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Author Topic:   2019 Labor Pains
Phat
Member
Posts: 14734
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 1 of 53 (848937)
02-18-2019 6:10 PM


We are negotiating again in Colorado for our next contract.
King Soopers, Union Remain a Long Way Apart on New Labor Deal and so far the process is deadlocked.

I have attended most of the meetings and am watching the process play out. We are advocating fair and balanced proposals for all of the employees...not just the senior ones. Our proposals seem reasonable, and given that the corporations got their major tax cut from Trump, one would think that they could help take care of the rest of us. Stay tuned.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Coragyps, posted 02-19-2019 10:55 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 3 by ringo, posted 02-20-2019 2:56 PM Phat has responded
 Message 4 by DrJones*, posted 02-20-2019 2:58 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14734
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 53 (849158)
02-26-2019 3:57 PM


Labor Update
I posted a message to our local's Facebook page to better explain the negotiating process to everyone.
quote:
Bargaining 101

The process basically works like this.
1) A committee of members from a wide variety of stores and positions and classifications from across the state is formed. It represents a broad consensus of workers from all departments, all seniority levels, and all regions of Colorado. (This was done last year at the time of the survey) Based on the survey input from employees, the committee decides what major modifications to push to improve the contract.
2) The company sends around 7 or 8 people from its corporate hierarchy to negotiate. They decide what they want to take away from us in order to get as cheap a deal as they can for corporate profit.
3) The union committee and leadership negotiate with the corporation. Each side puts forth twenty or so main objectives for their proposal. We encourage members to attend and show unity and support, as it shows the corporation that we mean to stand together and get a fair deal for all. Members are encouraged to show up for the meetings and get accurate information as to what is being discussed. Printed updates give an outline but do not tell the whole story.
4) Corporate dickers and hems and haws, taking a long time to get to the main points. (this is where we are now) It is to their advantage to draw the process out in hopes that members will lose focus and seek a quick solution. At this point, unity and accurate information are essential. Members need to stay united. the goals are good for all of us.
5) Once the company gives us its best offer, known technically as a last, best and final offer, we as members get a chance to vote. This vote is very important. Unlike US Politics, a split vote is NOT the answer. It weakens us. We need a unified accept or reject vote of over 80% unity. The committee will recommend that we accept or reject an offer.
6) Voting to strike does not mean that a strike must occur. It only shows unity from the membership. A strong show of unity is the best hope for a good contract for everyone.
7) A strike vote can lead to a strike if the company does not reopen the negotiation. In today's economy and with today's market, a good contract is possible if everyone works together for all of us rather than simply for themselves.
The process is slow as is politics. It is the best process for a fair contract for everyone.

Does that explain it? Stay United! I'm on my way to the meeting before I work.---Member



Grocery workers contract dispute

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14734
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 6 of 53 (849604)
03-15-2019 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by ringo
02-20-2019 2:56 PM


Labor Pains In Colorado
Im as involved as a store steward can be. Here is the latest from Colorado.

So basically we have two chains of grocers in Colorado who are under UFCW Local 7. There are two separate contracts---one for Safeway and one for the larger chain, King Soopers. They are sister contracts in that they have basically the same language yet with a few exceptions. Kings has 12000 employees, most of them newer....(hired after 2005). We have far less...due to the fact that Safeway (now Safeway/Albertsons after the merger a few years ago) closed 35 stores and consolidated into fewer stronger stores. They canceled their contract extension and King Soopers employees are voting Thur and Fri (today) to see how many want to accept the contract proposal and how many want to strike.

Safeway still has a contract extension and no new negotiations scheduled yet.

We are waiting to see the outcome of this vote from rival (yet union brother) chain. Stay tuned...I'm in the thick of information regarding this. I am earning my stripes as a steward.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by ringo, posted 02-20-2019 2:56 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 03-16-2019 9:31 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14734
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 53 (849614)
03-16-2019 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
03-15-2019 4:19 PM


Re: Labor Pains In Colorado
The larger rival chain (King Soopers) had a vote and the vote to reject the contract offer that I showed here a few posts back and authorize a strike was an overwhelming 92%. My grocery store (Safeway) is still under a contract extension. We likely will get hit by a flood of business....perhaps overwhelmed. Now, I'm not sure what will happen and I have some more questions directed towards the union higher-ups. I told my store director the same thing that I told my co-workers. I believe that my store is unified should we need to be.

Not sure what happens next. Stay tuned.

