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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Louis Morelli
Junior Member (Idle past 23 days)
Posts: 5
From: Newark New Jersey USA
Joined: 02-03-2009


Message 1321 of 1371 (858249)
07-18-2019 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1320 by RAZD
07-18-2019 1:39 PM


If you change aliens by Greek soldiers and the draws of OVNIs by draws of reality, you would relating exactly what could happens in the Plato's cavern, where the designer would be the free slave. By the way, yours aliens really knows the collective human mind... Thank you by remembering me my actual situation due seeing beyond our terrestrial cave.

But, the astronomic LUCA is not bringing on the alien world to humans, it is driven humans towards the universal natural reality. With this wrong mindset, humans are the aliens in this universe.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1320 by RAZD, posted 07-18-2019 1:39 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Louis Morelli
Junior Member (Idle past 23 days)
Posts: 5
From: Newark New Jersey USA
Joined: 02-03-2009


Message 1322 of 1371 (858267)
07-19-2019 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Dredge
03-07-2019 12:40 AM


Re: Name one.
How is UCA relevant to protein folding?

From Evolutionary Biology theory of UCA, I think their model offers no use. But from Matrix/DNA model of UCA it is relevant to almost everything in technology, medicine, etc. UCA was/is a working system. Any natural system has its parts connected by a circuit, where is running the flow of informations, connecting all parts. Proteins are bits, slices of this circuit. So, if we align all proteins in the right sequence, we have rebuild the whole circuit. And we can replicate a system. And we can change the slices producing diseases, for example.

But UCA is/was more mechanical than biological. Because it is/was the evolutionary link between the last non-biological natural system (described by Newtonian mechanics and not by Biology). UCA became the fundamental unit of information of RNA/DNA because severe mutation due falling in a new environment ( Earth's surface). Earth is inside UCA, so, it was merely a process of reproduction, or nurturing seeds.

The face of UCA is the face of DNA's unit of information (two lateral nucleotides with 6 nitrogenous bases), which is also a wonderful working system in itself ( but the Science of Biology does not know it yet). Due Physics having the wrong cosmological model, they does not know everything about astronomic systems, our real parents in the sky, around us, and us inside them.

Now, if you are a theoretical deist, you will say Matrix/DNA is wrong, if you are a theoretical atheist you will say it is wrong. I think that rationally, any believe that separates Universal Evolution into two blocks (cosmological and Biological evolution) without a rational evolutionary link between them is magical thought, so, deism and atheism. I am here advocating a third world view, an agnostic one. I think it is my right to do it also.

Edited by Louis Morelli, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Dredge, posted 03-07-2019 12:40 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1326 by Dredge, posted 07-20-2019 7:55 PM Louis Morelli has not yet responded
 Message 1328 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-21-2019 6:34 PM Louis Morelli has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1323 of 1371 (858269)
07-19-2019 4:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1310 by RAZD
07-15-2019 12:45 PM


Re: It tells us who we are.
RAZD writes:

It tells us who we are.


Whatever that means … and which has nothing to do with a practical use in applied science for the Darwinian explanation of the history of life on earth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1310 by RAZD, posted 07-15-2019 12:45 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1324 by RAZD, posted 07-19-2019 8:27 AM Dredge has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20257
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 1324 of 1371 (858278)
07-19-2019 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1323 by Dredge
07-19-2019 4:34 AM


Re: It tells us who we are.
RAZD writes:

It tells us who we are.


Whatever that means … and which has nothing to do with a practical use in applied science for the Darwinian explanation of the history of life on earth.

Applied science (engineering essentially) is making use of knowledge to make practical things, like bridges and roads, but also medicines and foods. You've been told this already.

Knowing who we are means not wasting a lot of time and bandwidth on fantasies but spending that time on actual works of value. It also means doing those things instead of waiting for magic fantasies to fix it.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1323 by Dredge, posted 07-19-2019 4:34 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1332 by Dredge, posted 07-23-2019 12:05 AM RAZD has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1325 of 1371 (858493)
07-20-2019 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1316 by AZPaul3
07-17-2019 2:29 PM


AZPaul3 writes:

he is a CRP (crazy religious person) who has recurrent voices and visions playing in his head.


