Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 78 (8965 total)
60 online now:
AZPaul3, frako, jar, JonF, kjsimons, PaulK, Percy (Admin), Stile, Tangle (9 members, 51 visitors)
Newest Member: javier martinez
Post Volume: Total: 873,121 Year: 4,869/23,288 Month: 1,774/1,286 Week: 88/353 Day: 15/20 Hour: 2/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5521 of 5639 (873936)
03-21-2020 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 5517 by Percy
03-21-2020 12:03 PM


Re: The Administration is out of control
You're asking a lot of questions and doing a lot of speculating. I don't know the answers, you don't knjow the answers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5517 by Percy, posted 03-21-2020 12:03 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5522 by JonF, posted 03-21-2020 3:35 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 5525 by Percy, posted 03-21-2020 10:10 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 5522 of 5639 (873943)
03-21-2020 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 5521 by Faith
03-21-2020 2:22 PM


Re: The Administration is out of control
You're ignoring a lot of facts.

Trump's Statements About the Coronavirus

quote:
Jan. 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” — Trump in a CNBC interview.

Jan. 30: “We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five — and those people are all recuperating successfully. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it’s going to have a very good ending for us … that I can assure you.” — Trump in a speech in Michigan.

Feb. 10: “Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases — 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.” — Trump at the White House. (See our item “Will the New Coronavirus ‘Go Away’ in April?“)

Feb. 14: “There’s a theory that, in April, when it gets warm — historically, that has been able to kill the virus. So we don’t know yet; we’re not sure yet. But that’s around the corner.” — Trump in speaking to National Border Patrol Council members.

Feb. 23: “We have it very much under control in this country.” — Trump in speaking to reporters.

Feb. 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!” — Trump in a tweet.

Feb. 26: “So we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.” — Trump at a White House briefing.

Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” — Trump at a press conference.

Feb. 26: “I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.” — Trump at a press conference, when asked if “U.S. schools should be preparing for a coronavirus spreading.”

Feb. 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” — Trump at a White House meeting with African American leaders.

Feb. 29: “And I’ve gotten to know these professionals. They’re incredible. And everything is under control. I mean, they’re very, very cool. They’ve done it, and they’ve done it well. Everything is really under control.” — Trump in a speech at the CPAC conference outside Washington, D.C.

March 4: “[W]e have a very small number of people in this country [infected]. We have a big country. The biggest impact we had was when we took the 40-plus people [from a cruise ship]. … We brought them back. We immediately quarantined them. But you add that to the numbers. But if you don’t add that to the numbers, we’re talking about very small numbers in the United States.” — Trump at a White House meeting with airline CEOs.

March 4: “Well, I think the 3.4% is really a false number.” — Trump in an interview on Fox News, referring to the percentage of diagnosed COVID-19 patients worldwide who had died, as reported by the World Health Organization. (See our item “Trump and the Coronavirus Death Rate.”)

March 7: “No, I’m not concerned at all. No, we’ve done a great job with it.” — Trump, when asked by reporters if he was concerned about the arrival of the coronavirus in the Washington, D.C., area.

March 9: “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!” — Trump in a tweet.

March 10: “And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” — Trump after meeting with Republican senators.

A day later, on March 11, the WHO declared the global outbreak a pandemic.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 5521 by Faith, posted 03-21-2020 2:22 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5523 by frako, posted 03-21-2020 5:25 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2904
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 5523 of 5639 (873947)
03-21-2020 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 5522 by JonF
03-21-2020 3:35 PM


Re: The Administration is out of control
ut thats just the evil enemy of the people media, reporting on what trump says or does. That shouldnt count.

Trumps true statements is the forth try after the shit hit the fan. everything else is fake news.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5522 by JonF, posted 03-21-2020 3:35 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4854
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 5524 of 5639 (873950)
03-21-2020 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5520 by JonF
03-21-2020 2:20 PM


Re: Now he's killing people with his lies
Sorry. Can't lay this one on The Orange Bastard.

Nigeria has had this thing for Chloroquine and COVID-19 for more than a month now.

