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Author Topic:   Being offended.
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1932
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 346 of 381 (846866)
01-12-2019 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by AZPaul3
01-12-2019 4:22 PM


Like most rightist demagogues you seem willfully blind to any human suffering but your own.

she follows the most sacred of jesus's teachings: "Fuck you I got mine"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by AZPaul3, posted 01-12-2019 4:22 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 32905
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 347 of 381 (846867)
01-12-2019 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by DrJones*
01-12-2019 4:28 PM


No, dear, the principle here is reality. I'm not required to do more than I'm able, and a nation is not required to trash its citizens for foreigners.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by DrJones*, posted 01-12-2019 4:28 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by Percy, posted 01-14-2019 1:39 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 348 of 381 (846870)
01-12-2019 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by Faith
01-12-2019 4:25 PM


Yeah, the Samaritan who came across a man who had been robbed, kicked him in the nuts to make sure, went through his clothing finding nothing, kicked him in the nuts again, and dumped him behind a bush is my favorite story.

Is there any group outside of groups you're in that you don't hate?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 4:25 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 10:33 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 349 of 381 (846874)
01-12-2019 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by Faith
01-12-2019 3:10 PM


The Guatemalan girl died of dehydration and shock. She did not have H1N1. You can't see through any right wing lies, can you?

The Cato Institute is a strongly right-wing libertarian think tank. From their The Migrant Caravan, Central America, and Vaccination Rates:

quote:
Figure 1 shows that average vaccination rates for Tuberculosis (BCG), Diphtheria, Pertussis, & Tetanus (DTP1), Diphtheria, Pertussis, & Tetanus (DTP3), Hepatitis B (HepB_BD), Hepatitis B (HepB3), Haemophilus Influenzae (Hib3), Polio (IPV1), Measles 1st Dose (MCV1), Measles 2nd Dose (MCV2), Streptococcus Pneumoniae (PCV3), Polio (Pol3), Rubella (RCV1), and Rotavirus (RotaC). The United States is in the middle of the pack with an 89 percent average vaccination coverage rate.

The following figures all show the vaccination coverage rates for different vaccines in Central American countries relative to the United States. In some figures, some countries are excluded because there are no WHO estimates of their vaccination rates. The United States does not have the highest vaccination coverage rate for any vaccine reported below. Perhaps members of the migrant caravan have lower vaccination rates than their fellow countrymen or they are carrying other serious contagions that cannot be vaccinated against. But for most of these illnesses below, you have more to fear from your fellow Americans than from Central Americans.


{emphasis mine}


This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 3:10 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:29 AM JonF has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32905
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 350 of 381 (846875)
01-12-2019 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by JonF
01-12-2019 5:05 PM


Is there any group outside of groups you're in that you don't hate?

I seriously think that such a question as that should be regarded as hate speech. It's a lie, it's slander, it shows a total inability to understand what I've been saying, and it reduces the conversation to typical PC ad hominem character assassination. Destructive leftist name calling like this should be soundly trounced by anyone with a brain or a sense of justice.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by JonF, posted 01-12-2019 5:05 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by JonF, posted 01-13-2019 9:43 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 354 by ringo, posted 01-13-2019 1:35 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 358 by Percy, posted 01-14-2019 1:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32905
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 351 of 381 (846877)
01-13-2019 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 349 by JonF
01-12-2019 7:50 PM


OK, you made the point about vaccination.

What I'd like to know is the causes of the extreme poverty and lack of education that drives people to the US. Government corruption is a sort of catchall I've had in mind but the reasons must be complex. If there's anyone who actually knows about these things I suppose we should start a new thread.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by JonF, posted 01-12-2019 7:50 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 353 by JonF, posted 01-13-2019 9:44 AM Faith has acknowledged this reply
 Message 361 by Pressie, posted 01-18-2019 5:57 AM Faith has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 352 of 381 (846894)
01-13-2019 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by Faith
01-12-2019 10:33 PM


So you hate all groups of which you are not at member. Thought so.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 10:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 353 of 381 (846895)
01-13-2019 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 351 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:29 AM


Thank you for acknowledging the point about vaccination.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:29 AM Faith has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 354 of 381 (846911)
01-13-2019 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by Faith
01-12-2019 10:33 PM


Faith writes:

... it shows a total inability to understand what I've been saying....


You seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding about how communication works. If nobody understands what you're saying, the fault lies not in your stars but in yourself.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 10:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 355 of 381 (846974)
01-14-2019 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by Faith
01-12-2019 3:29 PM


Faith in Message 339 writes:

The true Right has true statistics, yours are manipulated by the Left.

And you know this how? You wouldn't be making up stuff off the top of your head again, would you?

You posted a second reply to my Message 337:

Faith in Message 341 writes:

Since they are misled by various Leftist and Open Borders organizations into making the dangerous trek in the first place,...

The one organization that seems to play a significant role with migrants is Pueblo Sin Fronteras. They provide assistance to displaced people and helped organize the caravans. I couldn't find any evidence that they provide outreach encouraging people to leave their home countries. They seem to provide assistance to people who have already left.

