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Author Topic:   2019 Labor Pains
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5805
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 31 of 53 (862707)
09-11-2019 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by ringo
09-10-2019 12:25 PM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
So is making people so poor that they feel they have to steal.

Theft isn't synonymous with poverty. People steal shit because they don't care about you, society, or even themselves. And it denigrates the hardworking but impoverished people to think that they'd stoop to thievery. There's one social demographic that I see who fairly consistently refuses to steal or beg, despite their lower economic status and that is Mexican-Americans. They'd rather work their fingers to the bone to provide for their family than dishonor themselves and their family by stealing from others or rattling a tin cup with a hand that is perfectly capable of an honest day's work.

Its also pure nonsense that thieves steal because they're hungry... go to any store in America or Canada and see what kind of haul they usually get. Hint: Not bread, not formula for their starving infant. Its shit like cosmetic products.

Maybe the priority of the lunch line should be based on who's the hungriest.

... bless your bleeding heart, Karl. Nah, maybe the priority should be first come, first serve. The skinny, tweaked out meth head has too much meth in his system to be bothered to eat. He's interested in stealing something he can trade in exchange to feed his unending addiction. But, hey, to each according to their want, am I right?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by ringo, posted 09-10-2019 12:25 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by dwise1, posted 09-11-2019 2:57 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 09-11-2019 3:18 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3712
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 32 of 53 (862708)
09-11-2019 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Hyroglyphx
09-11-2019 1:23 AM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
There's one social demographic that I see who fairly consistently refuses to steal or beg, despite their lower economic status and that is Mexican-Americans. They'd rather work their fingers to the bone to provide for their family than dishonor themselves and their family by stealing from others or rattling a tin cup with a hand that is perfectly capable of an honest day's work.

I used to be Mexican until they kicked me out (married into a Mexican-American family but then she divorced me). We traveled to Mexico City a few times to visit family as well as around that area. We did have to watch out for theft (as warned by my in-laws) and we did see many beggars as well, so they both exist within the culture.

I also repeatedly and consistently see the hardest working people both in Mexico and in the USA, though some of their kids have grown up with bad USA attitudes instead of good Mexican attitudes.

Trump has it completely wrong (so what else is new?). Mexico is sending us some of their best hardest working people.

Some months ago in discussing what immigrants (especially the illegals) actually contribute to tax revenues, I mentioned the A-TEAM, "Athletes in Temporary Employment as Agricultural Manpower", from 1964: see W. Willard Wirtz, the Labor Secretary who came up with that ill-begotten idea, also the NPR report which is more informative and an interesting read. The Bracero Program which formalized the importing of guest agricultural workers from 1942 to its termination in 1964.

Wirtz came up with the "brilliant" idea of recruiting high school athletes to replace the migrant workers. The first snag came from their coaches who didn't let their players sign up because they would miss summer training. Still, many high-schoolers did sign up. They didn't last long on the job. Besides the work and working conditions being too hard for them, the living conditions were beyond substandard. Many went AWOL after a few days and some camps went on strike. There truly is work that Americans refuse to do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2019 1:23 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12813
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 33 of 53 (862709)
09-11-2019 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by ringo
09-10-2019 12:56 PM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
ringo writes:

According to Jesus, it's mandatory for you to be willing.

keep in mind that while on the clock, I represent my employer and not myself. The other night an older homeless man came in, bought some item that was under ten dollars, and attempted to use a credit card. The card was declined, and I kept telling him not to enter it asking for cashback because it was getting denied. My intent was to get him to simply pay credit for the item without cashback. Only later as I was praying about things did the incident return to my consciousness, and I heard what I believe to be Gods's voice tell me that he(the man) didn't have any money but that he was trying to appear honorable rather than simply stealing and leaving the store. I felt convicted because every day I pray for Gods Spirit to protect us at work and to bless every person who enters the premises. As a Christian, I feel that praying for one's job is basically expected and automatic.
ringo writes:

Ask and ye shall receive.

