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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 145 of 1385 (849633)
03-16-2019 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
03-16-2019 2:11 PM


Re: Name one.
Phat writes:
Conservatives think...
Oxymoron.
Phat writes:
It is hard to believe that Trump and Bernie Sanders shared a UCA.
It's easier to believe that Trump shares a UCA with parasitic worms - with apologies to the parasitic worms; they can't help it.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 03-16-2019 2:11 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 162 of 1385 (849669)
03-17-2019 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Dredge
03-17-2019 2:03 AM


Dredge writes:
Pray tell. how is the concept of UCA helping scientists to "understand how life on our planet is reacting to climate change"?
I presume by looking at how climate change may have affected evolution in the past. But this is a classic case of goalpost-shifting. You asked for examples of uses for the UCA. There's an example. Now you're demanding that I justify the usefulness of the example? As I said earlier in the thread, it's up to scientists to decide what's useful to them. Nobody cares whether you agree.
Dredge writes:
I can't recall claiming they don't use evolutionary biology.
Then you're shooting yourself in the foot. If they use it, it's useful.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Dredge, posted 03-17-2019 2:03 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Dredge, posted 03-20-2019 2:10 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 163 of 1385 (849670)
03-17-2019 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Phat
03-16-2019 4:53 PM


Re: Name one.
Phat writes:
I had to look up "religionist".
That's odd. I've used it often enough before.
Phat writes:
I wonder if the animal brain rules the thinking in addicted religionists?
According to Wikipedia:
quote:
The amygdala appears to play a role in binge drinking, being damaged by repeated episodes of intoxication and withdrawal.[75] Alcoholism is associated with dampened activation in brain networks responsible for emotional processing[clarification needed], including the amygdala.[76] Protein kinase C-epsilon in the amygdala is important for regulating behavioral responses to morphine, ethanol, and controlling anxiety-like behavior. The protein is involved in controlling the function of other proteins and plays a role in development of the ability to consume a large amount of ethanol.
See also Agression, Fear, Anxiety, etc. in the same article.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 03-16-2019 4:53 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 164 of 1385 (849671)
03-17-2019 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Dredge
03-17-2019 1:50 AM


Re: Don't creationists have a universal common ancestor too?
Dredge writes:
Please demonstrate how any of these uses depend on accepting the concept of UCA.
The topic is "practical use", not "depend on".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Dredge, posted 03-17-2019 1:50 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Dredge, posted 03-20-2019 2:16 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 172 of 1385 (849725)
03-19-2019 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Dredge
03-18-2019 11:48 PM


Dredge writes:
You can't provide an example of a practical use for evolutionary theory.
You're being dishonest. You've moved the goalposts from UCA to evolutionary theory.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Dredge, posted 03-18-2019 11:48 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Dredge, posted 03-20-2019 1:40 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 193 of 1385 (849756)
03-20-2019 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Dredge
03-20-2019 1:40 AM


Dredge writes:
1. Where did I say I'm dropping the concept of UCA from the discussion?
I didn't say you dropped anything. I said you changed the question from the one that people have been answering.
Dredge writes:
2. The concept of UCA implies evolutionary theory.
But evolutionary theory doesn't necessarily imply UCA. Even if you could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was no use for UCA, that would not falsify UCA. And even if you could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was no UCA, that would not negate evolutionary theory.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Dredge, posted 03-20-2019 1:40 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Dredge, posted 03-23-2019 2:12 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 194 of 1385 (849757)
03-20-2019 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Dredge
03-20-2019 2:10 AM


Dredge writes:
How has "looking at how climate change may have affected evolution in the past" provided a practical use today? You made the claim, now you need to back it up with supporting evidence - to wit: a specific example.
Climate change is a specific example.
Dredge writes:
You're implying that I said ALL evolutionary biology is useful, which is not what I said at all.
I know. You said the opposite. I'm pointing out that that's nonsense.
Scientists do use evolutionary theory and UCA. If they use it, it's useful to THEM whether you think it's useful or not. If somebody thinks tobacco is useful in his work and he uses it, your opinion on its usefulness is worthless.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Dredge, posted 03-20-2019 2:10 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by Dredge, posted 03-23-2019 2:17 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 195 of 1385 (849758)
03-20-2019 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Dredge
03-20-2019 2:16 AM


