Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (8908 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 05-27-2019 7:27 AM
27 online now:
Pressie (1 member, 26 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WeloTemo
Post Volume:
Total: 852,111 Year: 7,147/19,786 Month: 1,688/1,581 Week: 67/443 Day: 7/60 Hour: 4/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
6465
66
6768
...
72Next
Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3965
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 976 of 1074 (852511)
05-12-2019 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 969 by Dredge
05-12-2019 8:22 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
A nineteenth century theory based on the superstition of spontaneous generation and which is contradicted by fossil evidence are perfectly good reasons for concluding that that theory is grossly inadequate and suspect.

Then I'm glad no one subscribes to such a theory.

We have the ToE which is so much better, so accurate, so successful, so predictive.

Amazing what science can do with facts.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 969 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 8:22 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1006 by Dredge, posted 05-13-2019 9:44 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 977 of 1074 (852512)
05-12-2019 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 963 by Tangle
05-12-2019 1:49 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tangle writes:

The earth is very old - let's say 3.4bn years?


Correct.

Your Christian god created it?

Not quite correct. My Christian God created it (ie, not "god" but "God").

Your Christian god created simple life forms which then evolved through natural processes into more complex lifeforms?

Incorrect. God created simple life forms which "evolved" via non-natural processes into more complex lifeforms.

Until they got to the Cambrian, then aliens got to work with their genetic engineering? Then normal evolution occurs again for the next 600million years or so? Then we get to our ape descendants where your Christian god comes back and create Homo sapiens?

Incorrect. My "aliens" theory has nothing at all to do with my "God" theory. They are two separate theories. I wear two different hats - my "God" hat and my "Science" hat, depending on the audience.

When I'm wearing my Science hat, my "aliens' theory is my best SCIENTIFIC theory for the what was responsible the fossil record. But having said that, I don't believe my or any "best scientific theory" for what is responsible for the fossil record, because I believe science cannot explain what is responsible for the fossil record.

When I'm wearing my God hat, I believe the fossil record can be explained only by miracles and divine intervention.

So I believe my God theory, but not my "aliens" theory. My "aliens" theory is simply a demonstration the stupendous brilliance of my scientific mind and an attempt to win a Nobel Prize for Science.

Do the aliens return after the various mass extinction events- maybe after dinosaurs go extinct for instance?

Extinction events can be explained by some unforeseen natural event that the aliens had no control over, or they can be explained by the aliens getting bored with a certain line of genetic experimentation and starting again on a different tact - although other aliens scenarios can be thought of besides the "boredom" hypothesis.

Do you worship the aliens?

No way! I worship only God. The "aliens" are just a fantasy masquerading as science … you know, just like Darwinism is.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 963 by Tangle, posted 05-12-2019 1:49 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 978 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 9:25 PM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 982 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 9:41 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3965
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 978 of 1074 (852513)
05-12-2019 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 977 by Dredge
05-12-2019 9:16 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
non-natural processes

You mean as in smoke and mirrors majik? Maybe more like she sneezed her nose at some DNA?

When I'm wearing my God hat, I believe the fossil record can be explained only by miracles and divine intervention.

You forgot the nose sneezing.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 977 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:16 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2153
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 979 of 1074 (852514)
05-12-2019 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 967 by Dredge
05-12-2019 7:57 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Dredge writes:

Why do you call David Gelernter a whackjob? He's not more a whackjob than I am.

I guess I will never know why you posted Gelernter's crap.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 967 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 7:57 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 981 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:40 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 980 of 1074 (852515)
05-12-2019 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 964 by Tanypteryx
05-12-2019 10:51 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:

I have never thought of genetic engineering as a mechanism of evolution


A probable explanation for that is, I am a genius and you are a intellectual mediocrity.

Would you consider stem cell therapies to try and cure an individual's genetic disease, genetic engineering? Or is genetic engineering strictly modifying the germ line?

Er, why have you posed me this question immediately after I said "I know next to nothing about genetic engineering"? A genius doesn't know everything!

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 964 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 10:51 AM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 983 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 9:45 PM Dredge has responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 981 of 1074 (852516)
05-12-2019 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 979 by Tanypteryx
05-12-2019 9:32 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:

I guess I will never know why you posted Gelernter's crap.


