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Author Topic:   Elites
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2 of 31 (844029)
11-24-2018 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
11-24-2018 2:28 PM


Re: Elites
From your article:
When left populists rail against elites they are generally referring to economic and political power. Their target is the richest 1% that owns half the world’s wealth: the newspaper moguls, bankers, political donors and corporate lobbyists; Tony Blair, the Clintons, the Bushes, Old Etonians, Old Harrovians, Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, Harvard, Bullingdon. Those people who run things unchecked from a position of absolute and relative privilege that is often inherited. (...)But when rightwing populists focus on elites they are mostly referring to culture. Their targets are filmmakers, actors, lecturers, journalists, globalists, spiritualists, scientists and vegans; the Clintons, Hollywood, Londoners, New Yorkers, Silicon Valley, Sussex and Berkeley. These are the people the right claim are responsible for shaping what people can see or hear, and limiting what they can say.(...) they evoke a mythical, homogenous people and culture, only to claim it is being besieged by cosmopolitans, multiculturalists and immigrants.
I've often noticed this as well. I am unimpressed with most of the arguments...primarily from the Right, as they often parrot what other fellow conservatives and media outlets say. There is a lack of original thought and critical thinking in these arguments.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Straggler, posted 11-24-2018 2:28 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Straggler, posted 11-24-2018 2:48 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 31 (844032)
11-24-2018 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Straggler
11-24-2018 2:41 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
There are people on both sides who dont fit the stereotypes. Does that really affect the overall arguments? Or are there really any arguments apart from sound bytes??

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Straggler, posted 11-24-2018 2:41 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Straggler, posted 11-24-2018 3:14 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 31 (844037)
11-24-2018 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Straggler
11-24-2018 2:48 PM


Re: Elites
Straggler writes:
I think those on the left and those on the right are talking almost different languages on this topic. To me Trump (for example) is so patently, clearly and demonstrably part of the elite that it’s undeniable hypocrisy on his part to be railing against the elites in the way that he does. But to his supporters (and presumably to him) the fact he is an inherited millionaire who has spent his entire life in the presence of wealth and power has nothing to do with his elite-ness.
To me, it's about taking sides and identifying who it is whom you think is actually against you and your family interests. Two examples in my own life and circle:
Steve---grew up religious. His Mama "baptized" him in front of her couch when he was 7. They always attended Assemblies Of God churches where people would speak in tongues and pray for hours. Lots of emotional hype. Yet a very poor family. They were clearly pro-Trump in this last election. To Steve, his "enemies" in life are the immigrants who have always taken his jobs and worked for less, keeping him down. Granted he has no education. As an American, he feels cheated by the government...who allowed immigrants to work the low-level jobs for even less than Steve would have done. He also believes in the End Times theology and sees the government as part of a global conspiracy against the people of God. "The Globalists".His conservative church saw a good candidate in Donald Trump...he sold them the idea that they...the poor forgotten masses...would be forgotten no longer.
My second example is another man of modest means...an atheist and a frequent poster on EvC. He sees Trump and his wealthy Capitalist Cronies as the clear enemy and is a supporter of a larger working class who helps one another rather than competes against one another. Even though the wealthy 5% are part of the problem, he also sees a competitive middle class who keeps the poor of the world under them as an equal if not greater key to the problem. He frequently calls me out on my claims to Christianity, arguing that the Jesus of the Bible was an early advocate of the system of equality and universal brotherhood that he envisions.
Two poor men. Two diametrically opposite views. What do you make of it?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Straggler, posted 11-24-2018 2:48 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 15 of 31 (844097)
11-25-2018 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Hyroglyphx
11-24-2018 11:16 PM


Re: Elites
Whenever somebody brings up "The Elites" or "The Globalists" or whatever other buzzwords to denote some outsider with a vision contrary to your own, to me it is akin to "They/Them." "They" are so often nameless people who embody whatever the antithesis or inverse of your own belief system or set of values. And of course, in true dramatic fashion, everything they do is underhanded, nefarious, and pernicious.
"They" are a convenient scapegoat to explain away all our social ills, whether real, imagined, or exaggerated.
Well said. I myself claim to be a political moderate. I vote based on which candidate I feel would help me the most. Obama and the Democrats support unionism more than do the Republicans, and my job pays me $5.00 more an hour due to union contracts than the market value of my position. I am becoming more aware of my own bias as well as the bias of either political party and/or left vs Right Ideology.
Got this from the internet...it sums up some key points:
quote:
The fundamental differences between left-wing and right-wing ideologies center around the rights of individuals vs. the power of the government. Left-wing beliefs are liberal in that they believe society is best served with an expanded role for the government. People on the right believe that the best outcome for society is achieved when individual rights and civil liberties are paramount and the role and especially the power of the government is minimized.
Examples of an expanded role for the government include entitlement programs such as social security and Medicare, Medicaid, universal healthcare, food stamps, free public education, unemployment benefits, strong environmental laws, and other regulations on industries. Right wing ideology would favor market-based solutions to the issues that these government programs aim to tackle. For example, encouraging a freer marketplace for healthcare, driven by consumer choice to drive down costs. Or privately held retirement accounts like 401(k) plans instead of government-guaranteed Social Security.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-24-2018 11:16 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 17 of 31 (844137)
11-25-2018 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
11-25-2018 2:34 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
It isn't where you've been that makes you an elite. It's where you are now. The guy who's selling insurance and ladies' shoes in Kentucky was not an elite. George Clooney the celebrity is.
Why? Just because he has money? That in and of itself is not a bad thing is it?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 2:34 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 2:58 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 24 of 31 (844197)
11-26-2018 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by caffeine
11-26-2018 2:47 PM


Celebrity Apprentice
caffeine to ringo writes:
I do find the American right nowadays has a weird obsession with celebrities. On the lunatic fringe, you see it in the way Hollywood and its celebrities are always an integral part of the conspiracy; but even more normal iterations seem to hold a lot of ire for the Hollywood elite.
Often I have heard the complaint that celebrities should just shut up and make music/films/TV whatever. I can entirely understand that you might have no interest in the political opinions of a celebrity. But if you hear them so much that it's bothering, then obviously you're consuming a lot of media that talks about celebrities' opinions. Why not simply stop doing so?
It all gets back to Andy Warhol.
quote:
In the future everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes.
These days, lots of us want to be seen by the public at large and judged favorably by them. Teens make YouTube videos and post selfies.
The fact that we (the public) consume this media only leads weight to the favorable vote that celebrities...conscious or not...reality TV star or not...seek.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by caffeine, posted 11-26-2018 2:47 PM caffeine has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 25 of 31 (844222)
11-26-2018 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Straggler
11-24-2018 2:48 PM


Spirit Of Christmas: Michelle Obama vs Melania Trump
Watch this video of Melania decorating the Whie House. Note the images being emphasized---they are things rather than people. One could argue that the Obamas were more about people and the Trumps are more about things.
Trump Decor
Michelle Obama 2016 Decor
Note the emphasis.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Straggler, posted 11-24-2018 2:48 PM Straggler has not replied

  
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