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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 74 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 5731 of 5795 (874819)
04-10-2020 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 5725 by Coragyps
04-10-2020 4:09 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
California has a very large Asian population and in the Fall there weren't any restrictions on travel, so there's the possibility that it came from China that early and got confused with the flu. The symptoms my family described didn't sound like the usual flu or cold but something unfamiliar. That may just be hindsight from our current situation with the Corona virus of course. The only way we'll be able to find out is with a reliable test for antibodies. Seems a shame if a huge part of the California population has already had it and could be out working but nobody knows it.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 74 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 5732 of 5795 (874820)
04-10-2020 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5726 by JonF
04-10-2020 4:47 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
This is because antibodies for the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 look very similar to antibodies that respond to coronaviruses that cause other illnesses, such as the common cold.

Tests could mistakenly identify antibodies as being for the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, producing a false positive. Dweik said it will take more time to develop a test that can accurately detect the right antibodies.

I kind of suspect that the phelobotomist at Roseland hospital knows her business well enough do avoid confusing other antibodies with Corona antibodies, or she'd at least mention the possibility if it was a problem. The "experts" on all aspects of this virus situation have been wrong so many times already why should you prefer their opinion on this subject?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5726 by JonF, posted 04-10-2020 4:47 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5734 by JonF, posted 04-10-2020 9:28 PM Faith has responded
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4312
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 5733 of 5795 (874821)
04-10-2020 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 5727 by JonF
04-10-2020 4:55 PM


Re: Could he be stupider?
Joke's on him! Antibiotics don't work on a virus.

Now OTOH, a vaccine ... .

Though he does have a point about the virus being so much smarter ... than Trump.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5727 by JonF, posted 04-10-2020 4:55 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6169
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 5734 of 5795 (874834)
04-10-2020 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 5732 by Faith
04-10-2020 8:30 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
In what manner have the experts been wrong on coronavirus so many times? Would you like to compare that with Trump’s errors?

The phlebotomist could be the world's greatest expert on antibodies and she still needs a test to perform. Equipment, reagants, procedure. We don't have validated and approved tests. So how did she get at the coronavirus antibodies?

I'm not saying the report is true, I'm not saying it's false. A search didn't turn up anything useful. I need more evidence to reach a conclusion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5732 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 8:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5736 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 11:22 PM JonF has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5623
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 5735 of 5795 (874839)
04-10-2020 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5723 by Faith
04-10-2020 3:09 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
A phlebotomist working at Roseland Community Hospital said Thursday that 30% to 50% of patients tested for the coronavirus have antibodies while only around 10% to 20% of those tested have the active virus.

As far as I know, the Roseland testing site has only been open for a few days. So this has o be recent. It's a part of Chicago that likely has many cases. So, yes, it is possible that there has been some herd immunity build up.

But this is April, not November. It does not make it more likely in California in November.

I think there was an antibody test made available, but that is very recent. And I'm not at all sure of its reliability. It probably has not been well tested.

I do hope the report is correct. We will need some sort of herd immunity build up to allow us to get back to ordinary ways of behaving. But it is too early to be sure of anything.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5723 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 3:09 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 74 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 5736 of 5795 (874842)
04-10-2020 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 5734 by JonF
04-10-2020 9:28 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
Trump has been following the experts that hve been wrong. They just keep changing their numbers. Other experts are criticizing them but nobody listens to the others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5734 by JonF, posted 04-10-2020 9:28 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 74 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 5737 of 5795 (874843)
04-10-2020 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 5735 by nwr
04-10-2020 11:09 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
I just heard an expert on the Mark Levin show but I tuned in too late to hear his name and although I kept listening it was never repeated. Strong German accent with something else mixed in. Epidemiologist and a few other credentials. Said big mistake to close the schools because children need to be exposed to develop immunity, that the people who should be protected are the elderly and others known to be vulnerable. It's only by healthy people being exposed that herd immunity will be developed and it's only by developing herd immunity that the vulnerable can rejoin society without danger. Made sense I thought. Levin was also talking about how the numbers of infections and deaths are terribly inflated, how other causes of death are often not distinguished from the virus, how people who need other kinds of medical attention aren't getting it because everything is dedicated to the virus..

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5735 by nwr, posted 04-10-2020 11:09 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3931
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 5738 of 5795 (874846)
04-10-2020 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 5726 by JonF
04-10-2020 4:47 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
I've copied the upthread portion (message 5726 up) of this subtopic to the "Coronavirus and Pandemics" topic, here.

Members might want to continue any messages of good substance at that location.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that©.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5726 by JonF, posted 04-10-2020 4:47 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4312
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 5739 of 5795 (874850)
04-11-2020 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 5737 by Faith
04-10-2020 11:27 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
Said big mistake to close the schools because children need to be exposed to develop immunity, that the people who should be protected are the elderly and others known to be vulnerable.

That's the kind of right-wingnut nonsense that's going to get people killed. Everybody who has ever had children knows full well what effective disease vectors they are.

