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Author Topic:   Peanut Gallery Comments on Great Debate
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 10 of 92 (845331)
12-14-2018 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Thugpreacha
12-13-2018 2:19 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
Phat writes:

I am talking with ICANT, who actually is a Baptist Pastor, by the way..in the context of discussing my religious beliefs. I am not coming at him as an unbiased journalist who is questioning his beliefs.


An image that I've used before: A parakeet fighting with his own image in the mirror.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-13-2018 2:19 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 11:48 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 13 of 92 (845335)
12-14-2018 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Thugpreacha
12-14-2018 11:48 AM


Re: Tangles Comment
Phat writes:

... I would prefer not to allign myself with the critical thinking atheist/agnostic/humanist crowd who thinks the way you do.


You don't have to be an atheist/agnostic to be a critical thinker or a humanist.

Phat writes:

Talk about parakeets! You guys all get along in the cage!


On the contrary, the people on my "side" give me a much rougher ride when they disagree with me.

Phat writes:

Apart from that, I do not believe that the Bible is word for word literal.


You cherry-pick and sanitize, with no rationale except what is palatable.

Phat writes:

So what think ye about Genesis 1 and John 1:1-2?


Genesis 1 is demonstrably wrong about how it happened, so how can you trust its claims about who did it?

John 1:1-2 is an obvious metaphor.

Phat writes:

Are they as important or inspired as your precious Matthew 25:31?


We don't need "inspiration" to behave properly. The apostle Paul said so. Obviously, proper behaviour is more important than misinformation and/or metaphoric mumbo-jumbo.

Phat writes:

And lets keep this discussion limited to what ICANT and I speak about in our discussion.


I'm not going to read ICANT's rubbish if I'm not allowed to respond directly. If you don't want me to respond in this thread, don't make yourself a target.

Phat writes:

ICANT is a Baptist Pastor. I am specifically seeking a conversation with a Pastor.

Not a Contrarian from Saskatchewan.


You don't have to seek me. If you're here, you're a target.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 11:48 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 12:08 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 15 of 92 (845338)
12-14-2018 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Thugpreacha
12-14-2018 12:08 PM


Re: Ringo Targets All Of Us
Phat writes:

Explain again why you don't claim to be an atheist yet state that God is fiction.


Well, specifically YOUR God is fiction. Even you don't believe all of the stories about Him. The only difference between us is that I don't believe the cherry-flavoured ones either.

I don't know much about most other gods, so it's possible that one or more of them might be real.

Phat writes:

Genesis 1 does not claim anything about how it happened...


Of course it does. It claims there were plants before the sun was created, for example.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 12:08 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 12:19 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 17 of 92 (845340)
12-14-2018 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Thugpreacha
12-14-2018 12:19 PM


Re: Ringo Targets All Of Us
Phat writes:

To be more precise, I think we are talking Genesis 1:1...but I'll ask ICANT.


I don't separate Genesis 1:1 from the rest of the chapter any more than I separate, "Once upon a time there were three bears," from the rest of that story.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 12:19 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 12:27 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 19 of 92 (845343)
12-14-2018 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Thugpreacha
12-14-2018 12:27 PM


Re: Ringo Targets All Of Us
Phat writes:

I do have issues/questions with the rest of the book.


Yes, that's where you go wrong. If you're going to pick and choose the parts you like, you might as well make up the whole thing from scratch.

Phat writes:

If this gets me booted out of the club, I suppose im as lost as the rest of you.


It's easy to get lost if you pick and choose the parts of the map that you like.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 12:27 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 12:45 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 22 of 92 (845347)
12-14-2018 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Thugpreacha
12-14-2018 12:45 PM


Re: Ringo Targets All Of Us
Phat writes:

What does a skeptic like you believe? Is there a Creator of all seen and unseen. Yes or No.


There's no reason to think there is.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 12:45 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 1:01 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 24 of 92 (845350)
12-14-2018 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Thugpreacha
12-14-2018 1:01 PM


Re: Ringo Targets All Of Us
Phat writes:

I didnt ask for a reason.


