Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (8908 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 05-27-2019 8:20 AM
26 online now:
CosmicChimp, Faith, foreveryoung, jar, Sarah Bellum (5 members, 21 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WeloTemo
Post Volume:
Total: 852,116 Year: 7,152/19,786 Month: 1,693/1,581 Week: 72/443 Day: 12/60 Hour: 4/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
6364
65
6667
...
72Next
Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
edge
Member
Posts: 4578
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 961 of 1074 (852477)
05-11-2019 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 949 by Dredge
05-11-2019 7:33 PM


You've missed the point of the discussion: How is accepting UCA theory essential to developing new medicines? Provide an example.

Okay, let's check the title of this thread ...

" Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?"

And, oh wait! It's your own thread ...

Troll much lately?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 949 by Dredge, posted 05-11-2019 7:33 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 973 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 8:47 PM edge has not yet responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 4578
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 962 of 1074 (852478)
05-11-2019 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 950 by Dredge
05-11-2019 7:37 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
I was expecting this - ...

I try not to disppoint.

... apparently someone intelligent enough to be a Professor of Computer Science isn't intelligent enough to study the fossil record.

And apparently plumbers are not qualified to do brain surgery.

Life just isn't fair, is it?

If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger.

Actually, I prefer to school the person who commits a major fallacy of reasoning.

Now prove that he's wrong.

Later. It might be kind of fun, but I found the passage to be mind-numbing on the first pass. Just all the usual stuff ...
This message is a reply to:
 Message 950 by Dredge, posted 05-11-2019 7:37 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 975 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 8:53 PM edge has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6788
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 963 of 1074 (852479)
05-12-2019 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 917 by Dredge
05-09-2019 7:35 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Dredge writes:

The gaps are where aliens performed genetic engineering to produce a novel organism(s).

Just to clarify a few things that you believe.

The earth is very old - let's say 3.4bn years?
Your Christian god created it?
Your Christian god created simple life forms which then evolved through natural processes into more complex lifeforms?
Until they got to the Cambrian, then aliens got to work with their genetic engineering?
Then normal evolution occurs again for the next 600million years or so?
(Do the aliens return after the various mass extinction events- maybe after dinosaurs go extinct for instance?)
Then we get to our ape descendants where your Christian god comes back and create Homo sapiens?

Is that about it?

Did you Christian god make the aliens?

Do you worship the aliens?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 917 by Dredge, posted 05-09-2019 7:35 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 977 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:16 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2153
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(2)
Message 964 of 1074 (852482)
05-12-2019 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 954 by Dredge
05-11-2019 7:51 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Dredge writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

I'm trying to find out if you have any knowledge about "genetic engineering," although I already know the answer.


I know next to nothing about genetic engineering.

Yeah, I was beginning to suspect that.

Dredge writes:

Do you think it would be possible to make organisms evolve by genetic engineering?

I have never thought of genetic engineering as a mechanism of evolution, just like I don't consider selective breeding as a mechanism of evolution either.

Would you consider stem cell therapies to try and cure an individual's genetic disease, genetic engineering? Or is genetic engineering strictly modifying the germ line?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 954 by Dredge, posted 05-11-2019 7:51 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 980 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:35 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19845
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 965 of 1074 (852486)
05-12-2019 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 863 by Dredge
05-08-2019 6:03 PM


Re: does a species from one genus evolve into a species from another genus ... yes
RAZD writes:

So the evidence of Pelycodus shows "a species from one genus evolved into a species of a new genus." The genus did not exist before this new nomenclature was applied.


The best scientific explanation for the appearance of a new genus is genetic engineering performed by aliens.

And they miraculously knew scientists were going to give it a new genus name instead of continuing the old one with a new species.

That's some wicked strong magic. How did they do that?

Except that the evidence shows an absence of outside tampering

On the contrary, the fossil record shows abundant evidence of "outside tampering".

Please provide. preferably documented in a scientific journal. I know of none.

while common ancestry in living species is observed and thus is a known process.

