A Way to Think About Free Will and God: Open Theism

Quite obviously human writing and opinion/belief on what God could would or should do. They are making it up.

I found a better anwer than my quick response. This from Quora:
Q:How do you explain, in today's ethics, Deuteronomy 13?
A:I'm assuming you are really seeking an answer and not just bringing this forward in an attempt to embarrass people who believe in scripture. I suspect the latter, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt with my answer.

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First and most important is to know the context of where this message is delivered. If you haven't read the bible much and if you aren't very familiar with the stories of the Old Testament then this could look like disturbing directives. A lot of times people who seek to discredit the bible will bring texts like this out. The suggestion is usually an attempt to cast these directions in the light of today's society in which really they were never meant for.

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Second, some background is in order. Ideally I recommend you go read your bible yourself. Go read from the beginning of Deuteronomy and you'll get what this is all about. For the sake of the readers here and those actually wanting to find the truth I will give a summary.

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It's pretty much universally accepted that Deuteronomy was written by Moses around 3,500 years ago. The text in question is part of the narrative of the, "Law of Moses." This is not to be confused with the Decalogue (Ten Commandments).

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The Law of Moses consisted of two basic sets of laws, the civil laws and the ritualistic laws. The ritualistic laws referred to all regarding the conduct of the sacrificial system and the conduct of the Levite priests. The civil law is what Deuteronomy 13 is part of. This was written on a scroll by the hand of Moses and kept on the side of the arc of the covenant. (Deuteronomy 31:24-26) All of the Law of Moses was done away with as a result of Jesus death on the cross. Colossians 2:14. Part of the reason these laws were necessary was because Israel demonstrated they were not able to keep the Ten Commandments. They had broken them before Moses had even descended he mountain; you know the story. So God gave them these laws that spelled out everything for them in detail. Reference back to Deuteronomy 31:26 the Law of Moses was called a 'witness against them', because they were idolatrous sinners who could not keep the simple Ten Commandments. Moses knew that after his death Israel would go corrupt and turn to evil, they needed a harsh and detailed law of conduct. (Deuteronomy 31:29)

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I should also point out a detail here. Deuteronomy 13:9 does not suggest that you should be killing people on your own, but rather that you, as the witness of the crime, must take an active part in meeting out the punishment. This was done publicly after much deliberation. The purpose of this was to curtail the false accusations based on private grudges and the like. A person would hesitate to lead out in the execution of a person whom he knew to be innocent. So if you accused someone you had to throw the first stone.

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So it's important to note that these laws were for a different age and a different people under vastly different circumstances. The nation of Israel, at this time, was made up the descendants of people who had lived in captivity for several generations. The nation that held them captive and the surrounding nations worshipped idols. Most of this idolatry involved things like orgies and human sacrifices, often young children and babies were the offerings. These were not like the religions we have today; these were evil pagan idol worshippers that conducted many atrocities that today would make our stomachs turn. If Israel turned to idolatry they would fall into ruin, that's why the strict laws concerning it. If it was tolerated it would quickly destroy the nation. In the United States there is a death sentence for even so much as planning an attack on the president, other countries have similar laws. Israel was a nation governed by God, to actively seek to bring idolatry into the nation was an attack on the government of Israel and the very fibre of the nation. In other words idolatry was high treason against the nation of Israel. They understood it and should they disagree were free to leave.

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Today it's hard to understand because we don't have the hard-core pagans that existed back then and we don't generally view any religion as a threat to our nation. I guarantee you If we did we would be quick to put in many laws outlawing them and even instituting a death penalty as needed. It's not uncommon to institute harsh punishment, even the death penalty, on matters of national security.See...when I seek answers, I don't simply accept the first thing that pops into my head. I search for different perspectives. This answer seemed logical to me.
Let's use ICANTs 5 rules and add your 6th rule.1. Who is speaking/writing? --- Consensus says Moses.
2. To whom or about whom is he speaking/writing?---Looks like the speaker was addressing the Jewish people of that time.
3. What subject is he speaking/writing about? ---Outside threats to the nation.
4. When or about what time is he speaking/writing? -- around 3500 years ago.
5. What is the occasion for speaking or writing? -- Unsure.6.6. WHY is the person telling me this and why now?---__________________________________ Have an answer?

Good question. ringo would argue that God is fiction thus nothing could be reported. But we really don't have the mindset of the author, do we? We can't really say what would be written.