Then it isn't a reasonable question.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2018 1:01 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 33 of 92 (845395)
12-15-2018 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by ICANT
12-14-2018 2:00 PM


Re: Birds Of A Feather
ICANT writes:

Since Matthew 25:31 suites what ringo wants to believe there is no scripture more important than that particular one.


The only reason I ever mention Matthew 25 is because so many so-called "believers" ignore it or twist it.

ICANT writes:

God made a promise to the nations that helped the descendants of Abraham. That promise will be fulfilled in the following verses of Matthew 25:31-46 when the nations that have helped the descendants of Abraham will be allowed to go into the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth.


That isn't what it says though. It says "all nations".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by ICANT, posted 12-14-2018 2:00 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 3:41 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 42 of 92 (845481)
12-16-2018 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by ICANT
12-15-2018 3:41 PM


Re: Birds Of A Feather
ICANT writes:

ringo writes:

The only reason I ever mention Matthew 25 is because so many so-called "believers" ignore it or twist it.


I just read it as it is written.

No you don't. You calimed in Message 33 that, "That promise will be fulfilled in the following verses of Matthew 25:31-46 when the nations that have helped the descendants of Abraham will be allowed to go into the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth."

That's false. It doesn't say anything about, "the nations that have helped the descendants of Abraham." It says, "all nations."

ICANT writes:

But only the sheep nations are allowed to go into the kingdom of the 1000 year reign of Christ.


There are no "sheep nations" or "goat nations". People are judged individually.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 3:41 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by ICANT, posted 12-16-2018 4:49 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 43 of 92 (845483)
12-16-2018 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Thugpreacha
12-15-2018 4:12 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
Phat writes:

Of course ringo claims that the message is important while the messenger isn't, but John 3:18 seems to challenge that claim.


Nope.
quote:
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
We've been through this many times before. What does it mean to believe? If you throw the message away, how can you claim to "believe in" the messenger?

Phat writes:

Which brings up the question: If one does all of the right things that Jesus commanded without believing that Jesus existed, where do they then stand?


Jesus answered that question explicitly (Matthew 25).

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-15-2018 4:12 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-16-2018 2:33 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 45 of 92 (845511)
12-16-2018 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Thugpreacha
12-16-2018 2:33 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
Phat writes:

Not bad preaching for a guy who doesn't believe in the messenger!


It's like you didn't read my post at all. Believing in the message is the only way to "believe in the messenger".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-16-2018 2:33 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(3)
Message 47 of 92 (845560)
12-17-2018 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by ICANT
12-16-2018 4:49 PM


Re: Birds Of A Feather
ICANT writes:

The nations are judged and separated. Some nations will be sheep nations and some will be goat nations.


Since people are judge individually, "all nations" refers to the individual people of all nations. It doesn't make any sense to condemn a whole nation - the good along with the bad - and exonerate another whole nation - the bad along with the good. If that were so, there would be no individual salvation. You'd be saved or condemned along with your nation, regardless of your own belief or behaviour.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by ICANT, posted 12-16-2018 4:49 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by AZPaul3, posted 12-17-2018 2:35 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 51 by ICANT, posted 12-17-2018 8:38 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 53 of 92 (845638)
12-18-2018 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by ICANT
12-17-2018 8:38 PM


Re: Birds Of A Feather
ICANT writes:

But not all individuals will be judged at the same judgment.


Matthew 25 says "all nations". That means all people who are living at that time. It can not be divided by arbitrary "countries" as you claim and still be a judgement of individuals.

ICANT writes:

The rapture will occur.


Unscriptural - but still irrelevant. The people who are there will be judged individually, not by the artificial borders that they happen to live inside.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by ICANT, posted 12-17-2018 8:38 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by ICANT, posted 12-18-2018 1:18 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 59 of 92 (845665)
12-18-2018 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by ICANT
12-18-2018 1:18 PM


Re: Birds Of A Feather
ICANT writes:

...everyone will not be in Jerusalem in order to be divided into sheep nations and goat nations.