I seriously doubt that God is telling these people that it's ok to steal. What would you do if you worked at such a place? I can't very well hand out spare change while I am on the clock since all of the spare change belongs to Safeway unless we are on break or lunch.

One time many years ago, the other major grocery chain in town, King Soopers, had a deal in their deli known as 10 cent hotdogs. Soon, the homeless were lining up for this benefit, but the company ultimately ceased the promotion because they didn't want long lines of hungry homeless people interfering with their business. Jesus may well want us all to be willing to give, but when on the clock, we render unto Caesar(Safeway) what is Caesars and to God (and others) what is Gods. Word gets around on the street, and if I were too generous people would soon flock to my register and count on me just like they did years ago with the ten cent hotdogs.

What does this tell us?
1) Render unto Caesar what is Caesars and unto God what is God's.
2) The poor you(we) shall always have with us. And I need to think about my duties at work, which includes watching the product and not wasting it.
3) It's not my store.

God has given me a good job to help me pay my rent and expenses as I get older. I can't really count on social security nor any pension, so I am approaching crunchtime as to my remaining working years.

As I watch the reality of how hard it is to survive on the streets, I realize that these people are not nameless nor faceless. I help some of them when I am driving ti work or if I see them outside on the street. (Now that I no longer gamble I have spare change just like you do) I won't chase or intimidate shoplifters, but I also won't turn a blind eye towards them. I owe Caesar that much.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 09-10-2019 12:56 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 09-11-2019 3:33 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3712
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 34 of 53 (862710)
09-11-2019 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Thugpreacha
09-10-2019 12:32 PM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
One clue, however, is large bags or purses being carried into the store.

Sometimes I need to enter a store carrying a bag of something I bought from another store. Before I enter the second store, I tie the bag shut (think old-style plastic bags) to make it obvious that I could not simply drop something into it.

Basically, I try to practice an old Chinese saying told to me by a Chinese co-worker (authentic Chinese, because he always drank the evilest smelling tea): "Never tie your shoes in a melon patch."

Do you get it yet? You're in the middle of somebody else's melon patch and you bend over and reach down to the ground to tie your shoes. What does that look like to somebody watching you? Like you're trying to steal a melon. So the real lesson is to avoid any possible appearance of doing something wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-10-2019 12:32 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12813
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 35 of 53 (862717)
09-11-2019 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by dwise1
09-11-2019 3:05 AM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
dwise1 writes:

Sometimes I need to enter a store carrying a bag of something I bought from another store. Before I enter the second store, I tie the bag shut (think old-style plastic bags) to make it obvious that I could not simply drop something into it.

And this is what many people also do. Though we all "observe" them surreptitiously we (at least I) don't infer that they are shoplifters simply because they "look the part". It has been an experience in human nature training for me. Time after time, I see men with bulging backpacks and women with bulging purses exit the store, often hurriedly, without purchasing anything. Nothing unusual in and of itself....these days many people have backpacks...and large bulging purses on their person. It is an area of town near the central thoroughfare that used to be the old 40 highway...business loop 70, now known as Colfax. There is a substantial number of homeless people in the area and some of them carry literally everything that they own to their name. There are several times when a situation becomes "obvious", however. As Hyroglyphix suggests, most of these people congregate in the Health & Beauty section of the store and look to buy something there...often spending a fair amount of time browsing yet leaving the store without checking out...indicating that they either couldn't find what they wanted or....(not accusingly) that they *did*. I prayed about it. Every day before work, I say a prayer on the way to work thanking God for another day at my job, asking to allow His Spirit to help me fulfill my purpose and destiny in life, and that our store (and our lives...you never know in this age of mass shootings) be protected by His presence. For many months, I prayed more leaning towards protecting us, our jobs, and "our" store. Lately, I have been praying more towards having greater empathy for the struggling people on the streets and found throughout life in general. I always prayed (and pray) that our store is filled with the presence of God, however. So what happened? Was my prayer in any way answered? Get this: What began to happen was that people did not steal any less...we saw the same activity and the inventory shrink reports approached the $1000.00-$2000.00 a day range, but I began to notice that shoplifters were becoming more honest about the fact that they stole. They confessed to us in a way, a if to say "hey look, i'm hungry..or I have a habit...an addiction...or I need to feed my kids and this is the only option I have." God impressed upon my heart that I was no better than they were and that everyone sins...we all fall short in some way and none of us are righteous...any more than anyone else. He basically told me to quit suspecting them and to watch them less and love them more. Critics will say that it was not God (Because God does not exist,of course ) but that my own conscience was convicting me. I won't attempt to defend the point...all I know is that I got my job back in late 2016 after 5 months of layoff and at that time I prayed for that. I need that job as much as any homeless person needs food and shelter. Had I been forced to find another job, (which at the time I looked for) I would have taken a $4.00 an hour paycut. Conclusion?
  • I believe that God is in control of every situation.
  • Judge not lest I myself be judged. None of us are any better (or worse) than anyone else in general. It may be true that we see an occasional Hitler, or Pol Pot, or for some, a Donald Trump...but one must ask themselves if God picks and chooses whom to judge and sentence and has favorites or whether God allows Himself to become a Deity of Faith rather than Evidence and simply makes it so that we humans become the decisions that we make and in effect sentence ourselves?

