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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1838 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Right Side of the News | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 561 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
He wanted to stop funding testing because people don't count. Only money counts.
But the decision was reversed. Funding continues. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 23336 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 6.2 |
Faith writes: The only way we'll be able to find out is with a reliable test for antibodies. Seems a shame if a huge part of the California population has already had it and could be out working but nobody knows it. Same with New York, which has a much higher infection rate of .9%, nearly 20 times higher than California's .05%. And of course all states will eventually face the same issue of trying to return those with antibodies back to work as quickly as possible. This means that each of the 50 states should start up their own individual research program to develop a fast and accurate antibody test. The federal government could take up that task, but of course Trump says it only serves a backup role. But it's comforting to know that if the states make insufficient progress on this by, say, July or so, that the federal government will probably step in and begin the process of starting the paperwork for requesting the submission of bids. They'll do a comprehensive evaluation process so as to choose the one from whom Trump stands to profit the most, and the test should become available sometime next year when it's no longer relevant, just like Ford and GM will begin churning out ventilators well after the period of peek need has passed. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 23336 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 6.2
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Faith writes: The "experts" on all aspects of this virus situation have been wrong so many times already why should you prefer their opinion on this subject? It's appropriate that you put "experts" in quotes, because for you the experts are Trump, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Judge Jeannine Pirro, One Network, Jerome Adams (Surgeon General and Trump toady), and so forth. These "experts" are all on video doing a 180 on the coronavirus during the month of March while true scientists like Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx have been very consistent in their message. --Percy
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6278 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7
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DWise1 writes:
Are there Mass Darwin Awards? That are churches filled with those volunteers, especially tomorrow (Easter Sunday). Darwin Awards are for removing yourself from the gene pool in very stupid ways. That means doing so before you have reproduced, thus removing your genes for stupidity from the gene pool. But this particular death-by-stupidity also incurs enormous collateral damage, also killing off thousands whose only stupid act was to live anywhere near those idiots. We need a judgment call on this one. I just found a likely answer on Wikipedia, Darwin Awards (emphasis added): quote: Since they will kill "innocent bystanders" (very large numbers for that matter), they disqualify themselves. Lower down the page are Wendy Northcutt's five requirements, plus some rules under development: quote: So it looks like they are disqualified for Darwin Awards because of the thousands of fit people they will kill, though they might be able to get dishonorable mention (there is no honor in the mass homicide they will engage in). Share and enjoy!
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Percy Member Posts: 23336 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 6.2 |
No, there is not too much quarantine, and why has been explained to you many times. The real question is why you are still getting your information from a right wing propagandist, conspiracy theorist talk show host. His goal is ratings, not accurate information. He's sure got you coming back time after time.
Herd immunity is really the best protection and we are preventing that by hiding out from it. This has been explained before, but it bears repeating. The coronavirus mortality rate is thought to be in the neighborhood of 2%. Let's lowball it and call it 1%. If we let the coronavirus roll through the country and infect everyone that would be 3.25 million deaths, and there would be millions more collateral deaths from other causes due to the unavailability of health resources sucked up by coronavirus cases.
...basically healthy people don't need the great degree of protection and if they get it they contribute to herd immunity. Please stop propagating this myth. Young people are also dying from coronavirus, just at a lower rate than older people (from The Pandemic's First Wave):
Current health has nothing to do with it. The most important factor is the viral load acquired (how much virus infects a person at one time, e.g., a big droplet of thousands of virus passed directly through the air to someone else's passageways rather than a few hundred virus on a packaging container that someone happens to touch) and whether it can outrace the immune system's efforts to mount a robust defense. The Washington Post website is blocking me from directly presenting the images of some of those who died, a number of them relatively young. You can see them in the article. Here's an example of what happens when you relax social distancing and PPE too soon. This is Italy. Their daily new cases was trending downward, then they relaxed, and now they're trending upward again:
Until there's a vaccine, everyone with no previous exposure is vulnerable, which is, given the low penetration rate into the population of 0.2%, almost everybody. Drop the mitigation efforts and the rate of infection will increase rapidly. How do we reopen the country? Massive testing, something Trump has declared we don't need, combined with social distancing, masks and gloves where widespread testing isn't yet implemented. Without this our choices are depression or a conflagration of death. Travel from places with high infection rates to places of low infection rates should be prohibited except for those tested. --Percy
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1838 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I listen to MANY sources, not just one "host." And I hear many different opinions. Lately there are many emphasizing the down side of avoiding the virus altogether, which is that as soon as you relax the quarantine you do start getting more cases and more deaths.
