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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1142 of 1385 (853882)
06-02-2019 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1107 by caffeine
05-29-2019 2:16 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
You raise some valid points ... which is probably why Mayr suggested the definition of macroevolution rest on a level of "genus OR EVEN HIGHER" (at least, that's what someone told me Mayr said - I don't have his original quote). Perhaps the higher one goes, the less ambiguous classification gets.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1107 by caffeine, posted 05-29-2019 2:16 PM caffeine has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1143 of 1385 (853883)
06-02-2019 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1115 by Tanypteryx
05-30-2019 12:54 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tanypteryx writes:
We already know how macroevolution occurs
I greatly fear you’re suffering a delusion. The truth is, you only THINK you know how macroevolution occurs - you’re conflating your personal belief and a scientific theory. All we “know” is how MICROevolutions occur. You don’t even “know” that microevolutions lead to macroevolution. because you can’t demonstrate it is so.
Furthermore, since you “know how macroevolution occurs”, you won’t have any trouble telling me how you would go about breeding a mammal from a reptile. Good luck with that.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1115 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-30-2019 12:54 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1145 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-02-2019 2:24 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1144 of 1385 (853884)
06-02-2019 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1130 by DrJones*
05-31-2019 2:29 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
DrJones writes:
this is the internet, loud mouth assholes like you are a dime a dozen.
I greatly admire you debating skills and your clever arguments. But most of all I admire your sense of humour.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1130 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2019 2:29 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1151 by DrJones*, posted 06-02-2019 12:10 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1147 of 1385 (853889)
06-02-2019 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1131 by Taq
05-31-2019 3:39 PM


Re: aliens-did-it is not a scientific theory
So, you can demonstrate this it's impossible for genetic engineering to produuce a phylogenetic signal?
Btw, is a phylogeneitic signal detectable in the fossil record?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1131 by Taq, posted 05-31-2019 3:39 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1162 by Taq, posted 06-03-2019 6:15 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1152 of 1385 (853943)
06-03-2019 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1089 by RAZD
05-28-2019 6:53 AM


Re: aliens-did-it is not a scientific theory
RAZD writes:
it doesn't appear to be falsifiable
Okay, so how do you falsify the theory that
"Macroevolution = Microevolutions + Time" ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1089 by RAZD, posted 05-28-2019 6:53 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1161 by RAZD, posted 06-03-2019 11:38 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1153 of 1385 (853944)
06-03-2019 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1119 by Tanypteryx
05-31-2019 12:21 AM


Re: Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
Tanyptyerx writes:
Nope, it's more like, So what? If we don't have answers to all the questions that's a good thing, because it means we have lots of things to challenge us, new discoveries to find, it makes life interesting.
I appreciate that, as an atheist, you have no choice but to believe the Darwinist narrative - even if creatures appear out of nowhere in the fossil record. In a thousand years' time, atheists will still be using this excuse - "the fossil record is incomplete!"
Those poor little trilobites: They gaze up from the fossil beds asking, "Where did I come from?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1119 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-31-2019 12:21 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1158 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-03-2019 1:38 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1165 by Meddle, posted 06-03-2019 9:51 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1154 of 1385 (853945)
06-03-2019 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1145 by Tanypteryx
06-02-2019 2:24 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tanyptyerx writes:
I don't give a shit about reptiles and mammals, I'm in charge of the important ones, INSECTS.
Let me get this straight . You’re a professional biologist and you claim to “know how macroevolution occurs”, yet you are clueless as to how you would breed a mammal from a reptile? Okay, well let’s try something really simple: How would you breed a double-cell organism from a single-cell organism?
Not your area of expertise? Fair enough; how about this then ... How would you breed an insect with wings from an insect without wings?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1145 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-02-2019 2:24 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1157 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-03-2019 1:27 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1155 of 1385 (853946)
06-03-2019 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1126 by edge
05-31-2019 9:31 AM


Re: YEC vs OEC
edge writes:
Okay, then, let me reword my question. If your theory is not true, why have you spent 70 some pages defending it?
Haven’t I already answered this question? For your sake, I will reiterate: I believe my “aliens” theory is the best SCIENTIFIC explanation for the fossil record, according to the parameters set by modern science - ie, methodological naturalism. However, since I believe there is more to reality than methodological naturalism, I don’t believe my “aliens” theory is the best explanation for the fossil record (notice how I didn’t say “the best SCIENTIFIC explanation”). I believe the best explanation for the fossil record is a non-scientific explanation.
So I have two explanations for the fossil record, depending on which “game” I’m playing. Are you familiar with the term, “Horses for courses”?
I never said that you believe it or that you should believe it. That's kind of the point.
But you can believe that a theory is false - even if you believe it's the best scientific theory available.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1126 by edge, posted 05-31-2019 9:31 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1159 by edge, posted 06-03-2019 10:50 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1164 by Taq, posted 06-03-2019 6:20 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1156 of 1385 (853947)
06-03-2019 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1089 by RAZD
05-28-2019 6:53 AM


