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Author | Topic: A Way to Think About Free Will and God: Open Theism | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 227 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No it says He walked through walls. He had a changed body. I guess the mental task of inference is too hard for you? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 14943 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
So it became apparent that what I really wanted---the point that I really wanted to get across here at EvC, was that I was not impressed with attempting to teach that God is fiction or that the God of the Bible was an unlikeable character whom nobody best believe in anyway. Trying to fight for the belief to be evidentially true seemed to be (seems to be) impossible. You might suggest that my response at this moment is an attempt to *double down* and I suppose in a way it is----largely because I not only have a lot of my own emotional development tied into the belief...but because I feel that the message that I see being written of here at EvC is attempting to lead people into scientific truth and dismissing all belief as needless superstition. Does that make any sense? The point that I now am trying to argue is that people should have belief and that it helps rather than harms them. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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ringo Member Posts: 18862 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.1 |
No it doesn't. quote: It may be impressive that He knew where the disciples were but it doesn't say anything about Him walking through walls.
As I have explained to GDR, the "inference" of a changed body makes the whole death and resurrection thing irrelevant. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 227 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes you have a really terrible time with inference, and with the implications of Jesus' changed body. Sometimes I think you just spend all your time trying to come up with the most nonsensical objections possible to everything anyone says.
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ringo Member Posts: 18862 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.1
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All I'm doing is pointing out that your inferences don't make any sense.
And yet you do nothing to refute the implications. If it wasn't the same body, there was no resurrection and the wounds were fakes. It has to be the same body or the whole story is irrelevant.
You flatter me. There aren't enough hours in the day to point out everything you're wrong about. I only pick the most egregious examples. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 14943 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Actually it depends which translation you use.
The inference is that Jesus somehow got in the room despite the locked doors. Do you see any other meaning? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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ringo Member Posts: 18862 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.1
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It doesn't seem likely to me that the disciples would have locked themselves inside a room. Their enemies could have just waited for them to come out. The context seems to be more like "behind closed doors" - i.e. private - i.e. nobody knew exactly where they were or what they were doing. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 227 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What seems likely to you is not the point, what the words say is the point, and all this stupid gameplaying being done here is a big waste of time. Jesus did not come in by the door. The door was locked against the Jews they thought might break in. This kind of discussion is a huge waste of time. Blech.
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Percy Member Posts: 19953 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
I'm not trying to talk anyone out of their religious beliefs. I'm trying to talk them out of any silly notions that there's evidence for their religious beliefs. Every religion has tons of proponents who think they have evidence. It's just a very common quality of people who have deeply held religious beliefs, regardless whether they're Christian or Islamic or Buddhist or whatever. You (and you've got tons of company across all faiths) have got your knickers all tied in knots wondering endlessly about things that have no evidence. It's faith. Look it up. Watch season 2 episode 3 of Young Sheldon some time.
--Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 14943 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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I was curious, so I watched the episode on CBS all access. A cute and refreshing show...I think I like Young Sheldon better than Big Bang Sheldon.
![]() Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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Phat Member Posts: 14943 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
So Jesus just suddenly arrived fashionably late? The only reason you reject the walked through walls argument is because you limit the stories to what is evidenced in reality. The whole point of some of the stories is to emphasize Jesus heightened abilities.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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ringo Member Posts: 18862 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.1 |
That's right - and the words don't say anything about walking through walls. They just say that Jesus appeared unexpectedly - unexpectedly because the disciples thought He was dead. By dwelling on insignificant details like how He got into the room, you miss the point of the story: He was alive. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member Posts: 18862 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.1
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I reject the walking through walls argument because it isn't what the story says and it doesn't make sense.
Not this one. The point of this story is that Jesus was unexpectedly alive. The story of "doubting Thomas" is actually one of the most abused stories in the New Testament. Take the time to read John 20. 1. Jesus appeared to the disciples when Thomas wasn't there; He voluntarily showed them His wounds. (verse 19-20)What you should notice is that despite your hatred of evidence, Jesus offered evidence. And He offered exactly the same evidence to Thomas that He had offered to the other disciples. It was the disciples that Thomas doubted. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Stile Member Posts: 4033 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Yes. The same sort of "issues" that cause problems with almost all science fiction novels. This seems to be a similar "consistency issue" that surrounds the story of the resurrection. Reality doesn't have to worry about consistency issues.
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Phat Member Posts: 14943 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
This topic is a continuation of our philosophical discussions on the rationality (or irrationality) of Biblical Mythos. It is a direct quote from Open Theist Dr.Gregory Boyd in his ReNew Blog where he has a lengthy post which I will quote large portions of here to get this topic off of the ground.
quote: You can read this essay in full here: I invite science based arguments, philosophical arguments, and faith based arguments. I recommend watching the You Tube clip as well. That is Dr.Boyd. Whats funny is that the right Wing Christians label Dr.Boyd as a basic heretic, but I applaud some of his ideas. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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