You’re showing your true colours now - you know full well that you aren’t speaking the truth.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1316 by AZPaul3, posted 07-17-2019 2:29 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1327 by AZPaul3, posted 07-20-2019 8:47 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1326 of 1371 (858495)
07-20-2019 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1322 by Louis Morelli
07-19-2019 1:36 AM


Re: Name one.
Louis Morelli writes:

How is UCA relevant to protein folding?


It isn’t. Applied biology has no use at all for the concept of UCA or even for the “information” that humans and chimps share a common ancestor.

Now, if you are a theoretical deist, you will say Matrix/DNA is wrong, if you are a theoretical atheist you will say it is wrong. I think that rationally, any believe that separates Universal Evolution into two blocks (cosmological and Biological evolution) without a rational evolutionary link between them is magical thought, so, deism and atheism. I am here advocating a third world view, an agnostic one. I think it is my right to do it also.

I agree that you have every right to express your very entertaining and fantastic ideas. Have you ever thought about writing science-fiction?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1322 by Louis Morelli, posted 07-19-2019 1:36 AM Louis Morelli has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4739
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 1327 of 1371 (858498)
07-20-2019 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1325 by Dredge
07-20-2019 7:50 PM


You’re showing your true colours now - you know full well that you aren’t speaking the truth.

You’re right. I left off the “B”. BCRP (Batshit Crazy Religious Person) – voices, visions and all.

Serious, Dredge, you really should seek professional help. The kind of voices and visions you relayed are not normal.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1325 by Dredge, posted 07-20-2019 7:50 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1576
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 1328 of 1371 (858548)
07-21-2019 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1322 by Louis Morelli
07-19-2019 1:36 AM


Re: Name one.
quote:

Now, if you are a theoretical deist, you will say Matrix/DNA is wrong, if you are a theoretical atheist you will say it is wrong. I think that rationally, any believe that separates Universal Evolution into two blocks (cosmological and Biological evolution) without a rational evolutionary link between them is magical thought, so, deism and atheism. I am here advocating a third world view, an agnostic one. I think it is my right to do it also.


Creationism assumes that things can start fully formed in their most advanced state.

The planets are there right from the start.

Man is there right from the start.

How?

"God did it".

Where is there a "problem" to the creationism model?

The creationist will see no problem (seeing what one wants, that is)

But, God is even more of a problem, because God is the most advanced being possible.

At least the standard (Big Bang)cosmological model takes into account nuclear physics, which will be replicated in the lab in a PREDICTABLE way.

What about biology?

Nuclear physics will be used to date the rocks and put all the LIVING things (that is fossils) in the order of their respective appearance.

You can then deduce biological evolution as the best theory.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1322 by Louis Morelli, posted 07-19-2019 1:36 AM Louis Morelli has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1329 by Louis Morelli, posted 07-21-2019 9:50 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
Louis Morelli
Junior Member (Idle past 23 days)
Posts: 5
From: Newark New Jersey USA
Joined: 02-03-2009


Message 1329 of 1371 (858563)
07-21-2019 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1328 by LamarkNewAge
07-21-2019 6:34 PM


Re: Name one.
Thanks by debating this... two heads thinks better than one... Reading your post I concluded that you have preferred the materialist worldview and not the creationist. I told that I prefer a third world view, still unknown by you. So, let's go:

You say: " Creationism assumes that things can start fully formed in their most advanced state."

Yes, I can't agree with magical creationism, because I never saw anything like that. But... in Nature we can see a real fact where one thing starts predetermined to be a complex thing in its advanced state. I am referring to embryogenesis. There is a second stage, the birth, when the thing starts in its advanced state. So, the creationist theory has a foundation in reality about the phenomena, but it is completely wrong about the process. It is a natural process, there is no magics.

Now, if you pay attention in the first moment that this thing starts, it is called "fecundation". Here, a genome as spermatozoon has its membrane "exploded", at the center of an ovule. This is the first moment of a new human body.
Now we have the question: how and from where Nature got this idea to do this thing in this way? Nature is not magical, it can not create new information beyond those it received at its beginning. There are informations produced by fuzzy logics, but this is another history, that happens in running processes.
Then, we see the scene of the spermatozoon and it remembers the... "big bang"! It makes sense: Nature creates things by the same process it has started, or created.