So, your plan is to send the kids out to get exposed to COVID-19 and bring it back into the house, infecting their parents and, most of all, their grandparents. You want to have them infect the very people you hypocritically claim to want to protect.

Levin was also talking about how the numbers of infections and deaths are terribly inflated, how other causes of death are often not distinguished from the virus, ...

Actually, the numbers of infections and deaths due to COVID-19 are undercounted. Because we are failing miserably to test for the disease. Because we are not testing patients unless they show definite symptoms. If the patient infected with COVID-19 recovers before he got too far gone for them to ration a test out to him, then he doesn't get counted as having been infected with it. And if he dies before the results of the test come back positive, then his death is not counted as having been due to COVID-19.

... how people who need other kinds of medical attention aren't getting it because everything is dedicated to the virus..

That is true. But the reason why everything is dedicated to the virus is because it is a massive public health emergency which is overwhelming our healthcare systems. Also, it is so contagious that anyone going into the hospital for other problems face a very real danger of becoming infected. Every hospital would need to be very strictly segregated between COVID and non-COVID, which in some facilities would be impossible and in other facilities doable except for the lack of sufficient PPE (personal protection equipment) -- protocol calls for PPE to be discarded and replaced after each patient, but since replacement PPE is virtually non-existent that cannot be done.

Also, Levin is conflating two very different kinds of "other kinds of medical attention". Elective treatment is the kind of medical attention that is being postponed until this Scheißsturm is past us -- if it can wait, then it needs to wait.

However, medical emergencies are still emergencies that cannot wait and will not wait. Part of the plan is to establish medical facilities that will handle non-COVID emergencies. That is why the hospital ships, USNS Mercy and USNS Comfort, have been deployed specifically to handle non-COVID cases. And the US Army Corps of Engineers has finally been deployed to construct temporary medical facilities -- primarily for handling non-COVID emergency cases, but a number of them have been converted to handle COVID cases in response to overflow at COVID facilities.

Lt. Gen. Todd Semonite, Chief of Engineers and commanding general of the Army Corps of Engineers, has been interviewed by Rachel Maddow among others. In his second appearance, she introduced him by saying that they had never seen that kind of viewer response to his first appearance. I have absolutely no doubt that you will refuse to watch him, because we all know how utterly feckless you are. This is for the normals here:

First appearance, 26 Mar 2020 -- Army Corps of Engineers Gives Options To States Facing COVID Crush | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC:

Second appearance, 07 Apr 2020 -- Army Corps Of Engineers Adapts To demands COVID-19 Puts On States | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC:

LtGen Todd Semonite typifies true leadership. He has a mission and his laser-focus goal is to complete that mission. He knows what is at stake, so he knows full well the importance of his mission. He immediately takes charge in order to complete that mission. He doesn't care who you are, what your political leanings are, nor even what you personally think of him, he is a professional and he will work with you in all ways possible in order to complete the mission. Because the mission is of utmost importance.

BTW, the mission is to deal with this pandemic emergency, preserving as many lives as possible, and preserving the United States of America.

Compare that to Cadet Bonespurs. Trump has no mission outside of his own self-serving -- he does not care about LtGen Semonite's mission except for how it might serve him personally (eg, preserve his chances for re-election by keeping him from looking like the total failure that he is). He refuses to take charge, in large part because his mission is not to deal with this national (and global) crisis, but rather his own self-preservation (as well as whatever profiteering he can sneak in) -- but also because even Trump must realize that he actually is totally incompetent and has absolutely no leadership qualities. And since his only mission is self-service, he cares very much who kisses his ass more fervently and who doesn't and he rewards or punishes each one accordingly. Absolute and complete lack of professionalism. Because, in Trump's view, Trump is of utmost importance.

Comparing Trump and LtGen Semonite, the contrast could not possibly be more stark. In this national and international emergency, which one would you rather have in charge?

 
BTW, Faith. Thank you for confirming to us what a complete and utter right-nutwing job Mark Levin is. What a fucking idiot! Now we know with complete confidence to disregard any of his destructive garbage that you might choose to foist upon us.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5737 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 11:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5742 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 6:10 AM dwise1 has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4312
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 5740 of 5795 (874857)
04-11-2020 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 5732 by Faith
04-10-2020 8:30 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
that the phelobotomist at Roseland hospital knows her business

But just what exactly is a phelobotomist's business?

A phelobotomist draws a blood sample. Does a phelobotomist also analyze that blood sample? Or is that part of the lab work?

I just Messaged my daughter-in-law, a physician's assistant, with that question. Could take a day or two or few to get that answer.

But in the meantime my guess is that it's not the phelobotomists, but rather the lab technicians who are going to analyze those blood samples who will determine what antibodies are present.

