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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
JonF
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Posts: 6073
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 5776 of 5794 (874961)
04-12-2020 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 5766 by dwise1
04-11-2020 5:07 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
He wanted to stop funding testing because people don't count. Only money counts.

But the decision was reversed. Funding continues.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5766 by dwise1, posted 04-11-2020 5:07 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 5777 of 5794 (874962)
04-12-2020 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 5731 by Faith
04-10-2020 8:17 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
Faith writes:

The only way we'll be able to find out is with a reliable test for antibodies. Seems a shame if a huge part of the California population has already had it and could be out working but nobody knows it.

Same with New York, which has a much higher infection rate of .9%, nearly 20 times higher than California's .05%. And of course all states will eventually face the same issue of trying to return those with antibodies back to work as quickly as possible.

This means that each of the 50 states should start up their own individual research program to develop a fast and accurate antibody test. The federal government could take up that task, but of course Trump says it only serves a backup role.

But it's comforting to know that if the states make insufficient progress on this by, say, July or so, that the federal government will probably step in and begin the process of starting the paperwork for requesting the submission of bids. They'll do a comprehensive evaluation process so as to choose the one from whom Trump stands to profit the most, and the test should become available sometime next year when it's no longer relevant, just like Ford and GM will begin churning out ventilators well after the period of peek need has passed.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5731 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 8:17 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


(3)
Message 5778 of 5794 (874963)
04-12-2020 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 5732 by Faith
04-10-2020 8:30 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
Faith writes:

The "experts" on all aspects of this virus situation have been wrong so many times already why should you prefer their opinion on this subject?

It's appropriate that you put "experts" in quotes, because for you the experts are Trump, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Judge Jeannine Pirro, One Network, Jerome Adams (Surgeon General and Trump toady), and so forth. These "experts" are all on video doing a 180 on the coronavirus during the month of March while true scientists like Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx have been very consistent in their message.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5732 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 8:30 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4163
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 5779 of 5794 (874964)
04-12-2020 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 5775 by RAZD
04-12-2020 7:16 AM


Re: Volunteers?
DWise1 writes:

That are churches filled with those volunteers, especially tomorrow (Easter Sunday).


Are there Mass Darwin Awards?

Darwin Awards are for removing yourself from the gene pool in very stupid ways. That means doing so before you have reproduced, thus removing your genes for stupidity from the gene pool.

But this particular death-by-stupidity also incurs enormous collateral damage, also killing off thousands whose only stupid act was to live anywhere near those idiots. We need a judgment call on this one.

 
I just found a likely answer on Wikipedia, Darwin Awards (emphasis added):

quote:
The project became more formalized with the creation of a website in 1993, and followed up by a series of books starting in 2000, authored by Wendy Northcutt. The criterion for the awards states, "In the spirit of Charles Darwin, the Darwin Awards commemorate individuals who protect our gene pool by making the ultimate sacrifice of their own lives. Darwin Award winners eliminate themselves in an extraordinarily idiotic manner, thereby improving our species' chances of long-term survival."

Accidental self-sterilisation also qualifies; however, the site notes: "Of necessity, the award is usually bestowed posthumously." The candidate is disqualified, though, if "innocent bystanders", who might have contributed positively to the gene pool, are killed in the process. The logical problem presented by award winners who may have already reproduced is not addressed in the selection process due to the difficulty of ascertaining if a person has or does not have children; the Darwin Award rules state that the presence of offspring does not disqualify a nominee.

People who have somehow miraculously survived their suicidal idiocy can be given an "Honourable Mention" if their attempted act of self removal is deemed worthy (and humorous).


Since they will kill "innocent bystanders" (very large numbers for that matter), they disqualify themselves.

 
Lower down the page are Wendy Northcutt's five requirements, plus some rules under development:

quote:
Rules

Northcutt has stated five requirements for a Darwin Award:


Inability to reproduce
Nominee must be dead or rendered sterile

This may be subject to dispute. Potential awardees may be out of the gene pool because of age; others have already reproduced before their deaths. To avoid debates about the possibility of in-vitro fertilization, artificial insemination, or cloning, the original Darwin Awards book applied the following "deserted island" test to potential winners: If the person were unable to reproduce when stranded on a deserted island with a fertile member of the opposite sex, he or she would be considered sterile. Winners of the award, in general, either are dead or have become unable to use their sexual organs.

“Excellence”
Astoundingly stupid judgement

The candidate's foolishness must be unique and sensational, likely because the award is intended to be funny. A number of foolish but common activities, such as smoking in bed, are excluded from consideration. In contrast, self-immolation caused by smoking after being administered a flammable ointment in a hospital and specifically told not to smoke is grounds for nomination. One "Honourable Mention" (a man who attempted suicide by swallowing nitroglycerine pills, and then tried to detonate them by running into a wall) is noted to be in this category, despite being intentional and self-inflicted (i.e. attempted suicide), which would normally disqualify the inductee.

Self-selection
Cause of one's own demise

Killing a friend with a hand grenade would not be eligible, but killing oneself while manufacturing a home made chimney-cleaning device from a grenade would be eligible. To earn a Darwin Award, one must have killed oneself, or rendered oneself sterile; merely causing death to a third party is insufficient.