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 34 by dwise1, posted 09-11-2019 3:05 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 17300
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.5


    (1)
    Message 36 of 53 (862726)
    09-11-2019 3:18 PM
    Reply to: Message 31 by Hyroglyphx
    09-11-2019 1:23 AM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    Hyroglyphx writes:

    Theft isn't synonymous with poverty.


    I didn't say it is. But there is a correlation between poverty and crime.

    Hyroglyphx writes:

    ... go to any store in America or Canada and see what kind of haul they usually get. Hint: Not bread, not formula for their starving infant.


    The workers don't get paid in food either.

    Hyroglyphx writes:

    ...maybe the priority should be first come, first serve.


    Grab all you can? Yeah, that was how it worked until we invented the rule of law.

    Hyroglyphx writes:

    But, hey, to each according to their want, am I right?


    No, you're wrong. It's to each according to his need. A society that can't provide for the needs of its most needy is a worthless society.

    “Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
    -- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 31 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2019 1:23 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 38 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2019 6:09 PM ringo has responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 17300
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.5


    (1)
    Message 37 of 53 (862727)
    09-11-2019 3:33 PM
    Reply to: Message 33 by Thugpreacha
    09-11-2019 3:03 AM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    Phat writes:

    keep in mind that while on the clock, I represent my employer and not myself.


    And yet your attitude toward theft is harsher than your employer's.

    Phat writes:

    I seriously doubt that God is telling these people that it's ok to steal.


    Nobody is saying it's okay to steal. I was replying to your, "Love thy neighbor, don't demand stuff from him." (Message 28) I'm saying if he asks, you should give.

    Phat writes:

    I can't very well hand out spare change while I am on the clock since all of the spare change belongs to Safeway unless we are on break or lunch.


    Nobody's asking you to hand out Safeway's spare change, just your own. And while you're on the clock, you could try just being a little compassionate instead of vindictive.

    Phat writes:

    when on the clock, we render unto Caesar(Safeway) what is Caesars and to God (and others) what is Gods.


    Yes, you render unto Safeway what belongs to Safeway but what does Safeway render unto you and its customers and the community that supports it?

    Phat writes:

    The poor you(we) shall always have with us.


    As I've told you before, that is not an excuse for ignoring the poor. If anything, it's an indictment of our society.

    “Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
    -- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 33 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-11-2019 3:03 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
    Hyroglyphx
    Member
    Posts: 5805
    From: Austin, TX
    Joined: 05-03-2006
    Member Rating: 2.2


    Message 38 of 53 (862731)
    09-11-2019 6:09 PM
    Reply to: Message 36 by ringo
    09-11-2019 3:18 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    I didn't say it is. But there is a correlation between poverty and crime.

