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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 601 of 5796 (847587)
01-23-2019 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 598 by Faith
01-23-2019 8:09 PM


It's quite easy to see form videos like this ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56NSC8WQdA4&fbclid=IwAR29...
and this ...
Video of Teens in MAGA Hats Surrounding a Native American Vietnam Veteran Sparks Outrage
... that the kids were in fact being insufferable little shits. Do they deserve all the attention? No. Kids are always being insufferable little shits.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 598 by Faith, posted 01-23-2019 8:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 604 by Faith, posted 01-24-2019 3:28 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 602 of 5796 (847589)
01-23-2019 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 600 by Phat
01-23-2019 10:05 PM


Re: Dangerous media smears of innocent boys
Your opinion has no effect on reality and evidently reality has no effect on your opinion.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 600 by Phat, posted 01-23-2019 10:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 606 by Phat, posted 01-24-2019 4:16 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 603 of 5796 (847595)
01-24-2019 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 594 by Theodoric
01-23-2019 5:18 PM


Re: Dangerous media smears of innocent boys
The Native American guy told the media that the boys had been yelling at the Black Israelites and that it was terrible how they talked to those old guys. They hadn't said one thing to the black guys. He also said they were chanting "Build the Wall." They weren't. He might have had that wrong because one of the black guys WAS yelling that, which is shown on the third video I posted in Message 545. It wasn't the boys though. He also said he felt threatened by the kids, that they surrounded him. Well, he himself had walked up to them and pushed through them so that some of them were sort of surrounding him, but it was because of his own movement, nothing they were doing. He tried to characterize the boys as aggressive pro-Trumpers. They were nothing of the sort.
I may yet find a video of what he initially said to the media but at least you can hear the reporter quote him from about 19:30 on that third video in Message 545.
\
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 594 by Theodoric, posted 01-23-2019 5:18 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 604 of 5796 (847596)
01-24-2019 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 601 by Dr Adequate
01-23-2019 10:58 PM


I don't know what they were doing there and I'm sure you don't either. Some of them thought the Indian guy had come over to give them support against the black Israelites who were calling them names so maybe all they thought they were doing was joining in with his drumming.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 601 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-23-2019 10:58 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 605 of 5796 (847597)
01-24-2019 3:38 AM


If nothing else the message here ought to be how easy it is to misconstrue people's behavior. Possibly the Indian wasn't lying but if not he got the totally wrong idea about what the kids were doing. The media didn't bother to check any of their own first impressions and contributed to a rush to judgment against the boys who were completely innocent of any of the provocations they were accused of. Even their own school administration believed the media accounts against them. And now they are the targets of all kinds of threats.
I was glad to hear on the news about an hour ago that one woman who had joined in the accusations of the boys now regrets what she'd said. I don't know if she's a reporter or what.

Replies to this message:
 Message 607 by Phat, posted 01-24-2019 4:30 AM Faith has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 606 of 5796 (847598)
01-24-2019 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 602 by Theodoric
01-23-2019 11:55 PM


Re: Dangerous media smears of innocent boys
Maybe i dont understand whats going on then. Can you give me your perspective? One of my close friends happens to be a Catholic cub scout leader and has sons close to the age of those students and he sides against the activists. It apparantly looks that way to me as well. The Israeli group clearly started in with the whole white privilege thing. Granted the teen boys behaved as teens can do but were not the instigators. Please tell me your perspective. You know im not pro Trump but I also am not anti white as it is counter productive. This whole privilege thing causes more harm than good. Please rxplain tp me why my opinion is uninformed or wrong.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 602 by Theodoric, posted 01-23-2019 11:55 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 614 by ringo, posted 01-24-2019 11:03 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 615 by Theodoric, posted 01-24-2019 11:22 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 607 of 5796 (847599)
01-24-2019 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 605 by Faith
01-24-2019 3:38 AM


Throwing gasoline on a fire
Usually i dont agree with you when you rant about a vile leftist media but after reading many news and opinion pieces on this incident i can see the tensiom and in my opinion unjustified backlash against any attempt at a fair and balanced report of what actually went on. Why is it that fringe minority groups are always favored as the good guys even when the videos clearly saw them instigate confrontation. Granted Trump is a nationalist and in my opinion not too bright but I side with you in this one. Two wrongs dont make a right. Maybe my people have been knowing jerks and oppressors in past history but trying to make an issue that we are privileged or always wrong will only cause more conflicts. We need to focus on equal treatment of all classes of people rather than vilify any one group....and i mean ANY.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 605 by Faith, posted 01-24-2019 3:38 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 608 by Faith, posted 01-24-2019 4:56 AM Phat has replied
 Message 610 by Faith, posted 01-24-2019 5:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 608 of 5796 (847600)
01-24-2019 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 607 by Phat
01-24-2019 4:30 AM