Prejudice is easy - the hard part is proving that it's "crap".
This message is a reply to:
 Message 979 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 9:32 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 984 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 9:47 PM Dredge has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2153
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 982 of 1074 (852517)
05-12-2019 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 977 by Dredge
05-12-2019 9:16 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Dredge writes:

My "aliens" theory is simply a demonstration the stupendous brilliance of my scientific mind and an attempt to win a Nobel Prize for Science.

The Nobel Prize for Science, Huh? Is there somewhere we can order t-shirts?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 977 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:16 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3965
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 983 of 1074 (852518)
05-12-2019 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 980 by Dredge
05-12-2019 9:35 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
I know next to nothing about genetic engineering

If the genius doesn't know anything about the subject then why is he expounding on it? That's not genius. That's egomaniac delusion.

Is your hair orange?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 980 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:35 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1007 by Dredge, posted 05-13-2019 9:51 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2153
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 984 of 1074 (852519)
05-12-2019 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 981 by Dredge
05-12-2019 9:40 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Dredge writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

I guess I will never know why you posted Gelernter's crap.


Prejudice is easy - the hard part is proving that it's "crap".

It's up to him to prove it's not crap.

And I still am not a step closer to know why you posted it.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 981 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:40 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 985 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:53 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 985 of 1074 (852520)
05-12-2019 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 984 by Tanypteryx
05-12-2019 9:47 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:

It's up to him to prove it's not crap.


Er, no … that's not how it works - you made the claim that it's crap, so the onus is on your to prove your claim.

Furthermore, I made no claim about Gelernter's opinion on the fossil record; I merely posted his thoughts.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 984 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 9:47 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 986 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 10:24 PM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 987 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 11:59 PM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 988 by JonF, posted 05-13-2019 9:03 AM Dredge has responded
 Message 989 by Theodoric, posted 05-13-2019 12:26 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3965
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 986 of 1074 (852521)
05-12-2019 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 985 by Dredge
05-12-2019 9:53 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Do you think Prof. Gelernter's views have any credence with the keepers of the sacred ToE?

He's a religiously inspired computer programmer.

I have as much influence over the intellectual directions of biology and evolution as does he.

But his ideas are somewhat wacked as are yours so I'm thinking that kinship of delusion is your reason for citing him.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 985 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:53 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2153
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 987 of 1074 (852522)
05-12-2019 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 985 by Dredge
05-12-2019 9:53 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Dredge writes:

Er, no … that's not how it works - you made the claim that it's crap, so the onus is on your to prove your claim.
Furthermore, I made no claim about Gelernter's opinion on the fossil record; I merely posted his thoughts.

And I still have no idea why you posted anything by or about him. I still think it's crap.

I have no interest in what he writes or thinks on any subject and as far as I can tell, he is not doing research on any subject I'm interested in learning more about.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 985 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:53 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4748
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


(4)
Message 988 of 1074 (852531)
05-13-2019 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 985 by Dredge
05-12-2019 9:53 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Er, that's not how it works. The act of posting is making a claim of relevance for which you are responsible for (and obviously incapable of) supporting. .

YECs have a habit of not "allowing" any logical deductions from their messages, acknowledging only strict literal readings. Seems to be a consequence of their inabilities.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 985 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:53 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1025 by Dredge, posted 05-21-2019 9:20 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6137
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 989 of 1074 (852541)
05-13-2019 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 985 by Dredge
05-12-2019 9:53 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 985 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2019 9:53 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7774
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 990 of 1074 (852542)
05-13-2019 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 939 by Dredge
05-11-2019 6:29 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:

My aliens are as invisible as your macroevolution.

Macroevolution is seen in every comparison of genomes:

"Outside of a time machine, Darwin could hardly have imagined a more powerful data set than comparative genomics to confirm his theory."--Francis Collins, "Faith and the Human Genome"

We can also see it in the fossil record:

Covering your eyes doesn't make the evidence go away.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 939 by Dredge, posted 05-11-2019 6:29 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1026 by Dredge, posted 05-21-2019 9:48 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
RewPrev1
...
6465
66
6768
...
72Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019