The writing is in context of the speaker and times he was speaking and people he was speaking to. In addition, the text clearly does not suggest that God Himself is speaking.Today, the law is written on our hearts. We dont hear God speaking...at least most of us don't. What we feel is an inner unction. Feel free to label it how you like.Scripture may or may not corroborate our impression.I believe that God speaks to me through my conscience, through others, and through scripture. I dont limit His ability to impress me.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

I believe that the Torah was inspired.

Good question. In my replies, I often play the role of devils advocate. I do this so often that sometimes I have to pause and evaluate what I actually believe. Tangle is off on this same kick that you are where you hold our feet to the fire and read every part of the words in the Bible literally as if all of them applied for us today. All of the mail is for us, yet not all of it is specifically addressed to us.Of course if you perceive God as simply a character in the book, it makes sense to read the whole book and note what He says to the people. But if you believe that God is living today, you will more easily see that this was an event that happened 3500 or more years ago and that the God of the book at that moment in time may well have something different to say to us now. Critics claim I pick and choose what is palatable, and I plead guilty. However, I believe that Moreover, my perception and belief is that God does not only speak through the words in a book concerning His admonitions to people thousands of years ago. Yes, He "does not change" but surely He has more to say than what the book claims He said. Of course, if you believe that God is fiction, what need is there to listen to what He said in the book any more than what you claim I make palatable?

You are judging God based on what He allegedly said 3500 years ago. Those people then were as likely as we are now to continue waging war against other nations no matter what their beliefs were. So while I dont strictly believe that the character was made up, I do believe that the ones who wrote down the story would have a different view of that God then they would had they met Jesus Christ.Look at people now. They judge God based only on what is written of Him. They don't seem to be able to imagine that God exists now...this moment...and that they can commune. So they trash the character in the book instead.We have no idea today what those people back then thought about life, how they thought about God, and what their habits daily were.

For one thing it would impress upon them that their God was real. Whether this knowledge ultimately humbled them or made them arrogant and entitled can be found by studying the stories. They learned that survival was a brutal business and that it was either sink or swim for them. Modern Israelis learned the same lesson in the six-day war. Getting that out of the way... Last time I asked Him, He said something to the effect of "I AM that I AM." I figured that I would let the question drop at that point. Perhaps He is waiting for you to die so that He can teach you what you did and could have done and given you some pointers before your next assignment. (Hint: The Mormons were right...you will be assigned a new planet that you will get to visit. They will kill you, but God will bring you back. Your only assignment is to deliver a message.) Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Edited by Phat, : rewrite

Stam seems to make that case, yes. You may well argue that there is no proof that people have ever been "lost". But that's another argument. Thing That Differ Browse it...he has some scriptural arguments....

Think about it. Should He have to?

That's too Deistic for me.

As I ponder this question....these replies come to mind:

Why would God have a need to justify His existence to anyone?

I strongly disagree with jars portrayal of a God learning on the job. This would, however, only make sense should open theism be in any way true. God would hypothetically have to learn what we humans freely decided. I don't believe that, however. Now that I think about it, open theism has some flaws.

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A Deistic god is no different than a living universe, for all practical purposes.

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I will admit that my belief comforts me. An interactive God seems the right belief...for me. That is, unless, he was against me for my freewill decisions.

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Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

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You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

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Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile

Insistence on Evidence could be your eventual downfall. Then again, I may have a wrong view of God, myself. Some telemarketer just now called while i was typing this...said he was from Microsoft Service center and that my computer had a virus that needed removing...offered to "fix it" I hung up on him. My question is why you feel as if we must grow up and fix everything ourselves... but If God called and offered to fix me, I may just hang up on him...particularly if he had a telemarketer's voice.

Now that I think about jars position more, I remember that he asserts that all portrayals of how humans think about God are merely that---human portrayals. He believes in GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen through the Nicene Creed, but he emphasizes Jesus as human while on earth. Thus, Jesus could and did sin, according to jar. This removes any possibility of actually knowing God through belief...which would lead to proof. Of course, our secular crowd would agree...if they even believed that GOD did exist. Personally, based on my past experience, I believe that Jesus is Gods human character and is alive eternally and that at one time I met Him. That being said, I find myself at an impasse...stuck.I need to do a fast anyway, as it is 1 month before my eye operation and I need to reclaim my low carb health. Stay tuned as I develop my beliefs regarding these matters. The fast will last at least 24 hours.

Are any of us more favored than any others? I do know that many of us behave better than others...whether they are "saved" or not. Stile certainly behaves better than many Christians here at this forum.