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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News (formerly In the News)
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6040
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 1186 of 1376 (850507)
04-09-2019 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1171 by Faith
04-08-2019 4:05 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
So is this where the true beliefs of the fundie right are exposed? Have fundies truly devolved to the point at which they willingly and publicly defend the slave owners. I am not fooling myself and know that a lot of them did feel that way, but now to see it open and public is said and disheartening.
Oh how far we have fallen. I weep for my country and our world. I fear that hate that has been loosed can never be contained again with out a lot of disruption.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1171 by Faith, posted 04-08-2019 4:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7697
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 1187 of 1376 (850508)
04-09-2019 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1154 by Faith
04-07-2019 10:08 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
Faith writes:


Robert E. Lee was no Hitler. To make such a comparison is to be a Class A ignoramus. I think he was a friend of Lincoln's too IIRC, and I don't think he even supported slavery but he fought for his homeland as he should. They were honorable people in those days.

Lee seceded from his homeland, and then fought against people from his homeland, all in a bid to keep slavery in place. There is zero doubt that the Civil War was over slavery, and that what was being defended in that war. If you think that is honorable, then we simply differ in our outlook.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1154 by Faith, posted 04-07-2019 10:08 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6040
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 1188 of 1376 (850509)
04-09-2019 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1154 by Faith
04-07-2019 10:08 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
I think he was a friend of Lincoln's too IIRC

What you think rarely has any basis in reality. They were not friends, they did not even know each other. There is no record that they had ever met. If you have some evidence for them being friends please present it, I am sure many historians would be amazed by your evidence.

Lee was an adamant supporter of slavery. He took out ads for the return of escaped slaves. When his father in law passed away he was supposed to free the slaves father in law had owned. He never did. The slaves on his plantations lived in disgusting conditions. The record shows that his slaves did not have any love for him and that he was just as cruel as all the other slave owners.

He and others wrote a lot after the war to make him look like an enlightened, reluctant slaveowner, but that is all bullshit. The original source material, including interviews with slaves and writing of Union soldiers that liberated his plantations show he was just a cruel slave owner. A lot of the writings of the Union soldiers liberating slaves is very similar to the reports of the freeing of the victims of the holocaust. In some ways slavery was much worse. The holocaust was intended to wipe out a people in a generation. Slavery kept many generations in inhuman conditions. Life and liberty at the will of a capricious master. He also probably had at least one child with a slave. That was not a consensual relationship. It was rape.

Robert E Lee was a vile man. There is no debate about it. He was honorable among other vile slave owners. What does it mean to be considered honorable by child abusers, torturers and rapists?

Some actual facts.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/...ee-and-the-good-slave-owner


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1154 by Faith, posted 04-07-2019 10:08 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6745
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


(3)
Message 1189 of 1376 (850510)
04-09-2019 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1183 by Faith
04-09-2019 1:52 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
Faith writes:

The Bible says we are all sinners, period.

Well it should know, the alleged author created the sinners.

But people who put themselves above others on the basis of PC, or on any basis, essentially denying that they themselves are sinners but other people are really really bad, are definitely not decent people.

Well given that we're all fallible sinners we have fallibilities. But you know, I think my fallibilities are less than murderers and rapists and what's more I think I have a moral responsibility to not only say so, but also support the institutions we've built to defend against such people.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1183 by Faith, posted 04-09-2019 1:52 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1190 by Faith, posted 04-09-2019 9:05 PM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1190 of 1376 (850515)
04-09-2019 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1189 by Tangle
04-09-2019 4:42 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
Well it should know, the alleged author created the sinners.

Oh learn something for a change. This has been answered umpteen zillion times by now. God created everything perfect. Sin entered later and is the cause of all the problems in the world, including death and disease and then the Flood.

Oh you have the right but it's pretty disgusting to put yourself above people like Robert E. Lee. And what's the point in beating your chest over not being a murderer? Shouldn't we be saying There but for the grace of God go I? Murderers are subject to the law, your self righteousness doesn't improve things. And if you don't know you are just as likely to have been a murderer as anyone else you are really missing the point. But I guess fallen humanity can't help putting other people down. It's just that there's something particularly disgusting about the Left's ideological putdowns. Blech.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1189 by Tangle, posted 04-09-2019 4:42 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1192 by Tangle, posted 04-10-2019 3:04 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1193 by Theodoric, posted 04-10-2019 9:41 AM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16358
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 1191 of 1376 (850516)
04-09-2019 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1181 by Faith
04-09-2019 1:41 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
Phat writes:

The Bible says we are all sinners, period. But people who put themselves above others on the basis of PC, or on any basis, essentially denying that they themselves are sinners but other people are really really bad, are definitely not decent people.


Tell it to Faith. She's the one who said R.E. Lee was better than me.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1181 by Faith, posted 04-09-2019 1:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6745
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 1192 of 1376 (850526)
04-10-2019 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1190 by Faith
04-09-2019 9:05 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
Faith writes:

Oh learn something for a change. This has been answered umpteen zillion times by now. God created everything perfect. Sin entered later and is the cause of all the problems in the world, including death and disease and then the Flood.

Your God created evil too and allowed it to 'enter'. Quite a trickster, not so perfect it seems to me.

quote:
“I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known me; that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, who does all these things” (Isa. 45:5-7).

Oh you have the right but it's pretty disgusting to put yourself above people like Robert E. Lee.

I have nothing to say about Robert E Lee.

And what's the point in beating your chest over not being a murderer?

You were suggesting that we sinners are equally sinful, I'm pointing out that we are not.

Shouldn't we be saying There but for the grace of God go I?

