Being offended.

And this is the problem with Biblical liiteralsim. You can completely ignore what Jesus taught and lived, because you can find a verse somewhere in the Bible to support anything that you want it to. It can be used to support anything from genocide to the prosperity gospel to total pacifism.You say that "I consider you an opponent of everything good in this world, Jesus' love above all." I just wonder if you can find a phrase in your post that sounds at all like the love of Jesus.

Yes I gathered you've been stupidly supporting possible terrorists. Jesus does not teach us to expose our neighbors to terrorists. You are a complete idiot and you are not a follower of Jesus Christ who would never countenance such a wacked out idea of His love as yours. So are you like those crazy "Christians" who turned a church into a mosque out of a misguided idea of Jesus" love? It's really hatred. It's evil.
And yes the US has done a great deal for the suffering of the world. So far we've done it fairly sanely in order to preserve the means that make such help possible. Your methods would destroy those means. You are a blithering idiot GDR and you are NOT a follower of Jesus Christ. As for government corruptions it's been getting bad because of the Left and your crazy misreading of Jesus is a Leftist style insanity that will only add to the corruptions. I consider you an opponent of everything good in this world, Jesus' love above all.

I have read GDR's post and your response over and over trying to make some sense of the strength of your response. I even went back a bit to see if you two had some history and saw that GDR is a pretty calm and reasonable poster, and has some interesting perspectives on things. What I cannot find is any reason for you to be so mean and hateful to somebody saying that they, through their church, try to help people. Am I missing something here?

You're right.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Funny idea of love.

There is objective evidence that I am. There is ample, widespread and convincing evidence that people all across the political spectrum are irritated by people trying to make converts to their faith, and that they have been irritated by this long before the concept of "PC" existed. You yourself would probably not relish spending ten minutes listening to an earnest Jehovah's Witness explaining why everyone in your church is going to hell. This is not because you are tainted with political correctness, this is because of human nature. Being proselytized to is embarrassing, like you'd feel if someone you found really unattractive was explaining to you at length why you should date them.Classing this same irritation and embarrassment, when directed to yourself as a form of "political correctness" extends that term further than it will go.

So let me get this straight... people were offended that you were feeding the poor, helping the sick, caring for those most in need, giving them clothes, digging wells, building schools, etc... ?? That seems odd. Can you think of any reason they would be offended by those things? Maybe there was some other way you were sharing "God's love"? Maybe they were not being sensitive to the local culture and trying to push Western values on them. The "greater good" doesn't mean turning them into something they are not. You cannot control how others react to you. All you can do is to consider the other person more important than yourself and try to be sensitive to their needs and what is important to them. And share God's love by doing right.HBD

Welcome, and yes, this is Faith's basic modus operandi. Anything she disagrees with is evil, stupid, hateful, etc... I would like to say that underneath all that animosity she is basically a good person, but there is just nothing I have seen in hundreds of conversations with her that would lend support to that statement.HBD

I think this perspective of hers comes from the idea that everything is God's will. So if there are poor or other undesirables it is because God wills it and they serve a divine purpose. And if they are going to be saved or healed or fed, it will happen regardless of what we do, since God wills it. So there is just no need to take risks because God is in control and whatever he wants to happen will happen. I think this is the same reason why so many evangelicals reject climate change... God is in control of the environment, not man. Of course, I personally reject this theology as non-Biblical, corrupt and against human decency.Everything you said in Message 52 was spot on, IMHO. In addition, we should be addressing the issues that cause people to flee their homelands. I can't imagine life being so horrible that you would want to pack up and walk several thousand miles to an unknown, unfriendly land. But instead of working to fix these problems, we have actually either caused many of the problems or exacerbated them.The christian right have sold their souls to the devil in order to achieve their political agenda and it is very discouraging. It's good to hear a fellow Christian who has not lost the main point.HBD

