That is a reality that is happening now. Is it the same as it was a few weeks ago? Absolutely not, because as the secretary and others have said, right now that we have the private sector involved the availability — not only just availability, but the implementation of the availability is getting better and better and better. Having said that, I understand and empathize with the people who rightfully are sayin, ‘I’m trying to get a test, and I can’t.'”


ABE WATCH: Dr. Fauci facepalms right behind Trump after he rants about ‘Deep State Department’

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 5516 by RAZD, posted 03-21-2020 11:58 AM JonF has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 5511 of 5639 (873876)
03-20-2020 7:02 PM


The Administration is out of control
Trump Told Governors to Buy Own Virus Supplies, Then Outbid Them

quote:
President Donald Trump’s directive for governors to buy their own medical supplies to fight the coronavirus has run into a big problem -- the federal government.

Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker told Trump during a video conference on Thursday that his state three times lost out to the federal government on purchases of critical supplies, creating an awkward moment during the made-for-TV event at Federal Emergency Management Agency headquarters in Washington.

“I’ve got a feeling that if someone has the chance to sell to you and to sell to me, I am going to lose on every one of those,” a sheepish-sounding Baker told Trump, who chuckled at the remark.

The president replied he still wants governors to seek out their own medical equipment, like protective gear for doctors and nurses as well as respirators, but acknowledged the federal government has greater buying power than any state.

“Prices are always a component of that also. And maybe that’s why you lost to the feds, OK, that’s probably why,” Trump said.



Replies to this message:
 Message 5512 by Faith, posted 03-20-2020 7:16 PM JonF has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5512 of 5639 (873878)
03-20-2020 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 5511 by JonF
03-20-2020 7:02 PM


Re: The Administration is out of control
You said something about wanting me to come to this thread, I havce no idea why.

As for your current post, what's your point? Governers simply have that responsibility, the federal government doesnt' and if there was a conflict in one case it needs a lot more spelling out than your quote is giving it. Anything about Trump is always skewed or out of context in some way.

I've heard a number of times in the last week that some states have had laws in place limiting how much medical equipment hospitals and other medical agencies are allowed to buy. Some kind of social engineering liberal madness. These laws are causing shortages in their states at this time of need that they seem to be trying to blame on the federal government. New York is one such state out of something like 36 that passed this idiotic law.

Trump has been remarkably organized and persistent in his dealings with this crisis but you call him "out of control?"

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5511 by JonF, posted 03-20-2020 7:02 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5513 by JonF, posted 03-21-2020 10:22 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 5517 by Percy, posted 03-21-2020 12:03 PM Faith has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 5513 of 5639 (873914)
03-21-2020 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 5512 by Faith
03-20-2020 7:16 PM


Re: The Administration is out of control
The Federal government has responsibility for nationwide problems. Trump just can't handle it.

Trump has been remarkably persistent in running from the issue. Organized, no the opposite is true.

None of what we've posted is out of context. Trump's so far out of his depth he's looking up at the Titanic.

The first coronavirus case appeared in South Korea and the US on the same day. Within days South Korea was testing 10,000 people PER DAY. The US has tested a TOTAL of 135,000 people. The number of cases in South Korea are declining. The number of cases in the US is growing exponentially.

All due to the incompetent administration.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5512 by Faith, posted 03-20-2020 7:16 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5514 by jar, posted 03-21-2020 10:40 AM JonF has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 5514 of 5639 (873918)
03-21-2020 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 5513 by JonF
03-21-2020 10:22 AM


Re: The Administration is out of control
JonF writes:

The number of cases in the US is growing exponentially.

Not if we stop testing and reporting. To end this pandemic in the US all we need to do is stop testing and stop reporting.

It really is that simple.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5513 by JonF, posted 03-21-2020 10:22 AM JonF has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5515 by AZPaul3, posted 03-21-2020 11:36 AM jar has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4854
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 5515 of 5639 (873925)
03-21-2020 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 5514 by jar
03-21-2020 10:40 AM


Re: The Administration is out of control
To end this pandemic in the US all we need to do is stop testing and stop reporting.

And this would provide additional employment opportunities.

First, we would need additional backhoe operators. Then communities would need to stockpile lime like we now do with road salts. Finally, we could hire those with pickups and flatbed trucks to periodically canvas neighborhoods collecting bodies.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5514 by jar, posted 03-21-2020 10:40 AM jar has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20628
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 5516 of 5639 (873927)
03-21-2020 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 5510 by JonF
03-20-2020 3:10 PM


Re: Trump continues to lie and downplay the danger
Let's add the republican senators to the list of those responsible for US failure to properly attack the problem -- they had their chance to remove him and have someone else in charge.

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 5510 by JonF, posted 03-20-2020 3:10 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19631
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 5517 of 5639 (873928)
03-21-2020 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 5512 by Faith
03-20-2020 7:16 PM


Re: The Administration is out of control
Faith writes:

Governors simply have that responsibility, the federal government doesn't and if there was a conflict in one case it needs a lot more spelling out than your quote is giving it. Anything about Trump is always skewed or out of context in some way.

The point of the article JonF cited that you're responding to (Trump Told Governors to Buy Own Virus Supplies, Then Outbid Them) is that Trump instructed states to make their own purchases of medical supplies to fight the coronavirus threat, then outbid them. In the article Trump admitted that this is true:

quote:
“Prices are always a component of that also. And maybe that’s why you lost to the feds, OK, that’s probably why.”

Trump never says how the federal government is going to make the purchased supplies available to the states. Unless Trump plans to send those supplies out of the country, there is nowhere he could deploy those supplies that isn't in a state. Governors have a right to know where all the masks and gloves and ventilators are going. Are they going to the VA and military hospitals, or are going to be deployed to regular hospitals in the states, or some combination?

Medicare patients are not treated at the VA or at military hospitals but at non-governmental hospitals. If Federal bidding leaves these facilities bereft of the necessary supplies because the VA and the military has them all, then that's something they need to fix. I assume you do want the doctors and nurses in your nearby hospitals to have masks and gloves and ventilators?

This also follows the Trump pattern of refusing responsibility for anything he perceives isn't to his political advantage, such as national disasters like this. He's very consistent.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5512 by Faith, posted 03-20-2020 7:16 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5518 by jar, posted 03-21-2020 12:34 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 5521 by Faith, posted 03-21-2020 2:22 PM Percy has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 5518 of 5639 (873931)
03-21-2020 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 5517 by Percy
03-21-2020 12:03 PM


Re: The Administration is out of control
Percy writes:

Governors have a right to know where all the masks and gloves and ventilators are going.

Wanna hint?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5517 by Percy, posted 03-21-2020 12:03 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1660
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5519 of 5639 (873934)
03-21-2020 2:06 PM


This is the crisis that will make future ones less bad
This is just typical to wait for a catastrophe to stockpile up too late.

All the crap about having to spend a trillion on the military always caused me to wish a few billion dollars could be spent to prepare for a pandemic.

Now we know what we needed the government to stock up on all along.


  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 5520 of 5639 (873935)
03-21-2020 2:20 PM


Now he's killing people with his lies

Replies to this message:
 Message 5524 by AZPaul3, posted 03-21-2020 6:30 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
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