God has nothing to do with me not being a murderer.

And if you don't know you are just as likely to have been a murderer as anyone else you are really missing the point.

You're going to have to explain that - but be careful, you're heading for a fall.

But I guess fallen humanity can't help putting other people down. It's just that there's something particularly disgusting about the Left's ideological putdowns.

So you don't think you're better than a murderer? Yet you believe in capital punishment. How does that work?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1190 by Faith, posted 04-09-2019 9:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6040
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 1193 of 1376 (850534)
04-10-2019 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1190 by Faith
04-09-2019 9:05 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
Oh you have the right but it's pretty disgusting to put yourself above people like Robert E. Lee.

Robert E. Lee was a treasonous, child abusing terrorist. He condoned and participated in the brutal physical abuse of numerous people. He split children from their mothers and sold them off like beasts of burden. It was extremely common for slaveowners to have sex with women(and men) that they owned. I have no actual evidence he did, though there is some historical evidence he may have had at least one child with a slave. Even if he did not have sex with slave he at least condoned the rape and sexual terrorism that was going on around him.
I have no problem putting myself above this monster.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1190 by Faith, posted 04-09-2019 9:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1195 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:05 PM Theodoric has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16358
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 1194 of 1376 (850546)
04-10-2019 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1185 by Phat
04-09-2019 2:37 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
I accidentally replied to Faith instead of you in Message 1191.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1185 by Phat, posted 04-09-2019 2:37 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1195 of 1376 (850552)
04-10-2019 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1193 by Theodoric
04-10-2019 9:41 AM


Re: More attacks on the nation
Gosh you admit to having no evidence and yet go on to make further empty allegations against the man. So very Leftist in spirit.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1193 by Theodoric, posted 04-10-2019 9:41 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1196 by Theodoric, posted 04-10-2019 2:41 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1197 by Theodoric, posted 04-10-2019 2:44 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6040
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1196 of 1376 (850568)
04-10-2019 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1195 by Faith
04-10-2019 2:05 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
Maybe you should actually read what I wrote instead of making up shit and lying about what I wrote..

Lets see what I actually wrote.

Me writes:

I have no actual evidence he did, though there is some historical evidence he may have had at least one child with a slave. Even if he did not have sex with slave he at least condoned the rape and sexual terrorism that was going on around him.

I acknowledge there is no hard historical evidence that he raped his slaves. I just mention that there is some possible evidence he did. Some of that is possible genetic showing a relationship between some black families and Lee. This needs to be further examined and some better historical access to actual Lee family records. I do not make the allegation that he did, all I do is mention that there some controversy on the subject.
What I do accuse of him and what he is guilty of, is condoning the practice. His father-in-law fathered at least two children by slaves. His father was known to visit the slave quarters also. Rape of slaves was what his social group did.

So you are lying about what I wrote. How christian of you.

Edited by Theodoric, : Spelling


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1195 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6040
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1197 of 1376 (850569)
04-10-2019 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1195 by Faith
04-10-2019 2:05 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
quote:
In 1826, Custis admitted the paternity of Maria Carter, who had been born in 1803 to Arianna "Airy" Carter (1776-1880), an African-American slave maid at the Arlington estate who had earlier resided at Mount Vernon as a slave of Martha Washington. Maria lived and worked at Arlington as a slave until 1826, when she married Charles Syphax, a slave who oversaw the dining room of Arlington House. Soon after Maria's marriage, Custis freed her and gave her a 17-acre (7-hectare) plot in the southwest corner of the Arlington estate. Maria subsequently raised ten children on her property. Tall trees and stretches of grassland reportedly surrounded Maria's white cottage.[21][30] He is also believed to have fathered a girl named Lucy with the slave Caroline Branham.[31]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_Parke_Custis

You can follow the links to the original sources.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1195 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1198 by Theodoric, posted 04-10-2019 6:38 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6040
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1198 of 1376 (850589)
04-10-2019 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1197 by Theodoric
04-10-2019 2:44 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
He kept his own child in slavery for 23 years.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1197 by Theodoric, posted 04-10-2019 2:44 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1199 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 7:47 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1199 of 1376 (850591)
04-10-2019 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1198 by Theodoric
04-10-2019 6:38 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
So now it's Lee's father in law, not even Lee himself you are poking with your selfrighteous index finger. I'm sure we can all be glad such practices are no longer permissible. Yes we've moved a long way from the mentality of racism and slavery. Wish the Left would recognize that simple fact instead of inventing accusations of racism and white supremacy where they don't exist just to do harm to a political opponent. There isn't a shred of decency on the Left. I still think it pretty low of anyone today to put themselves above people who lived in a completely different cultural framework. Lincoln's own abolitionist views didn't prevent him from treating the racist south as sympatheitic human beings who deserved his respect. Didn't Jefferson keep Sally Hemings in slavery too? Smallminded ignorant uneducated selfrighteous Leftists with the perspective of a cockroach put themselves above flawed great men. Blech.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1198 by Theodoric, posted 04-10-2019 6:38 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1200 by Theodoric, posted 04-10-2019 8:02 PM Faith has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6040
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1200 of 1376 (850594)
04-10-2019 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1199 by Faith
04-10-2019 7:47 PM


Re: More attacks on the nation
As always you completely miss or ignore the point that is being made. As I have said repeatedly, even if he did not rape slaves, most of his social group did rape slaves. He did nothing and said nothing to protest this. Yes he was a man of his society. It was a vile horrible, society that anyone with any sense of decency would not defend.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1199 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 7:47 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1201 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 8:07 PM Theodoric has responded

    
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