Physics and Mat can not grasp the effects from biological organization of matter when analysing an event. Physics and Mat works with the structure, the bone skeleton of a human body, but it can do nothing in relation to the meat, the brain, the biological organization, the forces that comes from the system, as a biological system...

So, I think this question is very rational: " If Nature repeats a process when creating new things, and if the scene of "big bang" is the same at origins of Universe and origins of life, and if we are trying to understand the Big Bang of the Universe using only Physics and Mat, not Biology, who can say that the big bang of the Universe has not obeyed effects from a prior biological organization of matter?

Can you answer that? But... this solution is more rational than any other. Now, I will tell you that I tried to apply the known effects of biological systems upon the big picture of Big Bang as described by Physics and Mat. The final results did not change anything in relation to the scientific postulates used by Big Bang Theory, but changed a lot the way we interpret that event. It is so drastic the new interpretation that it builds a new never thought world view.

I am waiting that someone else do the same exercise, I need to see their results, maybe I have made some mistakes. This new world view is suggesting that materialism and creationism has 50% of errors and 50% corrections... like this issue.

You: At least the standard (Big Bang)cosmological model takes into account nuclear physics, which will be replicated in the lab in a PREDICTABLE way."

As I said above, my opinion is that in this world that produced biological organization of matter and life can not be described only by Physics and Mat. Because this Universe is not magical for creating Biology and life from nothing and having no information for doing it. And Biology must be there since the first moment of this universe and beyond that. And if I am right, no, the right Big Bang will not be repicable with the knowledge offered by Physics and Mat alone. But... everything are our theories, give time to time...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1328 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-21-2019 6:34 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1330 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-21-2019 10:39 PM Louis Morelli has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1576
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 1330 of 1371 (858564)
07-21-2019 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1329 by Louis Morelli
07-21-2019 9:50 PM


Re: Name one.
quote:

Thanks by debating this... two heads thinks better than one... Reading your post I concluded that you have preferred the materialist worldview and not the creationist. I told that I prefer a third world view, still unknown by you. So, let's go:


I don't doubt that we got to where we are.

I agree with creationists that man him-/her-/it-self exists.

quote:

You say: " Creationism assumes that things can start fully formed in their most advanced state."

Yes, I can't agree with magical creationism, because I never saw anything like that. But... in Nature we can see a real fact where one thing starts predetermined to be a complex thing in its advanced state. I am referring to embryogenesis. There is a second stage, the birth, when the thing starts in its advanced state. So, the creationist theory has a foundation in reality about the phenomena, but it is completely wrong about the process. It is a natural process, there is no magics.


Scientists have not been able to create life in the lab.

There has been success with amino acid creation.

But not a full protein ("incomplete or complete).

And then one would need to be able to replicate itself in order to to really satisfy creationists.

One has to wonder if a creationist will then say that "anything created in the lab can ONLY be proof for Creationism".

"It happened so quickly, so THAT is "creation"!"

quote:

Now, if you pay attention in the first moment that this thing starts, it is called "fecundation". Here, a genome as spermatozoon has its membrane "exploded", at the center of an ovule. This is the first moment of a new human body.
Now we have the question: how and from where Nature got this idea to do this thing in this way? Nature is not magical, it can not create new information beyond those it received at its beginning. There are informations produced by fuzzy logics, but this is another history, that happens in running processes.
Then, we see the scene of the spermatozoon and it remembers the... "big bang"! It makes sense: Nature creates things by the same process it has started, or created.

After reading this:

Now I really think a 13 billion year old universe will be used to support creationism.

Will YECs even see that as proof?

quote:

Physics and Mat can not grasp the effects from biological organization of matter when analysing an event. Physics and Mat works with the structure, the bone skeleton of a human body, but it can do nothing in relation to the meat, the brain, the biological organization, the forces that comes from the system, as a biological system...

So, I think this question is very rational: " If Nature repeats a process when creating new things, and if the scene of "big bang" is the same at origins of Universe and origins of life, and if we are trying to understand the Big Bang of the Universe using only Physics and Mat, not Biology, who can say that the big bang of the Universe has not obeyed effects from a prior biological organization of matter?


