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Author Topic:   My health journey and why I no longer believe everything my doctors say
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2811
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 16 of 30 (846292)
01-02-2019 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Lammy
12-31-2018 10:32 AM


There is a old joke that goes:

I told the doctor that every time I move my finger like this it hurts.
He told me. "stop doing that."

If eating one large meal is keeping you symptom free and healthy then it seems you have on your own found your path back to good health.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Lammy, posted 12-31-2018 10:32 AM Lammy has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12033
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 17 of 30 (846296)
01-02-2019 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by AnswersInGenitals
01-02-2019 3:45 PM


Re: Started Fast at 7 PM Wednesday.
AiG writes:

It is a big mistake to think of doctors as scientists (at least the ones who treat us, not research doctors). They really aren't even engineers. The closest analogy is that they are like auto mechanics taking their information from shop manuals plus a lot of guesswork.

Lets ad internet personalities to the list. Even my Doctor attends conferences and makes free videos for the internet.

Despite his public crusades, I always get a full half hour each time I go see him and he spends far more time answering my questions than the traditional endocrinologists did---they would simply send in a Physicians Assistant to punch my data into a laptop and prescribe more medicines.

In addition, I believe that as patients, we also need to do our research and cooperate with our Doctors as a member of the health team assigned to care for ourselves(us). Too many people never question what the Doctors tell them, nor seek to understand the science at a basic layman's level so as to become responsible for their own health. Getting back to the mechanic's analogy, it helps to know the difference between a carburetor and a starter when asking them to fix your car.

Edited by Phat, : started fast late.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 01-02-2019 3:45 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 01-03-2019 8:06 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12033
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 18 of 30 (846302)
01-03-2019 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
01-02-2019 7:20 PM


Fasting Day One
I finally launched my fast a day later than planned. I had to feel strong enough to do it since fasting lowers the effectiveness of the immune system and I had felt as if I were catching a cold. Turned out to be a false alarm, but I am enduring early waves of hunger today(Thursday) as I go to get a Calcium scan on my heart and a pre-op doctors visit before my vitrectomy planned for January 22nd. My intention is to get a good fast in before this operation in order to lower my blood sugar (turns out my A1C was 8.0) and try and get my eye as ready as possible.

Oh and Lambo...you never told me if your sister is on insulin.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 01-02-2019 7:20 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Lammy, posted 01-03-2019 10:24 AM Phat has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 799
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 19 of 30 (846303)
01-03-2019 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by AnswersInGenitals
01-02-2019 3:45 PM


Re: Started Fast at 7 pm Wed
It is a big mistake to think of doctors as scientists (at least the ones who treat us, not research doctors). They really aren't even engineers. The closest analogy is that they are like auto mechanics taking their information from shop manuals plus a lot of guesswork.

My brother is a doctor and I am an engineer so I have to admit; that gave me a chuckle. :-)

To be fair, the one thing to consider is that doctors have to see multiple patients a day and depending on the load, it can be quite a blur. Engineers usually can focus on one problem at a time and work towards resolution of that problem. So we can operate more linearly. Doctors often have to multitask and are often dealing with minimal information.

From my perspective, I have actually had a couple of really good doctors in the past fifteen years. My doctor when I was still in California worked with me to discover that I was hypothyroid. I was having symptoms that almost seemed like allergies. In fact, I had visited the doctor assuming that was the problem. But when I described the symptoms, she was suspicious of that assertion and had some blood work done for me. And lo and behold, she was correct and my thyroid numbers were out of whack. I went on medication and I am fine now. My more recent doctor in Florida is actually quite a jovial fellow and spends time listening during my annual physicals. Mind you, other than hypothyroid issues, I don't have any other major health problems other than some early onset prostate issues. Used some meds for that initially but they didn't help so I eventually had surgery. Not perfect, but good enough of an effect that the outcome works for me.

Edited by Admin, : Fix typos.

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 01-02-2019 3:45 PM AnswersInGenitals has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 01-03-2019 2:33 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 20 of 30 (846304)
01-03-2019 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
01-03-2019 8:06 AM


Re: Fasting Day One
I don't think so.

If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 01-03-2019 8:06 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 01-03-2019 11:50 AM Lammy has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12033
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 21 of 30 (846306)
01-03-2019 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Lammy
01-03-2019 10:24 AM


Re: Fasting Day One
What is your basic exercise routine? Do you do high intensity peak 8 training? Is the health club a social interaction as well? How many days a week and for how long are you there? Any fitness goals for 2019?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Lammy, posted 01-03-2019 10:24 AM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Lammy, posted 01-03-2019 1:46 PM Phat has responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 22 of 30 (846307)
01-03-2019 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
01-03-2019 11:50 AM


Re: Fasting Day One
Weight training mostly with dumb bells. Rotate through eqch section of my body. For example, today I will be working on my arms. Bicep curls, triceps, etc.

I work-out at the gym 5 days a week. Sometimes, twice in one day. I add in cardio to my weight training routine twice or 3 times a week, depending on how I feel. All fasted work-out, of course, since I only eat once a day 5 days a week.

No fitness goals for 2019. I'm just bulking up as much muscle as I could.


If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 01-03-2019 11:50 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 01-04-2019 1:42 AM Lammy has responded

    
AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 505
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 23 of 30 (846308)
01-03-2019 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Diomedes
01-03-2019 9:36 AM


drs = mechanics
To be fair, the one thing to consider is that doctors have to see multiple patients a day and depending on the load, it can be quite a blur. Engineers usually can focus on one problem at a time and work towards resolution of that problem. So we can operate more linearly. Doctors often have to multitask and are often dealing with minimal information.