Certainly,, common ancestry is observed, but the evolution of a new genus has never been observed - even thousands of years of intensive artificial selection by humans - using every trick in the book - has failed to produce anything even close to a new genus. In other words, the evidence suggests the genus barrier cannot be crossed by natural means.

Mostly because producing a new genus was not the intent of artificial selection.

1. The fossil record cannot be explained by any observed process.

And yet it has been explained by the ToE, your refusal does not negate the explanation.

2. The existence of aliens may be "invisible" but it is not "undetectable" - the fossil record is powerful scientific evidence of genetic engineering - and the only scientific explanation for that engineering is aliens.

Please document with results of scientific study of same. Without substantiation this is just pseudoscience masquerading as science, and not worth the bandwidth taken to post

The difference between science and pseudoscience is substation by documented evidence. Pseudoscience is characterized by a lack of (if not distain for) evidence, relying instead on made up fantasies.

The Darwinian "explanation" is lame, outdated and little more than rehashed spontaneous generation - a nineteenth-century superstition.

And yet the ToE still explains all the known evidence. No it is not a rehash of spontaneous generation, and all that comment does is demonstrate your ignorance of evolution. Perhaps that is your reason for picking on aliens ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 863 by Dredge, posted 05-08-2019 6:03 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1003 by Dredge, posted 05-13-2019 9:30 PM RAZD has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 966 of 1074 (852501)
05-12-2019 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 934 by RAZD
05-10-2019 2:34 PM


Re: NO evidence of aliens
RAZD writes:

With no evidence of aliens, nor of any mechanism by which the insert their "genetic engineering" during observed processes of evolution, there is no basis for making this assumption.


If you can push ToE without producing any observable macroevolution then I can push my "aliens did it" theory without producing an observable alien. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Particularly as the ToE does explain it without the use of aliens (Occam's wicked razor). This is why the ToE has been validated and the "alien genetic experiment" concept has not.

It will take time for scientists to get used to my new theory. I predict that in ten years time, my "aliens did it" theory will have largely replaced the outdated and childishly inadequate theory of Darwinian evolution. So I suggest that the sooner you wake up and grow up out the nineteenth century, the better.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 934 by RAZD, posted 05-10-2019 2:34 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 971 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 8:39 PM Dredge has responded
 Message 1021 by RAZD, posted 05-15-2019 12:02 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 967 of 1074 (852502)
05-12-2019 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 937 by Tanypteryx
05-10-2019 11:15 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:

I have no idea why you would post this crap from a whackjob like David Gelernter. "A mere 70-odd million years."


Why do you call David Gelernter a whackjob? He's not more a whackjob than I am.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 937 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-10-2019 11:15 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 979 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 9:32 PM Dredge has responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 968 of 1074 (852503)
05-12-2019 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 956 by AZPaul3
05-11-2019 8:07 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
AZPaul3 writes:

Really? Did you lose track of the conversation?


You've got "pictures" of macroevolution? What does that even mean?
You have a video of macroevolution actually occurring?

Or do you mean pictures of fossils, the gaps between which you fill with ToE? If so, these are the same pictures of fossils, the gaps between which I fill with aliens performing genetic engineering.

Could you be recieving alien transmissions over that aluminum hat you wear?

You mean "receiving".

For your information, my aluminium hat is shaped like a radar dish. I haven't received any transmissions yet, but that doesn't nullify my theory.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 956 by AZPaul3, posted 05-11-2019 8:07 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 974 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 8:51 PM Dredge has responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 969 of 1074 (852504)
05-12-2019 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 958 by JonF
05-11-2019 8:24 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Those particular gaps may or may not be shrinking. Others are. Not explaining everything is not in itself a reason for discarding a theory.

A nineteenth century theory based on the superstition of spontaneous generation and which is contradicted by fossil evidence are perfectly good reasons for concluding that that theory is grossly inadequate and suspect.

OTOH a fantasy like your aliens, which answers every question with "aliens did it" is identical to the creationist "God did it". It explains nothing.