So then just what the fuck is your point, Faith? Superstition and dumb-fuckery over science?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5732 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 8:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5741 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 5:53 AM dwise1 has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 74 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 5741 of 5795 (874858)
04-11-2020 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 5740 by dwise1
04-11-2020 5:51 AM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
All I know is that the phlebotomist in the story reported on the results of her blood samples.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5740 by dwise1, posted 04-11-2020 5:51 AM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 74 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 5742 of 5795 (874861)
04-11-2020 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 5739 by dwise1
04-11-2020 4:31 AM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
There's no "plan" I merely described what this man said and he was very impressive, I wish I'd heard his name. He thinks the virus is essentially a flu, and the first thing he said was that the vulnerable people need to be protected so there's no idea of children going home to infect grandparents. I think the virus sounds more dangerous than the flu or some people seem to get a more dangerous form of it than others perhaps. And I didn't quote Levin about the other medical needs so you can drop the accusation of him. He didn't "conflate" anything, I merely made a general statement.

I did get the idea from various sources that California may very well have herd immunity because a great number of people got infected swith the virus starting last Fall, a mild version of it that came with a fever but was considered to be more like a cold. If so the sooner they can be tested for antibodies the better.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5739 by dwise1, posted 04-11-2020 4:31 AM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4312
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 5743 of 5795 (874862)
04-11-2020 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 5736 by Faith
04-10-2020 11:22 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
Trump has been following the experts that hve been wrong. They just keep changing their numbers. Other experts are criticizing them but nobody listens to the others.

Typical creationist idiocy!

Of course, trying to explain anything about reality will be completely lost on you, so this is for the normals, the lurkers.

The basic data processing paradigm which is used to design data processing processes is that you have certain kinds of outputs that you expect and you have certain inputs that you have to work with, so your task as a programmer is to come up with the algorithms and processes that will convert the inputs into the outputs.

In a static situation, that is simple. That is the basis of almost every accounting system in existence. As long as you have inputs that do not change over time, you can present constant outputs (eg, the accounting books at the end of an accounting period). Simple and straightforward.

In a dynamic system, it's not so simple. The algorithms and processes (AKA "models") remain, but the inputs are constantly changing (albeit not always in a constant manner) so the outputs are also constantly changing.

What's happening in this pandemic is dynamic. That means that the inputs into the models being used by the experts are changing, which means that the outputs also change. Duh? What part of that are you too feeble-minded to understand?

The typical creationist and fundamentalist mind-set is to accept something as some kind of final and ultimate authority. For example, the Bible is supposed to be some kind of complete and ultimate authority on everything. So then they try to pose Darwin as some kind of complete and ultimate authority on everything relating to evolution. In reality, that is not how it works.

Some kind of Ultimate Divine Authority could command some kind of Ultimate Divine Answer which is equally invariable from it's Ultimate Divine Origin. But that's not what anybody's talking about.

According to fundamentalists, all possible truth was given once and for all, which means that all that could possibly happen is for that truth to degrade and be lost over time.

According to normals, we start with an idea of how the natural world works. From that, we come up with more ideas that we can then test and eliminate or keep, etc.

So if Darwin came up with an idea, normals would examine and develope those ideas beyond what Darwin had originally thought, far beyond.

Fundies instead would require Darwin to have come up with all evolutionary ideas perfectly from the start. That is obviously complete and utter nonsense.

That is why your utterly stupid complaint that scientists' response to changing inputs invalidates their changing conclusions is complete and utter nonsense.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5736 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 11:22 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 74 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 5744 of 5795 (874865)
04-11-2020 7:54 AM


too much quarantine?
The question raised by the expert on the Levin show was whether it's a good thing for so many people to be avoiding getting the virus. certainly people with weakened immune systems and underlying health problems need to be protected, but the problem with everybody avoiding the virus is that we'll all be susceptible to it when we finally venture out of our caves. Herd immunity is really the best protection and we are preventing that by hiding out from it. Some people need to be protected and it's not that there is a really clear population that can be counted on to get only a mild case of it, but that needs to be the aim, that basically healthy people don't need the great degree of protection and if they get it they contribute to herd immunity.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 5745 by PaulK, posted 04-11-2020 8:23 AM Faith has responded
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 Message 5780 by Percy, posted 04-13-2020 7:59 AM Faith has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16550
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 5745 of 5795 (874866)
04-11-2020 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 5744 by Faith
04-11-2020 7:54 AM


Re: too much quarantine?
quote:
The question raised by the expert on the Levin show was whether it's a good thing for so many people to be avoiding getting the virus

The point of that is to slow the spread so we don’t get a lot of bad cases at once. You said that Levin complained that other medical treatments were being neglected. How will more coronavirus cases help that ? Intensive care places are limited. Ventilators are limited. If we run out people will die because of it,

In fact that British government were following the strategy of letting the virus spread. They realised that it wasn’t going to work. Maybe that initial strategy is the reason why Britain had 980 deaths yesterday - neither Italy or Spain have reported such a high figure.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5744 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 7:54 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5746 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 8:27 AM PaulK has responded

  
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