Welcome to the world of the auto mechanic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Diomedes, posted 01-03-2019 9:36 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12033
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 24 of 30 (846313)
01-04-2019 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Lammy
01-03-2019 1:46 PM


Phats Fasting Day Two
I'm now 28 hours into the fast. Using Keto-Test strips I am only now noticing any evidence of ketones being burned.
Lambo writes:

All fasted work-out, of course, since I only eat once a day 5 days a week.

I would be curious to test whether you ever really achieved Ketosis, however. Science tells us that Ketosis only starts once every gram of glucose is burned out of the body, muscles, and liver.
Quora.com writes:

Its approximately 3 days for the average person. The body holds approximately 400g of glycogen in the liver. This needs to be used before you switch to fat burning/ketosis. You can probably do this in 1–2 days if you are an athlete or runner.

If you eat once every 24 hours, you may still be burning glucose, especially if your meals have lots of carbs in them. What do you think?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Lammy, posted 01-03-2019 1:46 PM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Lammy, posted 01-04-2019 9:24 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12033
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 25 of 30 (846314)
01-04-2019 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lammy
12-30-2018 4:03 PM


I read some informative articles that you might be interested in.
How Fast Do You Lose Strength After You Stop Lifting Weights? (Short Answer: In as little as two weeks) They say that "Cessation of anaerobic training or a substantial reduction in frequency, volume, intensity, or any combination of those three variables" causes a reduction in strength, but if subjects increased intensity they could cut back on frequency. I was attempting to find out if muscles could grow as much on ketones as they could with insulin. It appears that they too can become keto-adapted, though my intuition tells me that a once a day eating regimen such as you are on allows the best of both worlds....an insulin spike and growth opportunity with glycogen combined with keto-adaptation. What do you think, Lambo?

Also, check out How Much Time Should I Spend Lifting Weights?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lammy, posted 12-30-2018 4:03 PM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Lammy, posted 01-04-2019 9:31 AM Phat has responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 26 of 30 (846332)
01-04-2019 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
01-04-2019 1:42 AM


Re: Phats Fasting Day Two
You misunderstand me. I'm not aiming for ketosis. I'm plenty lean. If anything, I'm trying to bulk up. I eat once a day because it's the only thing I can do to not suffer all the health issues I outlined in post #1.

Edit.

Last night, husband and I went to the gym. The gym was full of new year's resolutioners. So, we did our routines as fast as we could.

I did 6 routines, 3 sets each, and 8-10 reps each set in just 30 minutes. For example, I did seated shoulder press with 65 lb on each side 3 sets 8-10 reps each set.

Again, I'm fairly active. Ran 4 miles a couple days ago.

Edited by Lammy, : No reason given.


If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 01-04-2019 1:42 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 27 of 30 (846333)
01-04-2019 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Phat
01-04-2019 2:16 AM


The problem with trying to become keto adapted is ketosis isn't necessarily good for you. Moderate amounts of ketone bodies in the blood is fine. But keep in mind that ketone is acidic and in the long run can do some damage to your cardiovascular system.

If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Phat, posted 01-04-2019 2:16 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 01-04-2019 3:04 PM Lammy has responded
 Message 30 by Theodoric, posted 01-05-2019 5:22 PM Lammy has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12033
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 28 of 30 (846341)
01-04-2019 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Lammy
01-04-2019 9:31 AM


Keto damage?
Ive not heard that before. Link me to the source. From all ive read keto has no flaws as an alternative fuel apart from not being as anerobically active.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Lammy, posted 01-04-2019 9:31 AM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Lammy, posted 01-04-2019 4:02 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 29 of 30 (846347)
01-04-2019 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
01-04-2019 3:04 PM


Re: Keto damage?
I'm not going to link because there hasn't enough research on this for a definitive answer.

I'm not saying ketosis is bad for you. It is a perfectly natural metabolic state. That much we know. However, I also operate under this philosophy: everything in moderation.

What you are doing is probably fine. I was referring to people who are constantly in a state of ketosis. Until further research is done on this, I'm going to assume it is not safe to keep your body in perpetual ketosis.

Anyway, we can start with the most common denominator. Do you agree that ketone bodies are acidic and raises the acidity level of your blood?

But again, I'm not aiming for ketosis. I eat once a day to avoid having the serious health issues that I've been plagued with since my teens.

I also think that what you are doing is a good thing. Fasting reboots your system and allows it time to rid itself of a lot of things. I'm assuming you are not a very active person?

We are looking at it from 2 different perspectives. I've always been active. I bench quite a bit of weight. Up to 130-140% of my body weight. I'm currently working on gaining a lot of muscle mass in my arms and chest. So, I really need the food to make this happen. You'd be amazed how much food I eat for my one meal during the day. A couple weeks ago, I easily stuffed my face with a 12 oz steak, 2 baked potatoes, a variety of vegetables, and several slices of bread for dinner. Last night, I had 3 large pieces of salmon, 2 eggs, 2 bacons, some quinoa, some rice, and peas.


If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 01-04-2019 3:04 PM Phat has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5908
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 30 of 30 (846420)
01-05-2019 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Lammy
01-04-2019 9:31 AM


But keep in mind that ketone is acidic and in the long run can do some damage to your cardiovascular system.

Those are fear mongering weasel words. Our bodies have lots of acids in them. We even put acids regularly into our bodies. Acids are not necessarily something bad. As a matter of fact life would not exist without amino acids and fatty acids.
Yes ketoacidosis is bad, but a keto diet is not going to cause it.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Lammy, posted 01-04-2019 9:31 AM Lammy has not yet responded

    
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