I am not so sure that biology in a previous universe is part of this theory-type, but the IDEA of previous universes collapsing into what became the START (Big Bang) of our Universe were very prominent until the Dark Energy discovery 20 some years ago.

quote:

Cyclic model - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_model
Conformal cyclic cosmology—a general relativity based theory due to Roger Penrose in which the universe expands until all the matter decays and is turned to light—so there is nothing in the universe that has any time or distance scale associated with it.
‎Overview · ‎The Baum–Frampton model · ‎Other cyclic models

New evidence for cyclic universe claimed by Roger Penrose and ...
https://physicsworld.com/...c-universe-claimed-by-roger-penr...
Aug 21, 2018 - So says a trio of scientists led by mathematical physicist Roger Penrose in a paper presenting new evidence that our universe is just one stage ...

Penrose claims to have glimpsed universe before Big Bang – Physics ...
https://physicsworld.com/...limpsed-universe-before-big-bang
Nov 19, 2010 - Penrose claims to have glimpsed universe before Big Bang. ... That is the sensational claim being made by University of Oxford theoretical physicist Roger Penrose, who says that data collected by NASA's WMAP satellite support his idea of “conformal cyclic cosmology”.

These Swirls of Light Could Be Signs of a Previous Universe Existing ...
https://www.sciencealert.com/...oints-sign-previous-universe...
Aug 16, 2018 - If our Universe happened to be locked in an eternal heartbeat of ... Mathematical physicist Roger Penrose has a reputation on par with ... Oscillating universes come in a few different forms, depending on your choice of model.

Cycles of Time: An Extraordinary New View of the Universe by Roger ...
https://www.theguardian.com/...les-time-roger-penrose-review
Oct 15, 2010 - Manjit Kumar examines Roger Penrose's theory of the big bang.

The Conformal Cyclic Cosmology Of Roger Penrose — Guest Post by
https://wmbriggs.com/post/18701/
Apr 30, 2016 - At times this has led to scientific ideas, such as continuous creation or an oscillating universe, being advanced with a tenacity which so exceeds ...

Roger Penrose | American Institute of Physics
https://www.aip.org/...els-bohr-library/oral-histories/34322
See additional images of Roger Penrose. ...... One might then have believed in a previously collapsing phase, such as in an oscillating universe model. But the ...
Possible confirmation of Mills' 'Oscillating Universe' and GUT-CP ...
https://dannyhurley007.com/...-mills-oscillating-universe-an...
Sep 11, 2018 - “I actually emailed Roger Penrose with this last year.” “Did you get a response?” “No… but then he is 'Sir' Roger Penrose, and what we know of ...

The Conformal Cyclic Cosmology of Roger Penrose - Rational Catholic
rationalcatholic.blogspot.com/2016/04/worlds-without-end-conformal-cyclic.html
Apr 24, 2016 - ... such as continuous creation or an oscillating universe, being advanced with a ... Chris Isham, "Creation of the Universe as Quantum Process"in Physics, ... Roger Penrose, "Before the Big Bang, an Outrageous Perspective.".

How Physics Lost Its Fizz - Scientific American Blog Network
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...hysics-lost-its-fizz
Jan 18, 2016 - According to the oscillating-universe hypothesis, this cycle of cosmic ... Steinhardt and Neil Turok and in Cycles of Time by Roger Penrose.


Then

quote:

Can you answer that? But... this solution is more rational than any other. Now, I will tell you that I tried to apply the known effects of biological systems upon the big picture of Big Bang as described by Physics and Mat. The final results did not change anything in relation to the scientific postulates used by Big Bang Theory, but changed a lot the way we interpret that event. It is so drastic the new interpretation that it builds a new never thought world view.

I am waiting that someone else do the same exercise, I need to see their results, maybe I have made some mistakes. This new world view is suggesting that materialism and creationism has 50% of errors and 50% corrections... like this issue.


I don't think I am the one to help, and it isn't your fault.

quote:

You: At least the standard (Big Bang)cosmological model takes into account nuclear physics, which will be replicated in the lab in a PREDICTABLE way."

As I said above, my opinion is that in this world that produced biological organization of matter and life can not be described only by Physics and Mat. Because this Universe is not magical for creating Biology and life from nothing and having no information for doing it. And Biology must be there since the first moment of this universe and beyond that. And if I am right, no, the right Big Bang will not be repicable with the knowledge offered by Physics and Mat alone. But... everything are our theories, give time to time...