King Soopers grocery workers vote to authorize strike

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 03-15-2019 4:19 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 04-06-2019 10:26 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14734
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 8 of 53 (849724)
03-19-2019 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by DrJones*
02-20-2019 2:58 PM


Why Would They Do That?
Good point. I had to do some digging.

Labor Unions: Liberal vs Conservative- Worthington


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by DrJones*, posted 02-20-2019 2:58 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14734
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 9 of 53 (850319)
04-06-2019 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Phat
03-16-2019 9:31 AM


Labor Solutions In Colorado
The King Soopers Contract was finally settled. The same 92% membership that voted to strike an earlier offer accepted the last offer cleanly and intentionally. Here is a letter from a member who attended the negotiatons:
quote:
Rising Star · April 4 at 7:14 PM
At the end of the meeting you came to realize that this whole contract is about the big picture, not just the bits and pieces we may want to individually focus on. There were allot of shocking reactions in the crowd when they explained about how we got the 2 tear problem and why. A lot of shocking gasps and eye opener reactions. The clapping of hands and moments of silence were few.

Anyone who didn't speak up about their angry concerns must of had a change of heart, or missed out on a open opportunity to stake their claim of concerns or even angry questions face to face with Kim Cordova. Very few questions hit the MIC.

I sat in my seat until about 5 minutes before the ballot closed and watched everyone's reaction to the meeting. I honestly believe a change of heart had happened and people were more informed about the entire facts of this contract.

I know some of those bits and pieces are extremely important but when you look at the whole contract you will see that it's a contract that was well worked as best as the committee could produce. It was obvious they worked every penny into the contract and made sure the company didn't take back any funds away from the table.

They didn't hide any issues that were developing with the rumors and talked about the truth vs lies and explained their side of the coin on each one. They even welcomed anyone who had concerns of any topic, and to freely speak their mind and they would talk it over with you. There were a lot of angry upset people walking into the meeting, but as they walked out. smiles and laughter seemed to fill the room. It felt like a family of union workers and it almost seemed like a family reunion. which is the way it should be.

What I experienced was that the committee fixed a ton of issues that was wrong in the last contract that directly affects us in the workplace and opens up much-needed opportunities for a lot of our associates.

The pay was the only issue and Kim herself will say she wasn't happy with the turn of events that led to the end result of wages. She reinforced her perspective on wages which made more sense than just myself trying to figure a graph of positions and numbers on a sheet of paper and explained the good bad and the ugly of it all. Her attorney who worked on the proposal with the union was happy to explain any concerns as well.

At the end of the hour of talking over the contract page by page, you will see the whole proposal from a different perspective. It's up to you to take it all in and ask the questions that you felt were most important. If you don't speak up then she can't give you answers of any clarity to your concerns on the final proposal that was drafted. You can use the opportunity or waste it and never get any closer to understanding when its all said and done.

I personally would be shocked if we went on strike after this phase of the contract. She explains everything in detail and answered all my concerns and issues. I was very skeptical in the beginning but in the end, I had a good understanding and idea on the WHOLE CONTRACT. Not just certain parts of it. Everything she said made sense to me.

They had enough people there to answer the details of any part of the contract including the legal attorneys who were making sure any questions were answered before the meeting. It might be in your best interest to go early so any questions or concerns can be answered.

I was there for about an hour and a half before the meeting with questions and concerns in hand. I even had a nice long talk with Kim herself. It was a very open experience. She stood her ground and was willing to explain every question that was presented directly in front of her. She was fearless and confident. I found new respect in her and I'm glad I had the opportunity to talk with her.

Just go to the meeting and find out for your self. If she doesn't clear up the issues in your mind then you know what to do. Just try to do it that doesn't involve a negative foundation and a misguided focus of the facts.

Either way, your vote counts, just keep an open mind and that will guide you in the direction that fits your decision on YOUR vote. Remember this is the strike vote.

God speed everyone
I'll pray another rosary for a good outcome for everyone.

As Saint Padre Pio famously said,

"Pray, Hope, and Don't Worry"


Now on to Safeway. Stay tuned.

Edited by Phat, : spellcheck


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 03-16-2019 9:31 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 04-07-2019 8:25 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14734
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 53 (850401)
04-07-2019 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
04-06-2019 10:26 AM


Safeway This Morning
It is Sunday, April 7th. Negotiations are resuming for the 3rd day between the corporate negotiating team from Safeway/Albertsons and the Local 7 Labor Union.