...if we had a secure system that kept them out unless they applied through legal channels, meaning from their own countries and not after they arrive here, they would not make the trek in the first place...

Yes, that seems to be Trump's goal, to make things so miserable for migrants currently trying to enter the country that people contemplating the same journey would get the message and be dissuaded from making the attempt.

...and we would not be put in the position of "turning our backs" on them.

But "turning our backs" on them is precisely the strategy. Trump thinks that only by treating current migrants so horribly, i.e., by very aggressively "turning our backs" on them by using approaches like family separation and making them wait to apply for asylum, that others will be discouraged from making the same attempt because they realize that America has turned its back on them. Just because we manage to become so aggressively horrible that migrants stop showing up on our borders doesn't mean we haven't turned our back on them. Their suffering continues.

But it's time to remind you yet again that most illegal immigrants arrive here by overstaying their visas, not through illegal border crossings.

That's the doing of the Hate America Left, which is the main thing you are not getting from your media propaganda mill.

You're making things up again. Why are you behaving like Trump's lackey and trying to turn political differences into hate?

How many hundreds of thousands and millions of illegals do you think America can afford to have "compassion" toward?

You mean how many immigrants should we allow into the country every year, whether as asylee, refugee, abuse victim, worker, family member, etc? Right now it's 1.18 million for the most recent year for which we have figures, 2016 (see Immigration to the United States). If we allowed in every Central American who wanted to come it would probably amount to no more than a hundred thousand annually, raising the total annual immigration by around 8.5% to 1.28 million. Our current population growth rate is 0.7%, and this additional immigration would raise it to 0.73%. Just for comparison purposes, if we cut off all immigration our population growth rate would shrink to 0.4% annually, meaning our growth rate just from reproduction is barely above zero. Excluding immigration we're dangerously close to having a shrinking population, which is a very bad thing - just look at Japan. We need immigration.

You know what can happen to countries with too small a population? Germany is what happens to them. Germany happened to France in two world wars and devastated the country, simply because Germany had a larger population, 58 million to 42 million in 1939 just before WWII. Larger populations mean more factories for war production, larger armies, more fighter pilots, etc.

Are you thinking at all?

Quite obviously you're the only one among all of us who isn't thinking. You just stick your head into the right-wing echo chamber and then come here and babble on about inanities. I just gave you a bunch of figures above, and my guess is that you'll ignore them and certainly not understand them. Getting up a good head of steam in that engine of hate of yours is what you're looking for.

Do you have any notion at all of what it's been costing us which is never mentioned by the Left since all they care about is getting fraudulent votes from uneducated people?

You're doing a fine job of providing an example of uneducated people on the right. Suppose you tell us what illegal immigrants are costing us. Provide your sources and math, by the way. Oh, horrors, that would require research!

And again, why are you defending ILLEGAL entry no matter how many jobs there are?

Where did I defend illegal entry? Are you thinking about where I defended the right of migrants to apply for asylum, whether they entered the country illegally or not? Did you miss the part about international treaties about asylum and refugees, of which we are signatory? I'm not encouraging migrants to enter the country illegally, but once here they do have certain rights. See statute 212(d)(5)(A).

What I'm encouraging is increasing immigration limits, especially for humanitarian reasons for our neighbors to the south.

Drugs ARE coming in,...

We should keep a count of how many times people have told you that drugs come in primarily through legal points of entry. Current staffing and equipment allows 1 out of 5 vehicles to be checked. We want staffing and equipment to be increased to make checking all vehicles possible. This will of course cause drug smuggling efforts to shift to illegal border crossings, planes, drones, air travelers, etc., so of course we'll have to make additional improvements. Maybe even including more wall, who knows. It will require study and analysis, not just blindly, "Hey, let's put up a wall from sea to shining sea."

...criminals ARE coming in,...

Criminals are least likely to be stymied by a wall.

...people who become depending on our welfare system thanks to the idiot Left ARE coming in and all this is costing us billions, yes billions.

You keep repeating this fallacy. Please explain to us how an illegal immigrant qualifies for welfare. Even legal immigrants can't qualify for welfare, so how are you imagining illegal immigrants do it?

Your "compassion" is nothing but a way of shutting up rational discussion...

It's not possible to have any influence on your rational discussion because you haven't offered any. All you've offered is false information, unsupported declarations, and scaremongering.

...while ignoring the corruption that exploits the cheap labor at the expense of Americans who would take the work if they got paid enough,...

You mean like the corruption of Donald Trump and all the illegal immigrants he employs at his properties? At salaries that don't interest most Americans? And are you making another appeal for raising the minimum wage? I think that would be wonderful.

...and the political motivation that allows noncitizens to vote.

You're not even making sense here. There are no political efforts to give noncitizens the vote.

What about compassion for AMERICANS?

Who here doesn't have compassion for Americans?

The US should work toward making the rest of the western hemisphere as desirable a place to live as the US - that's how we'll really solve the illegal immigration problem.

I agree and I'm sure it's being done to the best of anyone's ability,...

