I do not deny anything said in the last two posts. Never-the-less, and again, Trump will not be charged and no amount of rationalisation and regret will change that.
I have no feeling that the investigation was materially flawed or corrupt so it's time to move on.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
I do not deny anything said in the last two posts.
If you don't deny that we haven't yet read Mueller's report, only Barr's letter (Barr was appointed by Trump because he has an expansive view of presidential power not too dissimilar from that of a king), and if you don't deny that Congress is carrying out its own investigations (it can't make charges itself but can hand off information to the Justice Department), and if you don't deny that the Southern District of New York is investigating such things as conspiracy against the United States, false statements, mail fraud, wire fraud, money laundering, disclosure violations, and foreign contributions to the campaign, then this prediction seems a bit out on a limb:
Nevertheless, and again, Trump will not be charged...
Moving on:
I have no feeling that the investigation was materially flawed or corrupt so it's time to move on.
Have you (or anyone outside the Justice Department) read anything from the Mueller report beyond the couple sentences quoted in Attorney General Barr's letter? Given the questions raised by Barr's letter, most particularly the exceptionally quick conclusion that there was no obstruction of justice (but the letter also raises many other questions), reaching such conclusions seems premature. Barr seems to realize this and says a redacted version of the report will be made available around mid-April. Assuming the report isn't redacted out of existence, the report's availability should prove very helpful in reaching informed conclusions.
Your posts are brief and seem to reach conclusions at odds with what we know and that go beyond what we know, plus you make errors of fact, for instance, apparently believing Trump was the target of the Mueller investigation when it was actually the Trump campaign and Russian election interference.
If there's a consistent rationale behind your position it might take more than the three or four sentence responses you've offered so far to express it. While I can agree that issues of true governance should take precedent, to simply close the book on all Trump related misdeeds (both campaign and business) seems very premature. It would be as uninformed to say, "Yeah, Brexit, time to move on." It not only isn't possible, it doesn't even make sense.
The antifreespeech leftist TV stations are refusing to run ads for this movie, of course, since they love killing babies and don't llike saving them. Anyway, this movie just came out and it's the true story of a woman who worked for Planned Parenthood until she happened to see the actual result of an abortion and became an activist on the other side. It looks like it's pretty well done.
Here's background on the making of the film including interviews with the makers of the film:
The alt-right has just been handed a golden gift by their champion yet again. Emboldened actions, many of them violent, are going to occur.
The ALT right? I follow the Right, the real true Right. And Trump handed nobody anything. He tolerated this abuse for over two years and it's the report itself which has now exonerated him. Yes, exonerated him despite all the attempts to make it mean something other than it obviously means.
Trump's team is happy, they just had a happy rally over all this; they have no reason to protest anything, let alone with violence. Well, I hope they are going to expose the investigation for the political witchhunt it was, but at the moment they are merely happy that the truth is out.
The Left may of course have reason to be unhappy, since they've been crying "collusion" right up to the last minute, apparently very sure of what Mueller would say, and since they were wrong now they have every reason to be upset and angry. Maybe even violent?
It's rather hard to imagine that there is evidence in the full version of the report sufficient to provide for a prosecution when the author of it tells us that there is not. Sounds like desperation to me.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
It's rather hard to imagine that there is evidence in the full version of the report sufficient to provide for a prosecution when the author of it tells us that there is not. Sounds like desperation to me.
I do understand your point - you think we're beating a dead horse. But you're focused solely on Barr's 4-page summary of Mueller's 380-page report when there are a great many questions and legal issues remaining. This isn't analogous to time running out on a soccer game where the outcome has been decided and it's, in your words, time to move on. No one's seen the Mueller report, Barr's summary as well as himself are suspect, and the Mueller report isn't the only game in town since there are Congressional investigations and investigations by the Southern District of New York. In more detail:
The Mueller report is only one source of legal trouble for the Trump campaign and the Trump administration. I have described a number of others, as well as associated issues, none of which have received any comment.
Trump was not the target of the investigation. It was the Trump campaign. People associated with the Trump campaign have already been found guilty, pled guilty, or are under indictment awaiting trial. This is from the Assistant Attorney General Rod Rosenstein's letter giving Robert Mueller the assignment to investigate:
quote:any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump
I repeat this only because there hasn't yet been any indication that this point has gotten across.
No one outside the justice department has read Mueller's report. You're relying upon Attorney General William Barr's 4-page summary, who quotes only a couple sentences from Mueller's report.
We know Barr has an inflated view of the powers of the presidency, which is why Trump appointed him.
Because the report isn't yet public, it is incorrect to state that Mueller said there is not sufficient evidence. On this point Barr does provide a partial quote from the report: “[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” Barr then goes on to say in a footnote that Mueller defined “coordination” as an “agreement”tacit or express”between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government on election interference.”
But this is contradictory. How can accepting a meeting with Russians desiring to provide dirt on Hillary Clinton not be a tacit agreement to coordinate? Was it possibly because Mueller's mandate limited him to investigating election interference, which is not what the meeting in Trump Tower was about? We need to see the Mueller report to understand this so that we know, among many other things, whether Mueller exonerated the Trump campaign concerning the Trump Tower meeting, or didn't consider it within his purview.