"Possible terrorists"? EVERYONE'S a possible terrorist, Faith, except maybe people in irreversible comas. Under that rubric you can hate anyone. The pro-life movement "stupidly supports possible terrorists", because any one of those embryos could possibly grow up to be a terrorist.The only way this dumb phrase could have any significance is if refugees are significantly likely to be terrorists.Faith, please list me all the deadly terrorist attacks committed by refugees since the Refugee Act of 1980. It won't take you long.Some figures to think about. This year the Trump administration admitted about 22000 refugees, as the end result of a screening process that takes about 2 years.For comparison, that's fewer than the number of people released from prison (not local jails, but proper straight-up prison) on to the streets every two weeks. Over a year the figure is about 640000.So on the one hand we have 640000 people found criminal enough to serve time, and on the other hand we have 22000 people who have been investigated by the Department of Homeland Security and found kosher --- and also genuinely in need of asylum, Faith, they don't just check that they're not terrorists, they also check that they really are fleeing genocide, torture, religious persecution.And for which group do you reserve your hysteria? Because they are possible terrorists? But Jesus did have a little something to say about possible terrorists. He told the parable of the Good Samaritan. Just to remind you of the historical context, the Jews and Samaritans had a history of mutual hatred and bloody conflict in which the Jews had destroyed the Samaritan temple. And Jesus praised the good Samaritan who helped the Jew.Please note that the Samaritan didn't have a Department of Homeland Security to screen the Jew for two years to see if he was a good Jew or a bad Jew. All he knew was that he was of the race that had persecuted and slaughtered his people. And he expended time and money helping him.Compare and contrast your attitude to refugees. They have been carefully screened, they have been found worthy of refugee status, and no-one is asking you to help them with time, money, or anything else; but when you see someone like GDR who does help them (or their Canadian counterparts) you tell him that he is "an opponent of everything good in this world, Jesus' love above all".Faith, GDR is following Jesus' teachings; he is following the example of the good Samaritan.And you, Faith, you also have your own place in that parable. For nearly two millennia the Gospels have supplied us with a word for "religious" people of your kind, people who boast of their piety and religion but are cold-hearted hypocrites without charity or mercy.That word, Faith, is Pharisee.

Oh nonsense.

What is it then, Faith? I am legitimately trying to understand how "Biblical Christians" can take the types of positions you take. I find these ideas to be against everything I understand Christianity to be about and I am trying to understand how you justify your position Biblically. Obviously there is some way you justify it and my explanation seems reasonable. But I wonder... how is fear Biblical? How is trying to protect what's yours Biblical? I sincerely don't get it.HBD

Very well said, Dr. A. I find it very sad that an atheist has a better grip on what the Bible teaches than a "TRUE Biblical Christian." Of course, I'm sure Faith doesn't see it that way...HBD

I agree with you guys. I believe in God, and I believe that there is some way that He edifies my inner spirit and conscience with His Spirit, though of course cannot prove it. I won't go as far as jar did and predict that most of the Christians will be goats, though I do believe that the atheists, secular humanists, and non-religious Bible students on this forum have something to say. It is sheer arrogance to think that believers alone have the only possible consensus on what God will and will not do. Ringo claims that doing the message is tantamount to knowing the messenger. I will keep EvC Forum in my prayers, as I believe that God is using non-believers to impact a changing world.

That would be covered under turning the other cheek. That would be covered under not judging lest ye be judged.

Hi Faith, I hope you are well.I think that rather than totalitarianism it is more that the current societal norms do not match and socially sanction yours.That’s always been the case when one is out of step with the mainstream.Did you know that some episodes of the American show ‘Friends’ are now considered inappropriate?When I watched them in the 90’s I laughed along with everyone when Ross was being poked fun at for his wife running off with another woman: comedy gold! My 18 yr old Nephew told me it was outdated and insensitive.I think you are conflating totalitarianism with the normative social values not matching your own anymore: my nephew thinks I’m his version of the ‘racist uncle’ trope.Time makes fools of us all.