Because you don't have herd immunity. This is going to happen WHENEVER you relax the quarantine. The need is to protect the most vulnerable. Nobody has suggested just reopening everything and exposing everybody, it's always about how to protect the most vulnerable. There is now strong reason to believe that California has herd immunity. My daughter and her family probably had the virus months ago and are now immune. Three of them may have had it twice. My son in law had a particularly bad case of it but only had it once. There are likely millions of people in that situation in California. The sooner they can test them the better so the state can reopen. It was reported a few months ago, December or so? that California was having an especially bad flu season. Some are now suspecting it was a combination of the flu and the COVID virus but since there was no testing there was no way to identify it at the time. So now tests for antibodies are needed. There are certainly some places that for whatever reason are more susceptible to this virus than others and they need a different kind of response than places that are less affected.Nobody wants ANY deaths, but every year we accept thousands of flu deaths as normal and this virus may not even be as lethal as the flu. We don't close up the country for flu. We also don't close it up for all the other reasons thousands of people die in this country every year. It's not at all clear that all the other causes of death are even being recognized in this COVID pandemic which has come to dominate everything. One result of all this emphasis on this virus is that we may take stronger measures to protect people from the flu in the future. That would be one good outcome. And since the malaria drug Hydroxychlorophine does have dramatic results in curing some people of this virus I hope it's being used in serious cases but I haven't seen information about this. Not that I would, I'm really not a hound for information even on this subject. I just hear or see whatever I happen to hear or see. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 561 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
I listen to MANY sources, not just one "host. And I hear many different opinions. Lately there are many emphasizing the down side of avoiding the virus altogether, which is that as soon as you relax the quarantine you do start getting more cases and more deaths.
I.e. you are listening only to strongly right wing sources.
Because you don't have herd immunity. This is going to happen WHENEVER you relax the quarantine. There is now strong reason to believe that California has herd immunity. I.e. social distancing doesn't work, but social distancing works.
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JonF Member (Idle past 561 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Oh, and Covid-19 is much much more virulent and deadly than the flu. Social Distancing has softened the blow; without it the death toll would be much higher.
When and how to "return to normal" is a difficult question. But we do know now is not the time, and a month from now is 99.99999% certain it won't be the time. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1838 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
We HAVE to return to normal but it's going to have to be done carefully and in stages and by location and other criteria.
And herd immunity cannot be created by quarantine, it is only created by exposure to the virus, and that's what seems to have been the case in California, many people having been sick with it without knowing it, perhaps millions. Antibody tests are crucial to find out.
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
We HAVE to return to normal but it's going to have to be done carefully and in stages and by location and other criteria. We are down to 7 new cases a day. And we haven't loosened restrictions yet. But once we are down to 0 we can just quarantine new arrivals to the country, and be free to frolic around with no restrictions. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1838 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well I hope so but you might find out that with so many people in quarantine and not exposed to the virus that it comes back with a vengeance.
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
From whom? Anyone coming to the country is quarantined and tested. And hopefully we will soon purge the virus from our population.
and its not like we wont be testing for any flareup, and restart the same restrictions that worked so well for us this time. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1838 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
OK, if you can really avoid it to that extent maybe you'll be lucky. But I'm sure you know that some people can carry it without being symptomatic. Yes I suppose you could reinstate your quranttine then but won't you just continue to have this problem of silent carriers?
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Phat Member Posts: 18763 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
frako writes: More likely the virus will simply become common and vaccinated. Science alone wont protect us from pestilence. Anyone coming to the country is quarantined and tested. And hopefully we will soon purge the virus from our population. But I will leave that conversation for a later faith based discussion. ![]() The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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Percy Member Posts: 23336 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 6.2 |
A response has been posted in Message 561 in the appropriate thread, Coronavirus and Pandemics.
--Percy
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