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Author Topic:   Peanut Gallery Comments on Great Debate
GDR
Member
Posts: 5410
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 34 of 214 (845398)
12-15-2018 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by ICANT
12-14-2018 2:35 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
ICANT writes:

Tangle you have come short of the glory of God. Because you are lost and doomed for a devils hell if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your savior.

This view of my Christian faith drives me crazy. It isn't Biblical at all. You have returned to salvation by works by turning belief in a specific doctrine into a work. It is what Jesus spoke against when He spoke against the Pharisees.

The Bible is clear that it is all about the heart. Yes, as Christians we turn to God to change our hearts but we have to be genuinely open to allowing that to happen. Even then it is about vocation in that we have been called to reflect God's love into the world, not about personal salvation

We are also told not to judge that we be not judged. What our place will be in the new creation is God's business and not mine or yours. What is important is not our doctrine but about having hearts that image the nature of our loving, forgiving and just God whose Word or wisdom was embodied in Jesus, regardless of our religious beliefs. That is Biblical. Read my signature from Micah, read Matthew 25 and actually open your heart to the whole Biblical narrative.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by ICANT, posted 12-14-2018 2:35 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 3:32 PM GDR has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5410
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


(1)
Message 38 of 214 (845450)
12-15-2018 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by ICANT
12-15-2018 3:32 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
Hi ICANT You quote this verse.
quote:
ohn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Then you say this:
ICANT writes:

Do you disagree with John.
He says you are condemned already because you have not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
That is the only verse in the Bible that tells why a person will spend eternity in the lake of fire.


When I ask you if you believe in Donald Trump or not what do you think I’m asking you? Am I asking you if you think He exists? Do you think I’m asking you if he is the president? I think you would agree that I’m asking you if you believe what he stands for. Assuming you agree with the last question I’ll ask you this. Donald Trump has a philosophy of life. Do you think it is possible to believe in that philosophy without knowing Trump? In the same way you can believe in Jesus without knowing Him by name as you believe in His philosophy of love.
Read the verses which follow the verse in John 3 you quote.
quote:
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
It isn’t talking here about giving intellectual ascent to any particular doctrine. The question is do you love the light or the darkness. Do you love the message of sacrificial love or the message of self love.
GDR writes:

The Bible is clear that it is all about the heart.

ICANT writes:

Where?

All through the NT, and even mostly in the OT. You might consider this quote from Matthew 15.
quote:
These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
It is clear that it is our hearts that God wants. It isn’t about having the right doctrine.
There is this in Romans 2.
quote:
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.
The requirements of the law is the requirement that we love our neighbour as ourselves. As Paul writes, “God knows the secrets of our hearts”.
Phat used another good quote from Romans
quote:
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Read Matthew 25. The sheep are the ones who visited those in prison, fed the hungry etc without having any idea they were doing it for Jesus. Their hearts were where God wanted them to be without reference to any particular doctrine.
Look at the story of the Good Samaritan. The Samaritans were considered to be outcasts by the Jews yet here was Jesus saying that it wasn’t the Jewish religious big shots who were the righteous ones but the outcast Samaritan. I suggest that if Jesus was giving this parable today it would be the story of the good Muslim.
ICANT writes:

All the heart does is pump blood through the cardiovascular system.
It has no way of making decisions.
How do you change your heart? Have a transplant.
Your heart can not image anything. All it can do is pump blood through your blood vessels.


I guess I have to believe that you are actually serious posting that. Frankly, and I really do hate to be this critical, but as a pastor you should be really embarrassed. Try putting heart or hearts into any on-line commentary.

You quoted this:

quote:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And then said this:
ICANT writes:

Jesus says there is one way to God. You are saying there are many ways to God. If you don't mind I will trust Jesus. Even if you do mind I will trust Jesus.


Jesus tells us that His way is the way to God, that He has embodied God’s truth and the way that our lives should be lived. His way is the way of love which is God’s truth and which brings life. I also trust Jesus but not an inerrant Bible that has led you down paths that are completely contrary to what Jesus calls us to.
quote:
Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
ICANT writes:

That does not say anything about receiving eternal life for doing those things.

No, it doesn’t. It tells us what God wants of us. Your twisted form of Christianity is all about who gets eternal life and who doesn’t. It turns Christianity into something that is intended to be other focused into something that is self focused. Your central point is to make sure that you are on the right side of the equation after you die. Christianity is about vocation, and personal salvation is a byproduct and up to God, not you and me. That vocation is to reflect God’s love into the world.
ICANT writes:

Jesus gave us only 2 commandments. We should obey them.

Couldn’t agree more. If you notice there isn’t a third that you have to give intellectual ascent to, (as in believe in), any particular doctrine
ICANT writes:

You do not have anything in your signature about Matthew 25 and you are not using what you do have from Micah. You have to click the include signature for it to be at the bottom of your post.