Barr's summary only said there was insufficient evidence for collusion, not for obstruction of justice. Concerning obstruction of justice Barr said that Mueller made no determination one way or the other, then revealed that he'd made the determination himself after just, at most, a couple days of review and without explanation or elaboration.
Committees in the House of Representatives are in the very early stages of conducting investigations into possible Trump related malfeasance, both during the campaign and after he took office. The result could be charges referred to the Justice Department or even impeachment.
The Southern District of New York is investigating such things as conspiracy against the United States, false statements, mail fraud, wire fraud, money laundering, disclosure violations, and foreign contributions to the campaign.
I am at this point very interested in where all these investigations lead. I am also very puzzled by Barr's letter and look forward to reading the Mueller report, assuming it doesn't get redacted into oblivion.
I had heard that Barr had released a second letter to Congress but couldn't run down a copy until just now: Barr's Second Letter to Congress
Apparently recognizing that his first letter to Congress summarizing the Mueller report could be perceived as political, and that he might be vulnerable to charges of painting a false picture of it, and responding to pressure to release the report, Barr send this second letter to Congress this past Friday. Briefly summarizing (those who want detail can read the letter):
The first paragraph refers to two letters, one from Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), chair of the House Judiciary Committee, and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm short of time and cannot run down copies of these letters.
Attorney General William Barr is preparing the report with redactions, with a planned release around mid-April.
President Trump has stated publicly that he will not assert privilege over any part of the report.
Barr states that some quarters had misconstrued his previous letter as a summary of the Mueller report, which it was not. It was only a summary of the Mueller report's "principal conclusions."
All the items in my list taken together show why it is impossible to move on. Developments in all these ongoing investigations of Trump, the Trump campaign, the Trump businesses and the Trump administration are going to be made public from time to time - moving on isn't possible.
They are going to investigate Trump's businesses based on what? It's the same old leftist sleaze. There was no actual reason for the Mueller investigation either, just leftist suspiciousness. Why isn't there an actual statement of what crime they think Trump committed with his businesses? Why is it all just the usual innuendo? We're going to investigate him because, well, we're going to investigate him, just in case, you know, we might find something to stick on him. And besides, just SAYING we're going to investigate him puts doubts about him in the public mind and that's enough whether we find anything or not.
Mueller found lots of stuff against various members of Trump's campaign that had absolutely nothing to do with Russian collusion and nothing to do with Trump, and there is reason to think some of it was obtinained unlawfully too, but I'll leave that for what I hope will be more probing into this attempt to destroy Trump, and there have been lots of side issues you and others try to make into criminal charges without any warrant whatever, just that it sounds like something criminal to your ear basically.
And after days of leftists carrying on about how the soon-to-be-released Mueller report was going to show collusion collusion collusion (and why "collusion" instead of "conspiracy? Collusion isn't a crime, but conspiracy is.) Collusion, and even "treason" were said over and over by various leftist pundits, and the phrase" it's closing in on him" was used many times in that period, and other phrases I can't remember. All stirring up the idea that he was really in for it. Oh and even the phrase "jail time" was supposedly in his future. All said in great tones of certainty by various leftist talking heads. And what did we get? The report showed no coluion on the part of Trump or any member of his campaign. Not even a vague nod to any of those hysterical prophecies on the Left.
So you now think these other legal threats will bear more fruit? Based on what? Just the fact that somebody wants to find something against him? Just more of the same. Hey all this started with the accusation that Trump had colluded with Russia to win the election. Didn't happen. We on the right knew it didn't happen and it was painful to watch the Left convince the country that it did. Funny how quickly you all shift gears though, from cries of treason and jail time and collusion and so on to a kind of choked silence followed by some new wishful set of accusations. This isn't just a threat to Trump, and I really doubt he's worried at all personally, he's too busy trying to get his campaign promises on the table amid all this screaming against him, but it is a threat to the nation, this constant theme that says a sitting President committed treason? And now business fraud of some sort? And you're all so happy about this?
Right, as you say: "moving on isn't possible," and that is precisely the point. The Left wants to keep Trump from moving on to what he was elected to do, they want to bring it all to a screeching halt. What a sleazy political game they are playing with the laws of this nation.
Re: "Unplanned"-- Movie about the reality of abortion
I'm glad to see that the film did well at the box office at its debut, far better than had been anticipated. Some headlines say 3 million, this one says 6 million.. Well, one thing they say they learned in the shooting of it is how powerful prayer is.
The Left wants to keep Trump from moving on to what he was elected to do, they want to bring it all to a screeching halt.
As I've said before, when a politician makes stupid promises, it's better to break them than to keep them. And it's the duty of every responsible citizen to do everything in their legal power to prevent stupid promises from being kept.
You have rather a twisted version of a right wing tenet: the less government the better. But that has to do mainly with the Congress than the Executive branch. There is nothing wrong with Trump's promises, they would save the nation if he can get them enacted. It's Congress's obstructionist interferences, all political in motivation with no concern whatever for democratic processes or the good of the nation and no respect whatever for half the voting population, that is the wrench in the democratic process. But Leftists are dedicated to killing Trump and don't mind if they kill the nation in the process. Trump is the only thing standing in the way of this total descruction they would wreak, thanks to the mercy of God, and we can only hope and pray He continues His mercy. Otherwise hello banana republic, hello third world swamp.
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