The meeting starts at 1030 am. I plan on attending as a member and observer. The process is fascinating to watch. After attending the meeting for perhaps 3 hours, I plan on then going to work, as I am scheduled 330-midnite at my store. As the shop steward, it is my responsibility to convey information to the members employed at my store. Much as been discussed and put on paper.

At this time, I cannot publically reveal the details, though I can say that we are now down to the brass tacks. Wages, Health Care, Seniority, and Pension.

Our rival grocer (and sister contract in labor-speak) has settled. The vote is expected to be fully ratified before any news is released to the public.

One strategy that I have seen involves private deals made between store management and certain employees.

Total unity is, of course, preferable from the democratic point of view, but total freedom to choose individually and manage yourself without interference from "a liberal agenda" is the conservative comeback.

One thing is for certain. I have done my homework and am more prepared to articulate key talking points to my members and to management as well. Being a shop steward can be grueling. I am not a Boss. Many biblical precepts are internalized by me as I deal with management.

  • "The Greatest Among You Will Be A Servant". In other words, I do whatever is asked of me, within reason. At age 59, I cannot throw freight or lift heavy boxes like a strapping lad of 20. I can, however, use my mind...the tool that God (or evolution, for you skeptics) has given me. Sometimes I feel that with my intelligence, my life has been wasted at this blue-collar job, but it is a bit late to have any regrets.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 9 by Phat, posted 04-06-2019 10:26 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14734
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 11 of 53 (850491)
    04-09-2019 7:25 AM


    Tentative Offer
    Sunday was a good day for learning! Our meetings went smoothly and there was consensus and progress. At the end of the meeting, we had this:

    So the next step will be a vote from all participating members. While we all have varied opinions regarding which way to vote, we are allowing the members to hear all sides of the discussion and how the consensus was arrived at. Stay tuned.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    Replies to this message:
     Message 14 by RAZD, posted 04-13-2019 11:14 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14734
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 12 of 53 (850492)
    04-09-2019 9:16 AM
    Reply to: Message 3 by ringo
    02-20-2019 2:56 PM


    Some of them should have been mandated by the government decades ago.
    Specifically which ones?

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 3 by ringo, posted 02-20-2019 2:56 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 13 by ringo, posted 04-09-2019 11:59 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14734
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 20 of 53 (862624)
    09-08-2019 11:28 AM
    Reply to: Message 18 by jar
    09-05-2019 3:01 PM


    Re: Soopers Goes Gunless
    I think its simply a ploy to reduce any subsequent liability. Here in Denver, Soopers used to have security who carried guns but they stopped that practice. Nobody can thus say in the event of an incident that the company provoked the escalated violence.

    Safeway is even worse with security, often having no guards and allowing nearly $1500.00 a day of product to go out the door via theft. Evidently they have become fearful of lawsuits, little realizing that 1 out of 10 people steal and that word gets around on the street if you (as a business) are an easy mark.

    Personally I think it is cowardly and deplorable not to fight theft. God tells me to pray for these thieves, but if I had it my own fleshly way I would get security to prosecute most of them. People need to be taught to obey the laws of society rather than flaunting their addiction and hurting the jobs of others.

    Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 18 by jar, posted 09-05-2019 3:01 PM jar has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 21 by ringo, posted 09-08-2019 2:37 PM Phat has responded
     Message 30 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2019 12:57 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14734
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 22 of 53 (862667)
    09-09-2019 4:13 PM
    Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
    09-08-2019 2:37 PM


    Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    You would be amazed at what we see. We have "regular" shoplifters. They bring large bags into the store with them and fill them surreptitiously with the product before nonchalantly (often brazenly) walking out. They know that Safeway has decided not to hire security who will actively attempt to stop them nor will any cameras be monitored---beyond insurance against slip & fall liabilities.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 21 by ringo, posted 09-08-2019 2:37 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 23 by Tangle, posted 09-09-2019 4:24 PM Phat has responded
     Message 24 by ringo, posted 09-10-2019 12:07 PM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14734
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 25 of 53 (862690)
    09-10-2019 12:21 PM
    Reply to: Message 24 by ringo
    09-10-2019 12:07 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    I dream of zapping them with a tranquilizer dart!

    Seriously though, I simply hate the justification I would imagine that they have for taking stuff. In my mind, it's personal. Once, one of our employees "caught" some guy in the act...he was leaving with his duffel bag stuffed full. He had dumped the load in the backseat of his car and was coming back in...empty bag in tow. When confronted, the man replied indignantly, "You are not God. What gives *you* the right to judge me?" Of course, the employee was only sitting outside on break...but this man had been spotted numerous times by many. Our own security warns us, though...that these people can sue the store for harassment if confronted. Nobody actually is allowed to stop them.