Dangerous jumping to conclusions
Good luck focusing on equal treatment of all classes of people, because the Marxists have been working hard to divide us into mutually antagonistic races and classes for decades now. And the Left has been following the Marxist line and the media are Leftist.
However, I now think everybody is probably misreading everybody else in this story. Except the black Israelites who were clearly in the wrong from any point of view. But when the Indian guy's first description of events was shown to be so extravagantly false as more of the video came out, that made him appear to be the lying instigator. But I think it's possible there was so much confusion he misunderstood what was going on and may not have been lying, just wrong about what the boys were doing.
Here's another video I just found of two news anchors actually sounding quite sane and reasonable:
They claim some of the boys were misbehaving but it isn't clear to me where they were getting that. They said some of them WERE taunting the Native American guy with the drum, they mention the "tomahawk chop" and assume that was meant as a taunt. I don't know but I doubt it. What I suggest above still seems more likely to me: that the kids at first thought the guy was supporting them against the black Israelites and their school chants then mingled with his drumming and they thought it was all just a fun thing they were doing together. I could be wrong but they just look like exuberant kids to me, not kids mocking this man. And that idea seems highly unlikely for a lot of reasons. But I think more discussion is needed.
I also now think the Native American may not have meant to face down the kid, but wanted him to move aside to let him pass. The kid on the other hand thought he was being singled out and confronted and felt it necessary to stand his ground and not seem intimidated or threatening.
If nothing else, however, it is clear that the media rushed to judgment against the boys and that twitter and other gossip sources have put them in harm's way and that needs to be corrected no matter what else.
I'm glad to see these two reporters seeming to care about objectivity in reporting for a change. That in itself is a hopeful sign.
Another part of the discussion is the MAGA hat, which the two anchors said represents racist and other provocations though they defend people's right to wear it. Well, to wearers of it all it means is "I support Trump's policies and I'm not a racist," and being intimidated into not wearing it just continues the false political divide. These two say wearers of it need to be aware of that. I think they should be telling those who get provoked by it to cool their jets, they are the ones in the wrong.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 607 by Phat, posted 01-24-2019 4:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 609 by Phat, posted 01-24-2019 5:21 AM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 609 of 5796 (847601)
01-24-2019 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 608 by Faith
01-24-2019 4:56 AM


Re: Dangerous jumping to conclusions
I've been thinking about the conscious and unconscious symbolism behind this event. I will elaborate later when i get home and on my computer. I cant type quickly on my android.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 608 by Faith, posted 01-24-2019 4:56 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 610 of 5796 (847602)
01-24-2019 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 607 by Phat
01-24-2019 4:30 AM