Then why is Trump threatening to take away aid to Central American countries that do not halt the flow of their citizens northward?

...but what can you do with a sovereign government that does not share our values and only wants to stay in power no matter what? Financial aid only goes to the wrong people. The people themselves have to be able to create enterprises that build up their society. If the policies of their government don't make that possible what would you suggest as the solution?

I don't have any answers, but there are people in government who are expert in these types of policy issues. What do they say? Oh, wait, that's right, you don't do any research. Sigh. Okay, let me go research what they're saying...

Here's a good article: Sending aid is key to solving the Central American migrant crisis. It says:

quote:
President Trump has threatened to cut off or substantially reduce United States foreign assistance to Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador because their governments are “not able to do the job of stopping people from leaving their country and coming illegally” to the United States.

That policy approach misses the mark. Many Central American migrants are fleeing the violence of kidnapping, gangs, and rape that local authorities have been powerless to stop. But targeted investment in police, courts, prosecutors, and widespread engagement of civil society can make a measurable difference in the lives of the poorest. Central America needs more of that United States investment rather than less.


--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 3:29 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by dwise1, posted 01-14-2019 11:19 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 356 of 381 (846975)
01-14-2019 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by Faith
01-12-2019 4:25 PM


Faith writes:

It should be pretty interesting when Jesus confronts all you know it alls with your misreadings of His teachings. One glance from Him should do it, shrink you down to size.

Yeah, we'll be sorry, just like you were raptured.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 4:25 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 357 of 381 (846976)
01-14-2019 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by Faith
01-12-2019 4:29 PM


Faith writes:

No, dear, the principle here is reality.

You're going to give reality a try? That's wonderful!

I'm not required to do more than I'm able, and a nation is not required to trash its citizens for foreigners.

More scaremongering. See the figures in my earlier post. Increasing immigration by 100,000 annually would be a drop in the bucket for a country our size, and increasing our population growth would be good for us economically and for our assistance programs for the elderly, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid (the last also provides assistance for the non-elderly).

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 4:29 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 358 of 381 (846977)
01-14-2019 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by Faith
01-12-2019 10:33 PM


Faith writes:

Is there any group outside of groups you're in that you don't hate?

I seriously think that such a question as that should be regarded as hate speech. It's a lie, it's slander, it shows a total inability to understand what I've been saying, and it reduces the conversation to typical PC ad hominem character assassination. Destructive leftist name calling like this should be soundly trounced by anyone with a brain or a sense of justice.

But you didn't answer the question. It's a reasonable question given your campaigns of hate across many threads for nearly a couple decades.

Oh, I see you're an Inactive Member now. Did you take lessons in throwing temper tantrums from Trump, or vice-versa?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 10:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-14-2019 6:10 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2314
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 7.4


(5)
Message 359 of 381 (846993)
01-14-2019 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by Percy
01-14-2019 1:43 PM


Did you take lessons in throwing temper tantrums from Trump, or vice-versa?

I don't know if anyone has noticed or commented on it before, but Faith is almost a perfect clone of Trump and has been since before I even knew who Trump was. Ignorance, stupidity, fear and hate. The same behaviors, arrogance and total lack self awareness and dignity.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Percy, posted 01-14-2019 1:43 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3707
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 360 of 381 (846998)
01-14-2019 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by Percy
01-14-2019 1:31 PM


Faith writes:

Do you have any notion at all of what it's been costing us which is never mentioned by the Left since all they care about is getting fraudulent votes from uneducated people?


You're doing a fine job of providing an example of uneducated people on the right. Suppose you tell us what illegal immigrants are costing us. Provide your sources and math, by the way. Oh, horrors, that would require research!

While she's figuring out how much illegal immigrants are costing us (and why), she should also figure out how much tax revenue we're getting from them; eg, property tax (including when they rent), sales tax, gasoline tax, income tax (for which I doubt that they can get a refund), payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare (benefits for which they cannot receive).

Also, in Message 329 she claims: " ... OUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS GIVEN TO THEM FOR WELFARE AND MEDICAL COSTS NOT EVEN GIVEN TO CITIZENS ...". She needs to reveal what welfare and medicals costs those actually are (and how much they are) along with an explanation of why citizens cannot receive those same benefits.

She also needs to explain how non-citizens would be able to vote in our elections. Granted that each state runs elections in their own local ways, but I know what I need to go through to vote in California and based on that I cannot see how a non-citizen would be able to cast a vote.

Faith writes:

...while ignoring the corruption that exploits the cheap labor at the expense of Americans who would take the work if they got paid enough,...


You mean like the corruption of Donald Trump and all the illegal immigrants he employs at his properties? At salaries that don't interest most Americans?

Something just occurred to me. In the case involving Trump's New Jersey resort, management obtained fake IDs for their illegal workers, but then management keeps those IDs locked away in thus not allowing them to leave. That is a very common practice of human traffickers. Does this mean that Trump is also involved in human trafficking?

Edited by Admin, : Fix duplicated text in last quoted section.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by Percy, posted 01-14-2019 1:31 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
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