    I think its unfair to the max. I pray for God to correct this unfairness in society.

    My motto is this: If I can't get something free, then nobody else should get it either. Stealing is not only unbiblical...it breaks the unwritten rules. Its like cutting in the lunch line.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 24 by ringo, posted 09-10-2019 12:07 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 26 by ringo, posted 09-10-2019 12:25 PM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14734
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 27 of 53 (862692)
    09-10-2019 12:32 PM
    Reply to: Message 23 by Tangle
    09-09-2019 4:24 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    Tangle writes:

    They're almost always drug addicts aren't they?

    Many of the worst ones are...but shoplifters can literally be anybody. There is no certain stereotype. One clue, however, is large bags or purses being carried into the store. This is how they are able to get us for such large amounts. It frustrates all of we employees, however...as we see money lost out the door as impacting our own hours.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 23 by Tangle, posted 09-09-2019 4:24 PM Tangle has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 34 by dwise1, posted 09-11-2019 3:05 AM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14734
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 28 of 53 (862693)
    09-10-2019 12:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 26 by ringo
    09-10-2019 12:25 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    ...So is making people so poor that they feel they have to steal.
    Now don't turn this into some rallying cry of justification by the liberals. Thou shalt not steal. Love thy neighbor, don't demand stuff from him.

    They see my employer as a nameless faceless corporation and thus feel no remorse evening the social odds...whereas I and many other employees see it as ultimately taking from us. I will give spare change but I'll be damned if someone tries to pick my pocket.

    Maybe the priority of the lunch line should be based on who's the hungriest.
    Distribution should always be willingly...never mandatorily. I realize that this is a social and political issue and I can empathize with the other side....I feel more akin to the business owners than to the homeless though God is changing my heart in this issue. Would you help some man who you just caught climbing out of your window with an armful of your stuff?

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 26 by ringo, posted 09-10-2019 12:25 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 29 by ringo, posted 09-10-2019 12:56 PM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14734
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 33 of 53 (862709)
    09-11-2019 3:03 AM
    Reply to: Message 29 by ringo
    09-10-2019 12:56 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    ringo writes:

    According to Jesus, it's mandatory for you to be willing.

    keep in mind that while on the clock, I represent my employer and not myself. The other night an older homeless man came in, bought some item that was under ten dollars, and attempted to use a credit card. The card was declined, and I kept telling him not to enter it asking for cashback because it was getting denied. My intent was to get him to simply pay credit for the item without cashback. Only later as I was praying about things did the incident return to my consciousness, and I heard what I believe to be Gods's voice tell me that he(the man) didn't have any money but that he was trying to appear honorable rather than simply stealing and leaving the store. I felt convicted because every day I pray for Gods Spirit to protect us at work and to bless every person who enters the premises. As a Christian, I feel that praying for one's job is basically expected and automatic.
    ringo writes:

    Ask and ye shall receive.

    I seriously doubt that God is telling these people that it's ok to steal. What would you do if you worked at such a place? I can't very well hand out spare change while I am on the clock since all of the spare change belongs to Safeway unless we are on break or lunch.

    One time many years ago, the other major grocery chain in town, King Soopers, had a deal in their deli known as 10 cent hotdogs. Soon, the homeless were lining up for this benefit, but the company ultimately ceased the promotion because they didn't want long lines of hungry homeless people interfering with their business. Jesus may well want us all to be willing to give, but when on the clock, we render unto Caesar(Safeway) what is Caesars and to God (and others) what is Gods. Word gets around on the street, and if I were too generous people would soon flock to my register and count on me just like they did years ago with the ten cent hotdogs.

    What does this tell us?
    1) Render unto Caesar what is Caesars and unto God what is God's.
    2) The poor you(we) shall always have with us. And I need to think about my duties at work, which includes watching the product and not wasting it.
    3) It's not my store.

    God has given me a good job to help me pay my rent and expenses as I get older. I can't really count on social security nor any pension, so I am approaching crunchtime as to my remaining working years.

    As I watch the reality of how hard it is to survive on the streets, I realize that these people are not nameless nor faceless. I help some of them when I am driving ti work or if I see them outside on the street. (Now that I no longer gamble I have spare change just like you do) I won't chase or intimidate shoplifters, but I also won't turn a blind eye towards them. I owe Caesar that much.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 29 by ringo, posted 09-10-2019 12:56 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 37 by ringo, posted 09-11-2019 3:33 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
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