Re: Don't creationists have a universal common ancestor too?
Dredge writes:
ringo writes:
The topic is "practical use", not "depend on".
It's the same thing.
Don't be silly. I can think of a practical use for potato chips. That doesn't mean I depend on them.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Dredge, posted 03-20-2019 2:16 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Dredge, posted 03-23-2019 3:12 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 235 of 1385 (849855)
03-23-2019 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Dredge
03-23-2019 2:12 AM


Dredge writes:
ringo writes:
But evolutionary theory doesn't necessarily imply UCA
Yes it does.
No it doesn't. Life could have evolved separately - on each continent, for example. The process of evolution would be the same.
Dredge writes:
That's basically what ToE is - all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor via a process of natural selection.
No. The common ancestor is based on observation. The observations happen to lead back to one root but that is not a requirement of the evolutionary process.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Dredge, posted 03-23-2019 2:12 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Dredge, posted 03-26-2019 1:02 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 236 of 1385 (849856)
03-23-2019 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Dredge
03-23-2019 2:17 AM


Dredge writes:
you can't back up your claim (that the evolutionary history of the world has proven practically useful in tackling climate change) with any facts.
On the contrary, if scientists do use it, it is useful. Maybe it isn't necessary, like oxygen, but it is useful. Do you understand the difference?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Dredge, posted 03-23-2019 2:17 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Dredge, posted 03-26-2019 1:04 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 237 of 1385 (849857)
03-23-2019 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by Dredge
03-23-2019 3:12 AM


Re: Don't creationists have a universal common ancestor too?
Dredge writes:
ringo writes:
I can think of a practical use for potato chips. That doesn't mean I depend on them
"none of the progress made in biology DEPENDS even slightly on a theory"
Louis Bouroune ( Professor of Biology, University of Strasbourg), Determinism and Finality, 1957, p. 79. (emphasis mine)
Yes, Professor Bouroune is saying the same thing as I am - there is no dependency. We don't have to be dependent on something for it to be useful. What part of that do you not understand?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Dredge, posted 03-23-2019 3:12 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by JonF, posted 03-23-2019 2:24 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 259 of 1385 (849896)
03-24-2019 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Tanypteryx
03-24-2019 5:20 PM


Genera do not mate....
That would be some orgy.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-24-2019 5:20 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 279 of 1385 (849934)
03-26-2019 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by Dredge
03-26-2019 1:02 AM


Dredge writes:
ringo writes:
The common ancestor is based on observation.
If so, where was this common ancestor observed and what name did they give it? And please provide an photo of its fossil remains.
I said that the common ancestor is "based on observation", not that it has been observed. Similarly, the electron is based on observation, even if there are no fossils of it.
Dredge writes:
ToE has two parts:
1. All organisms on earth are connected and related to each other, since they all descended from a common ancestor.
2. All life on earth descended from a common ancestor via a process of natural selection (and other mechanisms, which could collectively be called, "the evolutionary process").
No. The ToE is about how one species evolves into another. The common ancestor is not a necessary part of the ToE.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Dredge, posted 03-26-2019 1:02 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 315 by Dredge, posted 03-31-2019 2:59 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 280 of 1385 (849935)
03-26-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by Dredge
03-26-2019 1:04 AM


Dredge writes:
What is your evidence that they "do use it"?
"Despite denials by some ignorant creationists, scientists around the world are using the science of evolutionary biology to understand how life on our planet is reacting to a changing climate." Message 25
If you dispute that statement, it's up to you to show that it's wrong.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Dredge, posted 03-26-2019 1:04 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 316 by Dredge, posted 03-31-2019 6:06 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 308 of 1385 (850016)
03-28-2019 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Porkncheese
03-28-2019 12:05 PM


Re: Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Porkncheese writes:
Pitdown man was the basis of this pseudoscience for over 100 years before it was embarrassingly uncovered as a deliberate hoax.
Piltdown Man was exposed as a fraud by the very science that you scoff at.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Porkncheese, posted 03-28-2019 12:05 PM Porkncheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by JonF, posted 03-28-2019 1:26 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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