Matthew didn't say anything about Jerusalem and neither did I.

ICANT writes:

Jesus entered the world through the linage of David so He is talking about the descendants of Abraham.


His physical lineage is not relative. Jesus considered all men an women as brothers and sisters. Note the story of the Good Samaritan.

ICANT writes:

You will notice there is no individual mentioned that is your assertion which is not supported by the text.


On the contrary, it is ONLY individuals that are mentioned. Countries don't feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit prisons, etc. (In fact, right-wing Christians tend to assert that those things should ONLY be done by individuals and NOT by governments.)

ICANT writes:

The scripture says those alive will be caught up in the air to meet the Lord in the air.


quote:
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Thessalonians 4:16-17 talks about the second coming of Jesus. It is not a separate event. And it says nothing about the dead rising - so no, it doesn't agree with your definition of the "rapture".

ICANT writes:

ringo disagrees, so what? Rant on but you nor I have any right to change what the word says.


You're the one who is changing what the word says, as I have shown.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by ICANT, posted 12-18-2018 1:18 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by ICANT, posted 12-19-2018 12:29 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17286
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 64 of 92 (845735)
12-19-2018 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ICANT
12-19-2018 12:29 AM


Re: Birds Of A Feather
ICANT writes:

When Jesus comes back to earth where do you think He is going to return too?


Earth. Why would He be limited to one locale?

ICANT writes:

Why would Matthew mention Jerusalem?


Indeed. Why would he? Which is why it makes no sense to assume Jerusalem.

ICANT writes:

For that matter why would you? Especially when you seem to know so little of what the Bible actually says.


You're funny. I have quoted what the Bible says and I have pointed out where you have twisted it.

ICANT writes:

I am a joint heir with Jesus that makes Him my big brother.


Sez you. Since Jesus was the Son of man, He was by definition the brother of all other sons of man.

ICANT writes:

If a person has not accepted the offer of a free full pardon offered by God through the death on the cross being born into the family of God they are not Jesus brother.


But of course that is not how brotherhood works. Brothers are brothers by birth. They can also be nominal brothers, for all intents and purposes the same as biological brothers. But what you can not do is exclude biological brothers.

ICANT writes:

The US spends between 700 and 800 billion per year on poverty in the US.

The US spends 50 billion per year around the world.

Sure seems to me our country is trying to feed and clothe a lot of people.


You missed the word "prisons". How many people does the US visit and comfort in prison?

ICANT writes:

The part of the quote I changed to green says this meeting takes place in the air. Jesus does not touch the earth so it is not the second coming. When His feet touch the Mount of Olives Zec. 14:4, that is the second coming.


It doesn't say that Jesus doesn't touch the earth. It just says that the living meet Him in the air.

ICANT writes:

The large capital white text says the dead in Christ shall rise first.


Touché.

ICANT writes:

This will take place a maximum of 7 and a minimum of 3 1/2 years before Jesus will set His feet on the Mount of Olives.


That part is entirely made up, 100% fiction, without a germ of truth to it.

ICANT writes:

But what you are doing is not even close to debating. It is not even close to arguing a point. You do not seem capable of reading and understanding what you read and being able to discuss it.


If you're such a master debater, you should understand that the debater (you) doesn't get to decide who's winning.

ICANT writes:

I do not have time to be wasting trying to discuss something with someone who is being dishonest and not interested in the truth.


YOU'RE dishonest, as many people besides me have pointed out. I DO have time to point out your dishonesty and your abuse of the scriptures and I will continue to do so.

ICANT writes:

So if your next post is as daff at the one I am responding too you will not have to worry about me answering another of your posts.


I couldn't care less if you ever answer one of my posts but you can count on me answering your nonsense. You can run but you can't hide.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ICANT, posted 12-19-2018 12:29 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
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