Maturity
Capable of sound judgement

The nominee must be at least past the legal driving age and free of mental defect (Northcutt considers injury or death caused by mental defect to be tragic, rather than amusing, and routinely disqualifies such entries). After much discussion, a small category regarding deaths below this age limit also exists. Entry into this category requires that the peers of the candidate be of the opinion that the actions of the person in question were above and beyond the limits of reason.

However, in 2011, the awards targeted a 16-year-old boy in Leeds who died stealing copper wiring (the standard minimum driving age in Great Britain being 17). In 2012, Northcutt made similar light of a 14-year-old girl in Brazil who was killed while leaning out of a school bus window; however, she was "disqualified" for the award itself because of the likely public objection due to the girl's age, which Northcutt asserts is based on "magical thinking".

Veracity
Event must be verified

The story must be documented by reliable sources: e.g., reputable newspaper articles, confirmed television reports, or responsible eyewitnesses. If a story is found to be untrue, it is disqualified, but particularly amusing ones are placed in the urban legend section of the archives. Despite this requirement, many of the stories are fictional, often appearing as "original submissions" and presenting no further sources than unverified (and unreliable) "eyewitnesses". Most such stories on Northcutt's Darwin Awards site are filed in the Personal Accounts section.

Rules under development

In addition, later revisions to the qualification criteria add several requirements that have not been made into formalised ‘rules’:

  • Innocent bystanders cannot be endangered.

  • The qualifying event must be caused without deliberate intent to end the nominee's own life (or fertility). (To discourage notoriety-seekers from injuring themselves purposely, to win a Darwin, despite the evident benefit of such individuals exiting the gene pool.)

So it looks like they are disqualified for Darwin Awards because of the thousands of fit people they will kill, though they might be able to get dishonorable mention (there is no honor in the mass homicide they will engage in).

Share and enjoy!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5775 by RAZD, posted 04-12-2020 7:16 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 5780 of 5794 (875024)
04-13-2020 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 5744 by Faith
04-11-2020 7:54 AM


Re: too much quarantine?
No, there is not too much quarantine, and why has been explained to you many times. The real question is why you are still getting your information from a right wing propagandist, conspiracy theorist talk show host. His goal is ratings, not accurate information. He's sure got you coming back time after time.

Herd immunity is really the best protection and we are preventing that by hiding out from it.

This has been explained before, but it bears repeating. The coronavirus mortality rate is thought to be in the neighborhood of 2%. Let's lowball it and call it 1%. If we let the coronavirus roll through the country and infect everyone that would be 3.25 million deaths, and there would be millions more collateral deaths from other causes due to the unavailability of health resources sucked up by coronavirus cases.

...basically healthy people don't need the great degree of protection and if they get it they contribute to herd immunity.

Please stop propagating this myth. Young people are also dying from coronavirus, just at a lower rate than older people (from The Pandemic's First Wave):

Current health has nothing to do with it. The most important factor is the viral load acquired (how much virus infects a person at one time, e.g., a big droplet of thousands of virus passed directly through the air to someone else's passageways rather than a few hundred virus on a packaging container that someone happens to touch) and whether it can outrace the immune system's efforts to mount a robust defense.

The Washington Post website is blocking me from directly presenting the images of some of those who died, a number of them relatively young. You can see them in the article.

Here's an example of what happens when you relax social distancing and PPE too soon. This is Italy. Their daily new cases was trending downward, then they relaxed, and now they're trending upward again:

Until there's a vaccine, everyone with no previous exposure is vulnerable, which is, given the low penetration rate into the population of 0.2%, almost everybody. Drop the mitigation efforts and the rate of infection will increase rapidly.

How do we reopen the country? Massive testing, something Trump has declared we don't need, combined with social distancing, masks and gloves where widespread testing isn't yet implemented. Without this our choices are depression or a conflagration of death. Travel from places with high infection rates to places of low infection rates should be prohibited except for those tested.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5744 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 7:54 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5781 by Faith, posted 04-13-2020 3:11 PM Percy has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5781 of 5794 (875035)
04-13-2020 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 5780 by Percy
04-13-2020 7:59 AM


Re: too much quarantine?
I listen to MANY sources, not just one "host." And I hear many different opinions. Lately there are many emphasizing the down side of avoiding the virus altogether, which is that as soon as you relax the quarantine you do start getting more cases and more deaths.

Because you don't have herd immunity. This is going to happen WHENEVER you relax the quarantine. The need is to protect the most vulnerable. Nobody has suggested just reopening everything and exposing everybody, it's always about how to protect the most vulnerable.

There is now strong reason to believe that California has herd immunity. My daughter and her family probably had the virus months ago and are now immune. Three of them may have had it twice. My son in law had a particularly bad case of it but only had it once. There are likely millions of people in that situation in California. The sooner they can test them the better so the state can reopen.

It was reported a few months ago, December or so? that California was having an especially bad flu season. Some are now suspecting it was a combination of the flu and the COVID virus but since there was no testing there was no way to identify it at the time. So now tests for antibodies are needed.