Ya, I was in a rush and forgot it.
ICANT writes:

I will assume in Matthew 25 you are referring to the judgment of the nations verse 32. If you are in this judgment you better hope America is one of the sheep nations but I don't find America listed anywhere in the New Testament or in the prophecies.

I wasn’t actually referring to that but do you really think this is about individual nations? It is only saying that everybody from every nation will be before Him. Once again, the sheep will be the ones who from having a loving heart visited the prisoners, fed the hungry, gave shelter to the homeless etc without any though of reward including a desire for eternal life. They had no idea that they were doing this for Jesus. They did it because they had the commandments to love written on their hearts. It was doing those things that brought them joy. The goats were about themselves and not having hearts that loved others.
If we just get about our assigned task as humans of serving and loving God’s good creation and spend less time worryinmg about who is in and who is out God would be much better served.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 3:32 PM ICANT has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by AZPaul3, posted 12-15-2018 10:43 PM GDR has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5410
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


(1)
Message 40 of 214 (845455)
12-16-2018 2:53 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by AZPaul3
12-15-2018 10:43 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
AZPaul3 writes:

If I wasn't such a heathen I might convert.

...maybe you just did Merry Christmas

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by AZPaul3, posted 12-15-2018 10:43 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by AZPaul3, posted 12-16-2018 8:37 AM GDR has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5410
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 83 of 214 (845959)
12-23-2018 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by ICANT
12-19-2018 1:50 AM


Re: The Good Samaritan Remix
ICANT writes:

Let me address this a little and if you want to discuss it more bring it up in the debate.

There is very little difference between me and Tangle.

We are both sinners.

But there is a difference. Tangle is a lost sinner and I am a saved sinner.

I did not get a glorified body that did not commit sin when I was born again only my spirit was born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption

Neither of us was condemned because we sinned. Mankind was condemned because the man formed from the dust of the ground disobeyed God and ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Tangle is still condemned because he does not believe in God and therefore has never trusted God to save him from the bondage he was sold into.

I on the other hand believe in God and have trusted Him to save me and give me eternal life. So I received a full pardon and am justified before God. But I am still a sinner. That is a battle I have to fight on a daily basis. I just have to try to get better every day.

This again is the problem with your misguided brand of Christianity. The focus is on you and your personal salvation. You shrink God down into a deity that is saying the you have to give intellectual ascent to Him, say the right prayers and get your theology straight and I'll reward you with eternal life.

Christ's message is to love God by understanding the infinite love He has for all of His created creatures and then reflect that love into the world by loving our neighbours, regardless of race or religion. We are all God's creatures you, me and Tangle. Do that and let God worry about the outcome for our next life.

I spent some time on preparing a response with my posting Message 38 in this thread which you seem to have avoided replying to.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by ICANT, posted 12-19-2018 1:50 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5410
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 84 of 214 (845987)
12-24-2018 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by ringo
12-23-2018 2:06 PM


Re: Oh What A Tangled Web We Weave
ringo writes:

I, for one, have not made up my mind whether ICANT is a smart crook or an honest fool.

I'd just like to interject here for a minute. Not all of the fundamentalists of ICANT's ilk are from the US. I have encountered them in Canada in many situations and have been in church with them, so I have some experience.

I wouldn't call him either a crook or a fool. I imagine he is like most pastors eking out a living, and he is responding to a form of Christianity which is largely accepted in a church culture that he has been exposed to. Once in that culture it feeds on itself.

My experience has been, that even though IMHO they have their theology badly mixed up they are still people who genuinely believe in prayerfully serve a loving God. My experience is that they fulfill the desires of God as given in my signature quote from Micah 6:8. Although fundamentalists, like everyone else, go off the moral rails, I doubt that they are any more prone to that than anyone else.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by ringo, posted 12-23-2018 2:06 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2018 6:03 PM GDR has responded
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 12-27-2018 12:30 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5410
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


(1)
Message 86 of 214 (845990)
12-24-2018 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Tangle
12-24-2018 6:03 PM


Re: Oh What A Tangled Web We Weave
Tangle writes:

He's both. He's fooling himself and trying to fool others.

Maybe, but I believe that he is convinced of what he teaches and that he believes he is serving his community.
Tangle writes:

They're 16th century throwbacks. They're our unreformed ancestors. We should put ICANT into a museum so we don't take for granted the progress we've made.

Actually his brand of fundamentalism is newer that that. Also I 'd add that progress isn't all it's cracked up to be. It has given us modern medicine. and nuclear weapons.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2018 6:03 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2018 6:29 PM GDR has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5410
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 88 of 214 (845992)
12-24-2018 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Tangle
12-24-2018 6:29 PM


Re: Oh What A Tangled Web We Weave
Tangle writes:

I doubt there's anybody but a fool would swop their lives now for a life in the 16th century. It was hard, dirty and short.

Certainly true in our cultures.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2018 6:29 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
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