Nigerians React To Use Of Chloroquine For Fighting Coronavirus

Started with Chinese reports.

I don't know if I would trust South China Morning Post on this one.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5520 by JonF, posted 03-21-2020 2:20 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19636
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 5525 of 5639 (873956)
03-21-2020 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 5521 by Faith
03-21-2020 2:22 PM


Re: The Administration is out of control
Faith writes:

You're asking a lot of questions and doing a lot of speculating. I don't know the answers, you don't knjow the answers.

I raised the same issues raised in the article that you were ignoring. I asked a single question (the second was rhetorical).

Did you not hear the press briefing today where Trump said that henceforth the federal government would drop out of any bidding where they were competing against states? Apparently I do know the answers.

—Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5521 by Faith, posted 03-21-2020 2:22 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16052
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 5526 of 5639 (873981)
03-23-2020 2:25 AM


McCarthy Blacklists - a real witch-hunt
Before claiming that McCarthy was vindicated consider the other side.

Marsha Hunt - now 102 was one of the actresses on the blacklist.

BBC

The Hollywood Ten were writers called to testify before HUAC and jailed for refusing to name names.

Marsha's problems with the authorities may have begun when she joined the Committee for the First Amendment - a group of liberal actors who supported the Hollywood Ten. Among those who flew to Washington were Danny Kaye, Gene Kelly and John Huston. Also there were Lauren Bacall and Humphrey Bogart, married and the biggest stars Warner Bros had.

"We were a brigade to defend those who'd been blacklisted or were under suspicion," Hunt remembers. "We were serious citizens trying to set Washington straight: we were not a bunch of Reds. We were headed by the Bogarts so we were a pretty spiffy team.

"I knew nothing about communism but I just thought that as it was a legal party other people had the right to join the darned thing if they wanted to. But it was a time of hysteria and all of us who spoke out against blacklists were punished in some way or other. There was a very strong right wing in the movie business."

"We live, we proudly insist, in a free country. By that was meant, I was sure, that you were free to your opinions and actions if they didn't break any law. The anti-Reds were fighting Americans' freedoms. I didn't know the first thing about communism - never studied it, never learned about it. I must have known a few communists but I didn't care - that was their business, not mine."

“Many younger people know little about the Hollywood blacklist," she says. "Sometimes I'm asked if it could ever happen again. I hope America learned from what happened all those years ago. But how can you ever be sure?"

Some people, it seems, want it to happen again.

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 5527 by Faith, posted 03-23-2020 6:27 AM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5527 of 5639 (873986)
03-23-2020 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 5526 by PaulK
03-23-2020 2:25 AM


Re: McCarthy Blacklists - a real witch-hunt
Marsha's problems with the authorities may have begun when she joined the Committee for the First Amendment - a group of liberal actors who supported the Hollywood Ten. Among those who flew to Washington were Danny Kaye, Gene Kelly and John Huston. Also there were Lauren Bacall and Humphrey Bogart, married and the biggest stars Warner Bros had.
"We were a brigade to defend those who'd been blacklisted or were under suspicion," Hunt remembers. "We were serious citizens trying to set Washington straight: we were not a bunch of Reds. We were headed by the Bogarts so we were a pretty spiffy team.

"I knew nothing about communism but I just thought that as it was a legal party other people had the right to join the darned thing if they wanted to. But it was a time of hysteria and all of us who spoke out against blacklists were punished in some way or other. There was a very strong right wing in the movie business."

"We live, we proudly insist, in a free country. By that was meant, I was sure, that you were free to your opinions and actions if they didn't break any law. The anti-Reds were fighting Americans' freedoms. I didn't know the first thing about communism - never studied it, never Marsha's problems with the authorities may have begun when she joined the Committee for the First Amendment - a group of liberal actors who supported the Hollywood Ten. Among those who flew to Washington were Danny Kaye, Gene Kelly and John Huston. Also there were Lauren Bacall and Humphrey Bogart, married and the biggest stars Warner Bros had.
"We were a brigade to defend those who'd been blacklisted or were under suspicion," Hunt remembers. "We were serious citizens trying to set Washington straight: we were not a bunch of Reds. We were headed by the Bogarts so we were a pretty spiffy team.

