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Author Topic:   Being offended.
GDR
Member
Posts: 4960
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 52 of 381 (845594)
12-17-2018 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Faith
12-17-2018 2:59 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
Faith writes:


Trump wants to build a wall on our southern border.

As an outsider in this US debate I just want to add this.

The Christian message is that we are called to love our neighbours whoever and wherever they may be. (That is not the same as approving their actions.) The message is that we are all one tribe or nation.

Building walls to wall off our neighbours is the opposite of what Jesus taught. Instead of walling them off we should be feeding the hungry, providing shelter for the homeless etc. Jesus calls us to respond with love and not walls. It isn't easy at all, but it was how Jesus said that He and His fellow Jews were to respond to the brutal domination of the Romans. He called for them to love their enemy, turn the other cheek and go the extra mile. It wasn't easy for Him either.

I suggest that supporting the idea of the wall comes from a unhappy blend of religion, politics and nationalism.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 2:59 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 3:42 PM GDR has responded
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 12-18-2018 6:56 PM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 99 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:27 PM GDR has responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4960
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 56 of 381 (845601)
12-17-2018 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
12-17-2018 3:42 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
Faith writes:

That is an absolutely insane misinterpretation of Jesus' teaching. Insane and evil. What, you want six billion people to come here because we have a prosperous nation and they don't? That's insane and a violation of loving the citizens who are already here. May the billions all come camp on your doorstep. If you want to help those billions get out of your cushy Canada and go help them where they live. Their problems start with corrupt governments. So they want to come here and corrupt ours too and you think that's fine? Your crazy misreading of the Bible has crazy repercussions in the real world. There are 77 countries in the world that have border walls, 62 of them built since 1990. This is a real problem in the world these days and attitudes like yours are making it worse. You and everybody who thinks like you should leave the hard-won prosperity of the West and spend your lives helping the billions. Instead you want to destroy it. You're insane. Crazy. Hating your neighbor too.

This sure sounds like the goats in Matthew 25. As far as my cushy existence in the frozen north, (I now enjoy a cushy existence on the rarely below freezing Pacifric coast) I have been part of welcoming others to Canada. I have been involved with numerous refugee projects over the years including 4 in the last couple of years all through a church that actually does try to follow Christ's teachings.

I realize that there is no nation on Earth that has done more ,or is quicker to respond, to various tragedies around the world than the US. However, sometimes we are also called to do things that are uncomfortable, as in welcoming others that look and dress differently than we do.

If they come from corrupt nations, (fortunately there is no corruption in your or in my government), then we use the weapon as shown to us by Jesus. It is simple. We are called to love them. Love changes hearts.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 3:42 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 4:06 PM GDR has responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4960
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 57 of 381 (845602)
12-17-2018 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
12-17-2018 3:59 PM


Faith writes:

And this discussion does not belong on this thread anyway. Take it to the Right News thread.

This is the Coffee House and you brought it up.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 3:59 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 4:12 PM GDR has not yet responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4960
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 61 of 381 (845606)
12-17-2018 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Faith
12-17-2018 4:06 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
Faith writes:

Yes I gathered you've been stupidly supporting possible terrorists. Jesus does not teach us to expose our neighbors to terrorists. You are a complete idiot and you are not a follower of Jesus Christ who would never countenance such a wacked out idea of His love as yours. So are you like those crazy "Christians" who turned a church into a mosque out of a misguided idea of Jesus" love? It's really hatred. It's evil.
And yes the US has done a great deal for the suffering of the world. So far we've done it fairly sanely in order to preserve the means that make such help possible. Your methods would destroy those means. You are a blithering idiot GDR and you are NOT a follower of Jesus Christ. As for government corruptions it's been getting bad because of the Left and your crazy misreading of Jesus is a Leftist style insanity that will only add to the corruptions. I consider you an opponent of everything good in this world, Jesus' love above all.