There are certainly some places that for whatever reason are more susceptible to this virus than others and they need a different kind of response than places that are less affected.
Nobody wants ANY deaths, but every year we accept thousands of flu deaths as normal and this virus may not even be as lethal as the flu. We don't close up the country for flu. We also don't close it up for all the other reasons thousands of people die in this country every year. It's not at all clear that all the other causes of death are even being recognized in this COVID pandemic which has come to dominate everything. One result of all this emphasis on this virus is that we may take stronger measures to protect people from the flu in the future. That would be one good outcome.

And since the malaria drug Hydroxychlorophine does have dramatic results in curing some people of this virus I hope it's being used in serious cases but I haven't seen information about this. Not that I would, I'm really not a hound for information even on this subject. I just hear or see whatever I happen to hear or see.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5780 by Percy, posted 04-13-2020 7:59 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 5783 by JonF, posted 04-13-2020 4:48 PM Faith has responded
 Message 5790 by Percy, posted 04-15-2020 9:17 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6073
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 5782 of 5794 (875043)
04-13-2020 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 5781 by Faith
04-13-2020 3:11 PM


Re: too much quarantine?
I listen to MANY sources, not just one "host. And I hear many different opinions. Lately there are many emphasizing the down side of avoiding the virus altogether, which is that as soon as you relax the quarantine you do start getting more cases and more deaths.

I.e. you are listening only to strongly right wing sources.

Because you don't have herd immunity. This is going to happen WHENEVER you relax the quarantine.

There is now strong reason to believe that California has herd immunity.

I.e. social distancing doesn't work, but social distancing works.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5781 by Faith, posted 04-13-2020 3:11 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6073
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 5783 of 5794 (875046)
04-13-2020 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 5781 by Faith
04-13-2020 3:11 PM


Re: too much quarantine?
Oh, and Covid-19 is much much more virulent and deadly than the flu. Social Distancing has softened the blow; without it the death toll would be much higher.

When and how to "return to normal" is a difficult question. But we do know now is not the time, and a month from now is 99.99999% certain it won't be the time.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5781 by Faith, posted 04-13-2020 3:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5784 of 5794 (875047)
04-13-2020 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 5783 by JonF
04-13-2020 4:48 PM


Re: too much quarantine?
We HAVE to return to normal but it's going to have to be done carefully and in stages and by location and other criteria.

And herd immunity cannot be created by quarantine, it is only created by exposure to the virus, and that's what seems to have been the case in California, many people having been sick with it without knowing it, perhaps millions. Antibody tests are crucial to find out.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 5785 by frako, posted 04-13-2020 5:08 PM Faith has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2923
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 5785 of 5794 (875054)
04-13-2020 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 5784 by Faith
04-13-2020 4:55 PM


Re: too much quarantine?
We HAVE to return to normal but it's going to have to be done carefully and in stages and by location and other criteria.

We are down to 7 new cases a day. And we haven't loosened restrictions yet. But once we are down to 0 we can just quarantine new arrivals to the country, and be free to frolic around with no restrictions.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5784 by Faith, posted 04-13-2020 4:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5786 by Faith, posted 04-13-2020 5:14 PM frako has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5786 of 5794 (875055)
04-13-2020 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 5785 by frako
04-13-2020 5:08 PM


Re: too much quarantine?
Well I hope so but you might find out that with so many people in quarantine and not exposed to the virus that it comes back with a vengeance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5785 by frako, posted 04-13-2020 5:08 PM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5787 by frako, posted 04-13-2020 5:38 PM Faith has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2923
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 5787 of 5794 (875063)
04-13-2020 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 5786 by Faith
04-13-2020 5:14 PM


Re: too much quarantine?
From whom? Anyone coming to the country is quarantined and tested. And hopefully we will soon purge the virus from our population.

and its not like we wont be testing for any flareup, and restart the same restrictions that worked so well for us this time.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5786 by Faith, posted 04-13-2020 5:14 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 5789 by Phat, posted 04-14-2020 9:53 AM frako has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5788 of 5794 (875064)
04-13-2020 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 5787 by frako
04-13-2020 5:38 PM


Re: too much quarantine?
OK, if you can really avoid it to that extent maybe you'll be lucky. But I'm sure you know that some people can carry it without being symptomatic. Yes I suppose you could reinstate your quranttine then but won't you just continue to have this problem of silent carriers?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5787 by frako, posted 04-13-2020 5:38 PM frako has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 5789 of 5794 (875110)
04-14-2020 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 5787 by frako
04-13-2020 5:38 PM


Re: too much quarantine?
frako writes:

Anyone coming to the country is quarantined and tested. And hopefully we will soon purge the virus from our population.

More likely the virus will simply become common and vaccinated. Science alone wont protect us from pestilence.

But I will leave that conversation for a later faith based discussion.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 5790 of 5794 (875136)
04-15-2020 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 5781 by Faith
04-13-2020 3:11 PM


Re: too much quarantine?
A response has been posted in Message 561 in the appropriate thread, Coronavirus and Pandemics.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5781 by Faith, posted 04-13-2020 3:11 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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