Re: Throwing gasoline on a fire
By the time you get home and write your ponderings I may be back in bed. In any case I wanted to comment on this:
Why is it that fringe minority groups are always favored as the good guys even when the videos clearly saw them instigate confrontation.
This is exactly what the Right understands that apparently most others don't. This is the product of decades of propaganda in the media and in the universities against the dominant western culture and even specifically against the white race. They are racists themselves of course but their disinformation makes it OK to be racist against whites because whites are the only racists they recognize. So at least you recognize the bias in the reporting. Now recognize that it's the product of Marxist propaganda as I keep trying to point out. Yes it is speficially Marxist. It comes out of the Cultural Marxism that was the dominant academic worldview of the sixties. The whole feminist attack on "patriarchy" is from the Marxist Feminist stuff. The attack on white people is part of the Marxist racist attempt to bring down western civilization. Political Correctness is the weapon used to force their anti-American analysis on the rest of us, labeling those who disagree racist, sexist, xenophobic etc, all slanderous lies used for intimidation. Multiculturalism is another tenet aimed directly against the American melting pot. I know all this partly because in the sixties I was where all this hate was brewing around me. I kept thinking, "they hate my working class white father who never hurt anyone in his life?"
Martin Luther King had the right idea, to bring all the races together in friendship so that we judge each other as individuals by our character and not our race, but that got buried in the Marxist rhetoric.
All this stuff about "white privilege" comes from Cultural Marxism. All this stuff about how it's the rich people who are causing poverty comes from Cultural Marxism. it's not true, it's the fact that liberty allows people with vision to make money that grows the economy and historically has provided for all sorts of material benefits we take for granted in America because of our capitalist system. All Marxism does is promote envy, and envy is enough to kill all the good American liberty can do, and kill liberty itself.
Granted Trump is a nationalist and in my opinion not too bright
Understanding "nationalist" as patriotic love of America makes him the good guy to Trump supporters, and I think we are actually growing in our love and admiration of the guy as he stands his ground against the Leftist attempts to bring him down. Think what you want, it's a free country (sort of still, maybe not for much longer though), but the more I hear Trump these days the more I like what he has to say and how he says it.
But I side with you in this one. Two wrongs dont make a right. Maybe my people have been knowing jerks and oppressors in past history but trying to make an issue that we are privileged or always wrong will only cause more conflicts.
There is nothing any more racist about whites than any other group on earth, that's all Marxist propaganda to divide the country, kill the melting pot and end all hope of unity as a nation of people from different backgrounds, magnify grievances, identify a scapegoat that then becomes the subject of violent threats and so on. It is they who are the racists these days. Marxism is sheer evil and it is the predominant cause of all the unrest happening today. And the aim is to kill American sovereignty and subordinate us to a global government.
We need to focus on equal treatment of all classes of people rather than vilify any one group....and i mean ANY.
That's exactly right, but you don't have much of a clue about the powerful philosophical and political forces working against just that attitude.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 607 by Phat, posted 01-24-2019 4:30 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 611 of 5796 (847611)
01-24-2019 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 598 by Faith
01-23-2019 8:09 PM


Faith writes:
It looked like a smirk to me too.
Go with your instincts. There may be a flicker of humanity left in you.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 598 by Faith, posted 01-23-2019 8:09 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 612 of 5796 (847612)
01-24-2019 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 599 by Phat
01-23-2019 9:19 PM


Re: Make The Media Great Again
Phat writes:
...but the Indian was a professional activist as were the black Israeli group.
That's irrelevant.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 599 by Phat, posted 01-23-2019 9:19 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 613 of 5796 (847613)
01-24-2019 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 600 by Phat
01-23-2019 10:05 PM


Re: Dangerous media smears of innocent boys
Phat writes:
The Catholic high Schoolers were a bit rowdy, but did nothing any 16 uear olds wouldn't do....
Ah, yes, the "boys will be boys" defense. They all do it, so it's okay.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 600 by Phat, posted 01-23-2019 10:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 614 of 5796 (847614)
01-24-2019 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 606 by Phat
01-24-2019 4:16 AM


Re: Dangerous media smears of innocent boys
Phat writes:
One of my close friends happens to be a Catholic cub scout leader and has sons close to the age of those students and he sides against the activists.
Irrelevant.
Phat writes:
The Israeli group clearly started in with the whole white privilege thing.
Irrelevant.
Phat writes:
Granted the teen boys behaved as teens can do but were not the instigators.
What difference does it make who the instigators were? Why aren't the kids responsible for their own actions?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by Phat, posted 01-24-2019 4:16 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 615 of 5796 (847617)
01-24-2019 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 606 by Phat
01-24-2019 4:16 AM


Re: Dangerous media smears of innocent boys
You know im not pro Trump but I also am not anti white
That explains it all right there. The idea that non-white people expressing their rights, criticizing the oppression they feel and receive, pointing out white privilege are anti-white.
A lot of wingers whine and complain whenever their racist actions are called out as racist, but people like them and you seemingly love to accuse people of being anti-white.
I know of no anti-white activists. I am familiar with a few Native activists and have worked a little in the Latinx/Hispanic activist movement. Pushing for better treatment of black or brown or pick your minority is anti-white? But advocating that whites are inherently better is not racist?
Here is the kicker, genetically speaking there is no such thing as race. It makes as much sense to treat people differently based on nose shape as it does skin color. If you think skin color defines a person you are a racist. If you think the native elder is anti-white you are a racist.
The thing about racists is that very few of the have them balls to stand up for their actual beliefs. The hem and haw and try to justify why they are not racists. This is because they know they only have one reason for being a racist. Hate of people that are different and they don't want to admit it. Give me a good old time racist that admits they hate people different than they are. At least you know where they stand and you don't have to deal with them blowing smoke up your ass.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by Phat, posted 01-24-2019 4:16 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 616 by Phat, posted 01-24-2019 12:08 PM Theodoric has replied

  
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