And this is the problem with Biblical liiteralsim. You can completely ignore what Jesus taught and lived, because you can find a verse somewhere in the Bible to support anything that you want it to. It can be used to support anything from genocide to the prosperity gospel to total pacifism.

You say that "I consider you an opponent of everything good in this world, Jesus' love above all." I just wonder if you can find a phrase in your post that sounds at all like the love of Jesus.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 4:06 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 7:02 PM GDR has responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4960
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 64 of 381 (845614)
12-17-2018 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Faith
12-17-2018 7:02 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
Faith writes:

Yes, all of it.

Funny idea of love.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 7:02 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by herebedragons, posted 12-17-2018 11:00 PM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 100 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:30 PM GDR has not yet responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4960
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 90 of 381 (845688)
12-18-2018 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
12-18-2018 6:33 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
You seem fine Faith with saying what I believe without reading the things I've written'
Faith writes:

GDR calls true Christianity the "goats" just as jar always has.

I did not say that. The goats are the ones that don't have a heart for others.
Faith writes:

He thinks being nicey nice is all there is to it, and he portrays Jesus as a stupid wimp,

Nonsense. Jesus went into Jerusalem knowing what would happen to Him. It took courage to say to His fellow Jews that evil is defeated with love and that includes the Romans.
Faith writes:

denies His deity,

Again nonsense. Jesus was anointed by the Father and enthroned by the Father to be Lord of all nations.
Faith writes:

denies a lot of the supernatural events of the Bible

I'm not sure what you mean but I believe in the healing stories in the NT and most importantly in the resurrection.
Faith writes:

denies that God in the OT IS God

..and again nonsense. God chose the usually enslaved little tribe of nomads to reveal His truths climaxing in Jesus.
Faith writes:

and that Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity

Batting 100. Jesus is the 2nd person of the Trinity.
Faith writes:

God who was born into human flesh in order to perfectly obey God's Law in our place and die for all our sins in our place.

That's a little more complicated. Jesus embodied the Word of God. He also prayed to God the Father and did sacrifice His life, standing in as the perfect Jew for all mankind.
Faith writes:

He calls the Gospel itself selfishness.

The Gospel is anything but until fundamentalists twist it all out of shape.

As you feel free to criticize my church let me just say that your church, (assuming your church thinks as you do), teaches a message that doesn't conform to the Biblical message and certainly doesn't conform to Jesus' teaching. Your church teaches that it is all about personal salvation and ensuring you're on the right side of the ledger in the next life, and if you follow a life that loves other so much the better. As I've said you are modern Pharisees turning doctrinal belief into the law.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 12-18-2018 6:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4960
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 109 of 381 (845712)
12-19-2018 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by riVeRraT
12-18-2018 11:27 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
riVeRrat writes:

Or that we just want to make sure the people we are going to help aren't going to kill us, either on purpose or by accident, so that we can continue to help. In order to be in a position that allows you to help, you must also take care of yourself. Jesus once knocked over a table or 2 in the temple.

Yes, Jesus knocked over a table or two in the Temple. He was protesting against the evil that had taken over what was to be the place where the Jews could meet with their God. He had the courage to go into Jerusalem knowing that crucifixion was what would happen to someone doing what He was doing. Faith accused me of projecting Jesus as a stupid wimp. When have you ever known someone with the guts that it took to go into Jerusalem doing what Jesus did, knowing that He would suffer not just death but a torturous drawn out death, and a death that would be totally humiliating. He knew that is what the those in authority would do. He did that because He believed it was the right thing to do and that He had to do it for Israel and the world. Some stupid wimp eh.

You and Faith are afraid of the one in a million more chance that one of those that come in might be a terrorist. Do you really think that is the cowardly approach that Jesus would have you take?