Re: aliens-did-it is not a scientific theory
RAZD writes:
unlike the ToE which is falsifiable
How do you falsify ToE?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1089 by RAZD, posted 05-28-2019 6:53 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1160 by RAZD, posted 06-03-2019 11:33 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1167 of 1385 (854005)
06-04-2019 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1149 by AZPaul3
06-02-2019 4:47 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
AZPaul3 writes:
This YEC trope has been around forever. It was an intellectually vacuous argument decades ago and is downright stupid now.
I’m not surprised others have noticed the same thing - it seems to be a fundamental and obvious contradiction. Btw, you haven’t answered my question: If the THEORY of evolution is “true”, why don’t you call it the FACT of evolution?
Furthermore, it’s my understanding that a scientific theory is never “true”, but is “validated” according the evidence in its favour.
So first you get a population of amniotes which evolve into the synapsids, and the sauropsids. The synapsids begat the Eupelycosaurs who begat the sphenacodontians who then begat the Sphenacodontids who then begat the Therapsids who finally begat the mammals. And at each begat we're talking millions of years of microevolution with lots of intermediate begats in between each of those.
Sorry, but you haven’t told me anything useful in terms of a breeding program. If you have an amniote, for example, how do you breed it to evolve into a synapsid?
Dog breeders have experimented with inbreeding simply to see what will happen and what weird mutations they can come up with. In other words, they have used every trick in the book to change the morphology of dogs - and what they have found is, the further genetics are pushed the more harmful mutations arise, thus limiting how far breeding can go. This fact contradicts your Darwinist fantasy that a dog can eventually be bred into a non-dog.
Well, you see, Dredge, dog breeders are not looking to breed a non-dog. They want to breed only a specific type of dog with a highly restrictive set of features. So they inbreed closely related animals which restricts the resultant gene pool for that breed leading to deformities. Artificial selection does that.
You live in a dream world. Try and bred a dog into a non-dog and see what happens - you will end in the same genetic “dead-end” that thousands of years of dog breeding has - ie, a drastically less-diverse population riddled with harmful mutations. All you will end up “evolving” is sick, weak, unfit dogs!
But hey, I understand that an atheist has no choice but to believe that evolution is responsible for the fossil record, despite the reality-denying absurdity of that position.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1149 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2019 4:47 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1172 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2019 4:12 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1175 by Pressie, posted 06-04-2019 8:48 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1180 by Taq, posted 06-04-2019 1:38 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1181 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 2:03 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1168 of 1385 (854006)
06-04-2019 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1149 by AZPaul3
06-02-2019 4:47 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
AZPaul3 writes:
You are a YEC. And a rather dumb one at that.
1. No, as I've pointed out many times, I'm not a YEC.
2. For someone with a fragile, eggshell mind and an IQ of 9, I think I'm doing alright (Did you know it only took me ten years to complete seven years of primary school?)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1149 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2019 4:47 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1173 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2019 4:18 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1169 of 1385 (854007)
06-04-2019 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1150 by edge
06-02-2019 12:02 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
edge writes:
Dredge harangues us that the fossils don't tell us how life changed over time.
No, Dredge accepts the same fossil record as you do.
Here’s the problem for Darwinists: Fossils tells us nothing about the mechanism of macroevolution, and it cannot be demonstrated that microevolution leads to macroevolution (on the contrary, thousands of years of animal and plant breeding demonstrates that there are genetic limits to how far organisms can “evolve”) . So all you have left to “explain” the fossil record is blind faith (born of atheism) in Darwinian evolution. Unfortunately blind faith is not science.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1150 by edge, posted 06-02-2019 12:02 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1177 by edge, posted 06-04-2019 9:11 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1170 of 1385 (854008)
06-04-2019 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1151 by DrJones*
06-02-2019 12:10 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
DrJones writes:
ah that's sweet but you shouldn't waste your time flirting with me, i like women
Very sorry - I got the strong impression that you were gay - my bad.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1151 by DrJones*, posted 06-02-2019 12:10 PM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1174 by vimesey, posted 06-04-2019 5:40 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1171 of 1385 (854009)
06-04-2019 2:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1126 by edge
05-31-2019 9:31 AM


Re: YEC vs OEC
edge writes:
Learn what?
You don't fool me - I know that, as a result of my teaching on this site, you are now seriously questioning your Darwinist beliefs and are thinking of converting to some form of creationism.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1126 by edge, posted 05-31-2019 9:31 AM edge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1176 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 8:49 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1182 of 1385 (854136)
06-05-2019 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1172 by AZPaul3
06-04-2019 4:12 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
AZPaul3 writes:
Is that what you're looking for? A fuckin breeding program!
Yes - I asked you for a breeding program that will produce macroevolution. Believe it or not, macroevolution sort of needs organisms to breed in order for it to happen.
To evolve amniotes to synapsids/sauropsids nature took millions of colonies of different species of amniotes, put them in a nice wet warm place and let chemistry work its majik. A few million years later the amniotes were still there but had evolved two separate forms. How's that for a breeding program
Sorry, but your breeding program tells me nothing about how to breed a synapsid from an amniote.
If someone asked you how to breed a sausage dog from a wolf, for example, and you said "put them in a nice (warm) place and let chemistry work its majik", they would rightly conclude that you know ZILCH about dog breeding.
So - as I suspected - you actually have no idea how you would go about producing a synapsid from a amniote. So much for you claimed knowledge of macroevolution - you've just proven you have none! It seems that your so-called knowledge turns out to be nothing but blind faith - "Gee, I dunno ... evolution done it!"
We are quite familiar with this inbreeding disaster and how/why it forms.
.
... and why genetic disasters place a limit on how far the dog genome can be "stretched".
Despite the obvious genetic "dead ends" encountered by dog breeders, you still believe the deluded fantasy that dogs could eventually be breed into non-dogs.
I could ask you how you would go about breeding a non-dog from a dog, but you'd be as clueless about that as you are about breeding a synapsid from an amnoite.
Disingenuous fool.
Oh look, a petulant insult - the last resort of the clueless. Classy stuff.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1172 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2019 4:12 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1192 by AZPaul3, posted 06-05-2019 11:59 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1193 by AZPaul3, posted 06-05-2019 1:08 PM Dredge has replied

  
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