1. It explains a lot more than your primitive, steam-engined Darwinism. It's a case of Spontaneous Generation v. Genetic Engineering; nineteenth-century thinking v. 21st-century thinking; steam engine v. interstellar space travel.

2. "God did it" is not a scientific theory - "aliens did it" is. "Evolution did it" is a scientific theory, but a very poor and outdated one.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 958 by JonF, posted 05-11-2019 8:24 PM JonF has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 976 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 8:59 PM Dredge has responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 970 of 1074 (852505)
05-12-2019 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 959 by edge
05-11-2019 10:09 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
edge writes:

Your aliens are part of a mechanism.


No, you are confused. The aliens are the cause, not the mechanism. Your dud ToE doesn't even have a cause!

The mechanism should be detectable, or at least known by some inference.

Genetic engineering as a mechanism is as detectable as your mechanisms of evolution. The difference is, your evo-mechanisms can only demonstrate puny little microevolutions, whereas the potential of genetic engineering to produce macroevolutions cannot be doubted and has in fact already been demonstrated by scientists via observations and repeatable experiments. Where is your demonstration of observable macroevolution?

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 959 by edge, posted 05-11-2019 10:09 PM edge has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3965
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 971 of 1074 (852506)
05-12-2019 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 966 by Dredge
05-12-2019 7:52 PM


Re: NO evidence of aliens
... without producing any observable macroevolution ...

And mammalia doesn't count ... why?

We have the rodents in the Cretaceous through pretty much the entire radiation of mammals extent today as our example of microevolution resulting in a wide deep spread of macroevolution. We even have cow-like hippo things turning into fish-like whale things.

So what you got, again?

I predict that in ten years time, my "aliens did it" theory will have largely replaced the outdated and childishly inadequate theory of Darwinian evolution.

And I predict that in 10 years time you'll be on two additional statins and a beta-blocker and you'll need to go pee every 3 hours.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 966 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 7:52 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1004 by Dredge, posted 05-13-2019 9:36 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 972 of 1074 (852507)
05-12-2019 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 960 by edge
05-11-2019 10:17 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
edge writes:

You have not presented evidence for such agents.


I have - millions of people believe in the existence of aliens based on evidence. The fossil record is also scientific evidence of aliens.

It's in the patterns.

Oh, you mean a "pattern" such as inexplicable jump from assymetrical to bilateral? Or from worm to insect? That's funny!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 960 by edge, posted 05-11-2019 10:17 PM edge has not yet responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 973 of 1074 (852508)
05-12-2019 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 961 by edge
05-11-2019 10:21 PM


Okay, let's check the title of this thread … " Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?"

You should have just said, "I can't think of any practical medical use for the theory of common descent".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 961 by edge, posted 05-11-2019 10:21 PM edge has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3965
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 974 of 1074 (852509)
05-12-2019 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 968 by Dredge
05-12-2019 8:12 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Or do you mean pictures of fossils, the gaps between which you fill with ToE?

If by "fill with ToE" you mean by filling those gaps with the same processes we see where there are no gaps, yea, that's about right. I guess you have a problem with the logic on this, don't you.

You mean "receiving".

I do indeed.

my aluminium hat is shaped like a radar dish. I haven't received any transmissions yet

You might want to try the Fedora style. I understand the folds are more conducive to the alien communication waveform.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 968 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 8:12 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1005 by Dredge, posted 05-13-2019 9:39 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 975 of 1074 (852510)
05-12-2019 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 962 by edge
05-11-2019 10:26 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
edge writes:

And apparently plumbers are not qualified to do brain surgery.


It's funny you should mention that - I once paid (a carton of beer) a motorcycle mechanic to do some brain surgery on me, and as far as I can tell, it worked out just fine.

Later. It might be kind of fun, but I found the passage to be mind-numbing on the first pass.

My mind feels numb most to the time, yet I am still capable of producing ingenious thoughts in the form of beautiful science.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 962 by edge, posted 05-11-2019 10:26 PM edge has not yet responded

    
RewPrev1
...
6364
65
6667
...
72Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019