I'm glad that the first disciples, Paul and so many other Christians over the years didn't take that cowardly approach. The Christian faith would have been very short lived if it wasn't for the courage of the early followers of Jesus. People like you can talk a good line about your Christian beliefs but when the going gets even a little bit tough they're out the window saying that I have to be kept safe so I can do God's work. It's the old expression, "if you're goin' talk the talk you've got to walk the walk". You've got the talk but I don't see a lot of walking.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:27 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 12-19-2018 4:21 AM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 116 by Faith, posted 12-19-2018 1:51 PM GDR has responded
 Message 131 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:44 AM GDR has not yet responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4960
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 121 of 381 (845752)
12-19-2018 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Faith
12-19-2018 1:51 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
Faith writes:

Any Muslim could be a terrorist, and could become a terrorist at any point even if not at the moment.

So could anyone even Christians.
Faith writes:

That's because terrorism is built into Islam. There are Syrians who are not Muslims, and it's possible to be a Muslim without accepting the parts that turn people into terrorists, but it's also possible to accept those parts at any time and become a terrorist. Because it's built into Islam. Y

People could say that abhorrent behaviour is built into Christianity. As a literalist you believe that God is capable of ordering genocide. I know that you would never condone genocide today but you do condone it back then, as being just because whoever wrote that part of the Bible claims that God ordered it. You believe that he wasn't writing on behalf of himself but on behalf of God.
Faith writes:

You don't say if your Syrian refugees are Muslim but since Christian Syrians weren't high on Obama's list for acceptance in the US I'd guess maybe Canada has a similar attitude, so it's a good guess yours is Muslim. They'd rather just make everybody Muslim and that just takes growing their numbers. Muslims aren't interested in assimilating in any case. They will remain separate, work to get Sharia Law in force, one way or another work to establish the Kalifa in which the whole world belongs to Allah.

One family was Christian, the rest were Muslim, although in general they aren't Musims who attend the mosque much.

Without us bringing them over here they would have spent their days in refugee camps and usually would be unable to return to their homeland in safety. They have come over here and are busily learning to speak Engkish, the adults are getting jobs and the kids are going to school. I was by one of the homes that one group of 9 lives in and they are flying a Canadian flag out in front of the house. It's the only one on the street.

Here is a quote again from Matthew 25.

quote:
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

They were strangers and we invited them in and all of us are better off for it, as we were doing what Jesus called us to do.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Faith, posted 12-19-2018 1:51 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 12-21-2018 12:13 PM GDR has responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4960
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 189 of 381 (845890)
12-21-2018 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Faith
12-21-2018 12:13 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
..but it is you that claims that God ordered genocide and public stonings. As you claim that as God gave the command it must be good. Therefore, although I know you don't, others could claim that genocide would be the right approach to deal with Islamic populations. The circumstances are similar so the best solution would be to go drop bombs on them, or as individuals go carry out a terrorist act in Islamic territories.

Again, anyone can become a terrorist.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 12-21-2018 12:13 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 12-28-2018 1:58 PM GDR has responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4960
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 206 of 381 (846099)
12-28-2018 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Faith
12-28-2018 1:58 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
Faith writes:

You are ignoring my one simple point: The written documents of Islam directly address the reader with commands to murder infidels. That does not exist in the Bible or in any other religion that I know of.


Did God command genocide or not?
Faith writes:

Some total ignoramus who thinks he's to obey commands addressed to the Israelites 3500 years ago is a ridiculous comparison.

And besides, how many Christians do you know who have taken such a command from the Bible and shot up a crowd or drove into a crowd or did a suicide bombing as if commanded to do so?

There are those who have attacked abortion centres. (You don't have to agree with abortion to see that as wrong.) Also, just maybe the west should be a lot more reticent about dropping bombs on foreign nations. It isn't the only way to resolve issues. I can't see where the average Iraqi is better off now than they were under Hussein. It is really just another group of thugs that have taken Hussein's place and in the meantime the west is responsible for the maiming and death of thousands of innocent Iraqis. That might have something to do with the west being seen as the enemy.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 12-28-2018 1:58 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
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