"I knew nothing about communism but I just thought that as it was a legal party other people had the right to join the darned thing if they wanted to. But it was a time of hysteria and all of us who spoke out against blacklists were punished in some way or other. There was a very strong right wing in the movie business."

"We live, we proudly insist, in a free country. By that was meant, I was sure, that you were free to your opinions and actions if they didn't break any law. The anti-Reds were fighting Americans' freedoms. I didn't know the first thing about communism - never studied it, never learned about it. I must have known a few communists but I didn't care - that was their business, not mine."

She's extremely naive, thinking it was just another political party anyone should have the right to join and her complete ignorance about what Communism is and self righteousness about not knowing, are probably the whole mentality that brought down the necessary effort to identify this malignant ideology in America.

Also, McCarthy couldn't blacklist anyone, right? So that would have been the doing of the studios in Hollywood.

I don't think the blacklisting should be called "the other side" as you call it, since it mostly functioned as a distraction from the whole point of the investigations. It overshadowed the real importance of investigations into Communist activity in the US. It's too bad if mismanagement of the proceedings succeeded in derailing that effort, which apparently it did. Prosecuting people who had no connection with the Communist Party or even those who had joined but naively had no idea what it's really all about, seems to have buried the real point of the whole thing, and now Communist ideas, which really are Un American, contrary to all our Constitutional freedoms, those that were invoked in this effort to destroy McCarthy's investigations, now have become powerful influences in the country. it's certainly correct that young people don't know anything about all this but the blacklisting is not the main part of what they don't know.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5526 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2020 2:25 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5528 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2020 1:23 PM Faith has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16052
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 5528 of 5639 (874003)
03-23-2020 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 5527 by Faith
03-23-2020 6:27 AM


Re: McCarthy Blacklists - a real witch-hunt
quote:
She's extremely naive,

Yes, she thought she lived in a free country, and patriotically standing up for the Constitution wouldn’t be punished.

quote:
... thinking it was just another political party anyone should have the right to join and her complete ignorance about what Communism is and self righteousness about not knowing, are probably the whole mentality that brought down the necessary effort to identify this malignant ideology in America.

The communists were a legal political party, for some members that’s all they were. But I see you’re a fan of the witch-hunt and the blacklists and likely think they weren’t extreme enough.

quote:
Also, McCarthy couldn't blacklist anyone, right? So that would have been the doing of the studios in Hollywood.

Nevertheless he encouraged it with his red-baiting and it was his committee that jailed the Hollywood Ten.

quote:
I don't think the blacklisting should be called "the other side" as you call it, since it mostly functioned as a distraction from the whole point of the investigations

The point of the “investigations” was to persecute current and former communists and their associates and anyone who stood up for them. The blacklists continued that mentality.

quote:
Prosecuting people who had no connection with the Communist Party or even those who had joined but naively had no idea what it's really all about, seems to have buried the real point of the whole thing...

Then maybe McCarthy and co. shouldn’t have done that,

quote:
... contrary to all our Constitutional freedoms, those that were invoked in this effort to destroy McCarthy's investigations,

Arguing that you have to get rid of freedoms to defend them is not a sensible position.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5527 by Faith, posted 03-23-2020 6:27 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5529 by Faith, posted 03-23-2020 1:42 PM PaulK has responded
 Message 5530 by Faith, posted 03-23-2020 1:50 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5529 of 5639 (874004)
03-23-2020 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 5528 by PaulK
03-23-2020 1:23 PM


Bye-bye America?
I'm not arguing that we should get rid of freedoms but this is a very tricky problem where an ideology that is actually directly opposed to our form of government can get a foothold and even potentially overthrow it because of people's ignorance. This is true not only of Communism but of Islam, Nazism, White Supermacy and probably others. How should this situation be dealt with? Perhaps a massive education program? I'd be for that but the Left would kill it for Communism and Islam. Racism? Xenophobia? What then? Just accept that America was a great experiment that failed and now we're looking at totalitarian tyranny? Yeah I know the Left doesn't see it this way but they are wrong.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5528 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2020 1:23 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5531 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2020 2:38 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5530 of 5639 (874005)
03-23-2020 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 5528 by PaulK
03-23-2020 1:23 PM


Re: McCarthy Blacklists - a real witch-hunt
The point of the “investigations” was to persecute current and former communists and their associates and anyone who stood up for them.

