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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1742 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Bible Inerrancy stands against all objections | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Paboss Member (Idle past 2063 days) Posts: 55 Joined: |
Faith writes: I'm going with the statement on inerrancy which declares that the Bible is true on every subject it addresses According to the title of your topic, Bible inerrancy stands against all objections. But what does it stand on? A statement? People can write whatever they want. I could, for the sake of the discussion, grant you that all the biblical claims that go against science are right. For example the entire universe being around 6,000 years old, the global flood or Jesus's resurrection. But even then, you have the immense task of addressing every single of the many contradictions in the Bible. For example you have two stories of Paul's conversion; one where the people that were with him saw the light but couldn't hear anything, and the other where they did hear voices but couldn't see anything. In the best case scenario, only one can be correct because they are mutually contradictory. This already shows that at least one single statement in the Bible is incorrect. But is worse; we know the Bible is full of such examples.
Faith writes: Wherever there are some claims that do appear to contradict the Bible, such as the tree rings, as the Statement on Inerrancy says, we trust that they will eventually be explained in accordance with the scripture. I don't see how could that ever happen, but maybe the time to believe such biblical claims is when they are satisfactorily explained, not when we only have some statement saying that the Bible is free from error.
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Paboss Member (Idle past 2063 days) Posts: 55 Joined: |
Discussing about the two versions of Paul’s conversion
Faith writes: The usual resolution of the incident you mention has to do with "hearing" meaning "understanding" and when it says they saw no man nothing contradicts that since in the other cases all they saw was light, not a person. Let’s have a look at the verses themselves: First, look at the NIV version:
quote: If we try to make a single verse out of these two, we could arrive at something like this:
quote: At least when it comes to NIV I can’t really say it is contradictory. Now let’s look at the NKJV:
quote: A single verse out of those would look something like this:
quote: Does it mean they heard some other voice but not that of Jesus? If that is the case I do note that while in the NIV version they hear Jesus's voice and don't understand it, in NKJV they don't hear it at all. It is rather ambiguous, but I guess is not the best verse to argue for biblical contradictions. But there are other verses that I will present to you to argue against your idea that the Bible is inerrant. But before that I want to ask you if there’s any particular version of the Bible that you hold as inerrant or any version will do for you to support your case. Edited by Paboss, : No reason given.
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Paboss Member (Idle past 2063 days) Posts: 55 Joined: |
Faith writes: KJV Ok, So KJV it is. Perhaps you should argue then that the KJV Inerrancy stands against all objections. For what I think is a harder challenge than the one I proposed to you before, let’s look now at the two versions of Judas’s death:
quote: I went through an article from Answers in Genesis where they offer explanations to supposed contradictions. The way they tried to get away with the contradiction is that Judas hanged himself, then his body decayed with time and eventually the tree branch or the rope gave in and broke off. Judas’s body fell down, burst open on impact and the entrails spilled out. They explain that the process of decaying would have taken the body to a point where it would have easily burst open on impact; which would not happen to a body that had just died or to someone dying from the fall. One may bend over backwards big time and give this far-fetched explanation the benefit of the doubt, but they are completely ignoring other contradictions present in the stories:
quote: What do you make of this, Faith. Can you do a better job than them at explaining away this contradiction?
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Paboss Member (Idle past 2063 days) Posts: 55 Joined: |
Faith writes: I don't say the KJV is inerrant, it's a translation, translations aren't inerrant. I thought you wanted to know what translation I use. This is what I asked you:
I want to ask you if there’s any particular version of the Bible that you hold as inerrant or any version will do for you to support your case. And this was your response:
KJV So it did seem like you were saying that the KJV was inerrant. But now I realize you are saying that translations are not inerrant. So which Bible are you arguing for when you say the Bible inerrancy stands against all objections? Are you saying that only the original manuscripts are inerrant? If that is the case, that is something we cannot test. We have no original manuscripts. All we have are copies and translations, which as you and the Chicago Statement acknowledge, are not inerrant. But no Bible is made up of original manuscripts. When the first canon was put together, as late as the 4th century, all they had were copies from the copies from the copies, etc. And when it comes to OT they had translations from the original language, which made it worse. So which document are you exactly talking about when you say the Bible is inerrant? I guess, since we both agree that the KJV, and any translation for that matter are not free from error, you won’t be responding to my challenge about the two versions of Judas’s death.
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Paboss Member (Idle past 2063 days) Posts: 55 Joined:
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Faith writes: As for Science I'll just say again, God blessed the West with true science among many other blessings, because of the West's adherence to Biblical Christianity. It doesn't matter whether the scientist is an atheist or a believer, the science is a gift from God to the Christian west. And Allah blessed the Middle East with Maths, because of the Middle East's adherence to Islam. Funny thing, both Science and Maths, have helped us to better understand reality and realise these gods are nowhere part of the equation.
Faith writes: I could not have become a believer without what I took to be solid evidence, though I'd say that it was just about all witness evidence. I believed what many believable honest people said. And then I had some supernatural experiences of my own, and God answered my prayers and that too is evidence. I understand this paragraph as you saying that you were already convinced and then had some supernatural experiences that confirmed your belief. But what were those experiences and what about it led you to the conclusions you arrived at?
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Paboss Member (Idle past 2063 days) Posts: 55 Joined:
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LNA writes: I was arguing for a (very real) possibility that Paul actually felt Adam was created, from the beginning, as mortal. The book of Genesis agrees with you. If you look at the story of Adam and Eve, when they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they didn't die nor became mortal. What happened to them was the exact thing the snake said. God kicked them off Eden so that they wouldn't eat from the Tree of Life and live forever. This means they weren't immortal, but if they had eaten from the Tree of Life they would have become. Hence, they were created mortal. Maybe that's how Paul and the people of his time saw this story, but as time went on the meaning was altered to suit a different audience.
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