Is it "intelligence" that biology alone presents, which you are concerned with?

Intelligent "design" is the issue, or (another issue) is your concern just about a previous universe already coded in a way that will create a type of determinism which brings biology in the recurring (our current 13 billion year old) universe?

Aside from a previous universe becoming our current universe, perhaps the possibility of other dimensions (4th dimension possibility and I am not saying "time is the forth dimension" but I mean a real 4th dimension) might help answer some questions (but pose more). Can intelligence (however "evolved" from some process pre-Big Bang) in another dimension explain some things that happen with biology?

A tubular hose looks like a flat line from a distance, but it is actually a wrap around. Perhaps our flat looking reality is wrapped around a not-seen 4th dimension. Like a mile long strip of land appearing flat to us, but really more of a tubular wrap around in reality. A 4th dimension is right there (somewhere "near") but we cannot ever get to it.

Like the 2 dimensional "flat-landers" cannot get to us 3-D entities. As a flat/2-D human on a television/computer screen cannot interact with us.

Those in the advanced dimension can (somehow)guide the lower dimensional things.

But it all evolved somewhere.

Is this just plain old I.D.?

Probably.

And it is just a thought.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1329 by Louis Morelli, posted 07-21-2019 9:50 PM Louis Morelli has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1331 by Louis Morelli, posted 07-22-2019 4:16 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Louis Morelli
Junior Member (Idle past 23 days)
Posts: 5
From: Newark New Jersey USA
Joined: 02-03-2009


Message 1331 of 1371 (858570)
07-22-2019 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1330 by LamarkNewAge
07-21-2019 10:39 PM


Re: Name one.
Thanks for criticizing my results, this is a good test.

You: "I agree with creationists that man him-/her-/it-self exists."

Yes, my method applied that found this new world view was obeying a premisse: your conclusion in this step has at least one real proved parameter in Nature? If not, stop here, if so, go ahead. So, is there any parameter for black holes somewhere? Have you seeing singularity being repeated at any place in this world? No? Then, the black hole theory is not product of pure rational thinking, there is some kind of mysticism in it. Hawkins must be wrong. There is another thing hidden in galactic nucleus. Calculate it again, but, please, obeys the premise of real proved known parameters.

Then, I found that neither the magic intelligent creator of creationists, neither the little atom preferred by academic materialism has known parameters in Nature. Mysticisms. Calculating universal evolution in reverse way ( from what is here now going into past obeying the mechanisms of Darwinian evolution), I arrived to that kind of "natural genetic" big bang: the thing that produced our world had the universe as placenta (fulfilled with dark matter like amnion), used the normal reproduction process (which does no applies intelligent design like my parents did not applied it for producing my body), it was a complex natural system, and conscious. So, the universe is not important, what matter is the thing being reproduced inside it, by a kind of natural genetic/computational genome like a code.

It means the universe would be cyclic if each time a woman get pregnancy and build a placenta we would say that the placenta is cyclic. The thing being reproduced here is not cyclic, it can be under evolution, will born more evolved than the thing that produced it, not a eternal static cycle. My results has a natural known parameter, so, I am not appealing to invent ghosts like as the initial small magic atom or intelligent magic designer.

You: "There has been success with amino acid creation. But not a full protein..."

Yes, it is missing something at the Urey/Miller experiment. What? A kind of genetic instructions that drives those amino acids by the process of life's cycle, changing its shape (protein folding) and continuing to drive the whole process that academic world view calls "abiogenesis". But... the results of my theoretical model of this galaxy is suggesting what is missing... and how we can get it. I can't understand why these people is believing that the first cell system came from a mass, a soup of ingredients, composed by non-organic matter. Life does need coming from life, because "life" is a wrong concept, but, natural systems only can coming from another system. So, there was a hidden system inside the real natural soup. My models found that the building block of galaxies are working, complete systems identical to a fundamental unit of DNA, which is also the same working system. This galactic system can be nannotecnologized like nature does with a a big human body encrypting it inside a microscopic genome. This genome, seeds of life, is spread in the shape of a network of photons coming from this star, cosmic radiation, Earth's nuclei by Earth's magnetic field - this is what is missing in the labs. There was no abiogenesis... and so, there was astronomic embryogenesis with severe mutation due nurturing in a new very different environment. I hope someday somebody with access to a lab will try it. There was no "origins of life" because if you call a bacteria as living thing you must call a building block of galaxies as living thing also: they have same properties.