Then it was badly planned because this is about a dangerous ideology that most people embrace ignorantly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5528 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2020 1:23 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16052
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 5531 of 5639 (874006)
03-23-2020 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 5529 by Faith
03-23-2020 1:42 PM


Re: Bye-bye America?
quote:
I'm not arguing that we should get rid of freedoms...

You certainly sound like you are.

quote:
... but this is a very tricky problem where an ideology that is actually directly opposed to our form of government can get a foothold and even potentially overthrow it because of people's ignorance.

So long as they keep within the law people should be free to follow whatever ideology they choose. Radical Islam - and White Supremacy - are dangerous for the terrorism they inspire, but it is the terrorism that should be prosecuted, not simple belief.

quote:
This is true not only of Communism but of Islam, Nazism, White Supermacy and probably others. How should this situation be dealt with? Perhaps a massive education program? I'd be for that but the Left would kill it for Communism and Islam.

The left would kill your propaganda program for the lies it tells. Remember you want to label centrists as communists.

quote:
Just accept that America was a great experiment that failed and now we're looking at totalitarian tyranny?

Totalitarian tyranny is coming from the Right. That’s what your defence of McCarthy is all about. It’s certainly not about the Soviet Union any more. And that was the only sensible basis for any sort of investigation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5529 by Faith, posted 03-23-2020 1:42 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5533 by Faith, posted 03-23-2020 3:19 PM PaulK has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19636
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 5532 of 5639 (874007)
03-23-2020 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 5508 by Percy
03-20-2020 10:55 AM


Re: Is the Cure Worse Than the Disease?
Geez, this is scary, Trump agrees with something I said: Trump Says Coronavirus Cure Cannot ‘Be Worse Than the Problem Itself’, see message subtitle. Of course, I was just raising a possibility for consideration, but Trump is inconstant and has trouble staying a course. Just as has been noted, he's guided by whatever he thinks will give him the most positive play in the news cycle:

quote:
But at the White House, in recent days, there has been a growing sentiment that medical experts were allowed to set policy that has hurt the economy, and there has been a push to find ways to let people start returning to work. Some Republican lawmakers have also pleaded with the White House to find ways to restart the economy, as financial markets continue to slide and job losses for April could be in the millions.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5508 by Percy, posted 03-20-2020 10:55 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5533 of 5639 (874010)
03-23-2020 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 5531 by PaulK
03-23-2020 2:38 PM


Re: Bye-bye America?
Unbelievable blindness.

But completely expected.

Wonder how long before bye-bye America?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5531 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2020 2:38 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5534 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2020 3:39 PM Faith has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16052
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 5534 of 5639 (874013)
03-23-2020 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 5533 by Faith
03-23-2020 3:19 PM


Re: Bye-bye America?
quote:
Unbelievable blindness.

As usual what you call “blindness” is seeing things you don’t want seen. What is the point of falsely labelling anyone even slightly left wing as an extremist ? Or banning Islam because of the acts of comparatively few, condemned by many within Islam ?

No good or honest purpose is served by either. Tyranny is the point. A one-party state, where freedom of religion is no more. That’s the point.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5533 by Faith, posted 03-23-2020 3:19 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5535 by Faith, posted 03-23-2020 3:43 PM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5535 of 5639 (874014)
03-23-2020 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 5534 by PaulK
03-23-2020 3:39 PM


Re: Bye-bye America?
Where did I mention any solution in relation to people?

As for Islam, the religion itself advocates violence against the infidel. Just because not all Muslims follow that directive doesn't mean it isn't there if anyone decides to follow it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5534 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2020 3:39 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5536 by Faith, posted 03-23-2020 3:49 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 5537 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2020 3:51 PM Faith has responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020