You: " One has to wonder if a creationist will then say that "anything created in the lab can ONLY be proof for Creationism"

No, if the method I am suggesting will create a working cell system in the lab will be created naturally by Nature. Scientists will merely composing the right reduced Oparin's environment with the right elements, and let's leave Nature doing its works like in agriculture it does an explendid job. Do you know something? There is a secret in natural light wave that neither Einstein saw. It propagates into time/space by the same process that the body of a human baby propagates (growing in age and size) into time/space: the process of life's cycle. The seven molecules of DNA's unit of information (two lateral nucleotides with adenine, thymine, etc.) are assembled by the same process, life's cycle. So, there is a universal genetic code for building all natural systems encrypted in any natural light wave, like that emitted at the Big Bang. Our difficult job is getting the right photons in the right sequence and inoculating it as a working software in the Urey's soup. But, then, creationists will say that God used a software encrypted into light for creation... (Light was the arms and hands of God!"

You: " New evidence for cyclic universe claimed by Roger Penrose..."

Yes, I have been busy reading Penrose but I don't know what is his goal. Universes can be seen as cyclic, like we can see the ovules produced by women as cyclic. The important thing, my goal, is not the ovule or the placenta composed by this super agglomerates of galaxies, called universe, the important is the fetus, the embryo, being built inside it. It is a fetus composed by which we call "consciousness" which also has an internal anatomy, is a working system itself, a new shape of the universal formula for systems. The genes of this construction are spread in this universe, as conscious aliens, like us, human beings. And I search which future is reserved to these genes. My results are suggesting that we can celebrate our existence, we will have a great future.

You said: " Is it "intelligence" that biology alone presents, which you are concerned with?"

No, my results are suggesting that Physics with Math are limited to the skeleton, the cosmological structure of the Universe. But, skeletons are built by biological organization of matter. And biological is not the end: after that there is neurology, the brain, another organization of matter. And I think the thing goes on, there is the conscious organization of matter, above neurology... Intelligence is not necessary in this whole universal process. The producer, as suggested by these theoretical models, is/was a natural system doing everything naturally. Mother giraffe does not need applying intelligence neither magics for producing ovules and baby giraffes.

You said: "Those in the advanced dimension can (somehow)guide the lower dimensional things."

Yes, this is what the models are suggesting, after discovering that secret in light waves. Our difference is about the substance and logistic of processes composing the invisible dimensions. You know that the electromagnetic spectrum shows seven different kinds of radiation. You know that the process of life's cycle changes the shapes of your body, from blastulae, to fetus, to senior. I told above that light waves propagates moved by life's cycle process. These seven kind of radiation at atomic and light level corresponds to seven shapes of your body. The light wave emitted at the Big Bang occupies the whole universe dividing natural phenomenons into seven dimensions. The system being developed inside this Universe must crossing the seven dimensions, through evolution.

Our natural ( and technological) sensors can grasp only one dimension, the fourth dimension. I think that the plants, animal, cosmological levels are the three below dimensions. So we are at the fourth dimension, going to the fifty. Then, you are right, everything we think we know now ( Krauss and creationists are saying that we know everything already) will change, but, for getting to the fifty we need first to know everything about the first, the second, the third, and our actually fourth... Maybe we are not losing our time debating this issues, maybe you are doing a good investment for crossing the barriers... Cheers... ohhh, I will tell something more that the models are suggesting very important for our evolution:

The big fault that creationists and materialists are doing as prejudices to knowledge is dividing universal evolution into two blocks, cosmological and biological evolution. There is no such division, everything is a continuum, then, they don't get to understand the origins of biological organization, life, etc. Not knowing the evolutionary link between these two stages of universal evolution is the cause they need to imagine magic things, as magic gods or magics accidents, for to fulfill the abysm they created between the two blocks. But, the cause is in our brain, the division into two hemispheres. If you see the Matrix/DNA formula you will see the map of the brain, the formula usually is divided into left face and right face. Every thought obeys the systemic circuit in the formula, it begins with a signal received by the hippocampus performing F1, the flow of thought goes to the left side lifting up towards the cortex (F4). Here, instead the thought entering the right hemisphere and going to F6, there is the corpus callosum, so, the flow falls straight to F1, the hippocampus. There are indications that the world here and now, biological evolution is encrypted into the left, and things away like cosmological evolution is at the right hemisphere. In this way, besides humans thinking they are rational, is not, there is no neuronial configuration for complete thoughts. A divided brain see a divided universal history. Those that can't wait Nature fixing this fault can accelerate it by mentalizing exercises: with the Matrix/DNA map in mind, trying to drive the flow of any thought crossing the corpus calosing and doing the whole spherical complete circuit, arriving to F1.

Why Nature made this big prejudice to us, a brins dividided into two? Biological systems has the same tendency of matter, searching the eternal thermodynamic equilibrium. It is possible only for complete closed systems. But closed systems are closed doors to its own evolution. Our non-biological ancestor did this mistake. For solving this problem and getting evolution again Nature needs to break up the closed system into two parts, so, there is an opened system. This is merely temporary, we will learn the lesson, our brains will be ok.

is this assumption an absurd? Then, why the unique human practicing this exercise is also the unique and first human talking about one unique universal evolution, suggesting the face of an evolutionary link, which should be the real LUCA, and with a new different interpretation of universal history and meaning? I don't know, I am not sure of anything, but it would be an absurd coincidence also... Cheers...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1330 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-21-2019 10:39 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1332 of 1371 (858702)
07-23-2019 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1324 by RAZD
07-19-2019 8:27 AM


Re: It tells us who we are.
RAZD writes:

Applied science (engineering essentially) is making use of knowledge to make practical things, like bridges and roads, but also medicines and foods. You've been told this already.
Knowing who we are means not wasting a lot of time and bandwidth on fantasies but spending that time on actual works of value. It also means doing those things instead of waiting for magic fantasies to fix it.


Whatever … you still haven’t yet given me a practical use in applied science for the Darwinian interpretation of the history of life on earth.

Btw, this is getting off-topic, but what does the Darwinian interpretation of the history of life on earth tell us about “who we are”?

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1324 by RAZD, posted 07-19-2019 8:27 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1334 by RAZD, posted 07-24-2019 4:29 PM Dredge has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8163
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 1333 of 1371 (858791)
07-23-2019 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1278 by Dredge
07-04-2019 2:52 AM


Dredge writes:

Are you referring to this: Our analyses indicate that disease mutations show definite patterns when examined from an evolutionary perspective. Human replacement mutations resulting in disease are overabundant at amino acid positions most conserved throughout the long-term history of metazoans.?
If so, how do you get from amino acid positions to the fossil record?

The fossil record is used to construct phylogenies which are then used to detect mutations involved in disease.

This is a direct application of evolution in applied science.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1278 by Dredge, posted 07-04-2019 2:52 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1336 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2019 1:53 AM Taq has responded
 Message 1340 by Dredge, posted 08-01-2019 9:53 PM Taq has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20257
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 1334 of 1371 (858883)
07-24-2019 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1332 by Dredge
07-23-2019 12:05 AM


Re: It tells us who we are.
Whatever … you still haven’t yet given me a practical use in applied science for the Darwinian interpretation of the history of life on earth.

You missed it.

Btw, this is getting off-topic, but what does the Darwinian interpretation of the history of life on earth tell us about “who we are”?

Maybe you should try to figure that one out. It's not rocket science.

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1332 by Dredge, posted 07-23-2019 12:05 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1335 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2019 1:51 AM RAZD has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1335 of 1371 (859236)
07-30-2019 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1334 by RAZD
07-24-2019 4:29 PM


Re: It tells us who we are.
RAZD writes:

You missed it.


I didn't miss it. All you gave me was some irrelevant rhetoric, not a practical use. Try again.

Maybe you should try to figure that one out. It's not rocket science.

God could have created life via a process of Darwinian evolution. What does that tell us about "who we are"?

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1334 by RAZD, posted 07-24-2019 4:29 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1337 by AZPaul3, posted 07-30-2019 3:50 AM Dredge has responded
 Message 1339 by RAZD, posted 07-30-2019 9:53 AM Dredge has responded

  
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