    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

    The workers don't get paid in food either.

    Meaning?

    Grab all you can? Yeah, that was how it worked until we invented the rule of law.

    You insinuated that people grab all they can because of this terrible system of oppression that all but forces them to.

    No, you're wrong. It's to each according to his need.

    Yeah, that was an intentional play on words.

    A society that can't provide for the needs of its most needy is a worthless society.

    No, a society that thinks it should be spoon-fed from cradle to grave is a worthless society.

    Edited by Hyroglyphx, : Typo


    "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 36 by ringo, posted 09-11-2019 3:18 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 39 by ringo, posted 09-11-2019 6:49 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

        
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 17300
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.5


    (1)
    Message 39 of 53 (862732)
    09-11-2019 6:49 PM
    Reply to: Message 38 by Hyroglyphx
    09-11-2019 6:09 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    Hyroglyphx writes:

    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?


    The egg. Did you think it was a difficult question?

    Clearly, poverty came before crime. Poverty is a natural form of population control in most species. Crime, on the other hand, is strictly a social construct. Who "owns" what is arbitrary.

    Hyroglyphx writes:

    ringo writes:

    The workers don't get paid in food either.


    Meaning?

    What people steal is just a medium of exchange. They don't steal cosmetics because they want cosmetics. They steal what's valuable and portable. They exchange it for what they need, whether that's food or drugs.

    Hyroglyphx writes:

    You insinuated that people grab all they can because of this terrible system of oppression that all but forces them to.


    And you insinuated that the pushing to the front of the line is a good thing.

    Hyroglyphx writes:

    No, a society that thinks it should be spoon-fed from cradle to grave is a worthless society.


    And nobody is advocating any such thing. "Society" includes both those who are fed and those who feed, so your fantasy is meaningless.

    I repeat: A society that can not take care of its weakest members - the children, the sick, the poor, the disabled, the aged, etc. - is worthless.


    “Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
    -- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 38 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2019 6:09 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 40 by jar, posted 09-11-2019 7:20 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
     Message 42 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-12-2019 1:50 PM ringo has responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 31288
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 3.0


    Message 40 of 53 (862733)
    09-11-2019 7:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 39 by ringo
    09-11-2019 6:49 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    ringo writes:

    I repeat: A society that can not take care of its weakest members - the children, the sick, the poor, the disabled, the aged, etc. - is worthless.

    It certainly cannot make any claim or pretense of being Christian.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 39 by ringo, posted 09-11-2019 6:49 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    Replies to this message:
     Message 41 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-12-2019 1:44 PM jar has responded

      
    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 12813
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 41 of 53 (862761)
    09-12-2019 1:44 PM
    Reply to: Message 40 by jar
    09-11-2019 7:20 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    Perhaps our society was thankfully never meant to be Theocratic since humans can never agree, but don't try turning Jesus basic principles into secular humanist feelgood duties. Ever since I figured out that you shared some of the traits of Spinoza, I connected the dots of your Jewish influences with your adamant insistence towards logic, reason, and reality at the expense of traditional dogma.

    Quit asking the question of how do we know its God! God chose us. The fact that you cant objectively quantify this reality in no way diminishes its existence...nor does absence of evidence. Would you like another helping of Word Salad?


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 40 by jar, posted 09-11-2019 7:20 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 43 by jar, posted 09-12-2019 3:08 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 12813
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 42 of 53 (862762)
    09-12-2019 1:50 PM
    Reply to: Message 39 by ringo
    09-11-2019 6:49 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    ringo writes:

    What people steal is just a medium of exchange. They don't steal cosmetics because they want cosmetics. They steal what's valuable and portable. They exchange it for what they need, whether that's food or drugs.

    And the fact remains that they are breaking a consensual rule, whether they can justify breaking it or not.

    Don't think for a minute that they steal with Gods blessing.

    I repeat: A society that can not take care of its weakest members - the children, the sick, the poor, the disabled, the aged, etc. - is worthless.
    And that should be on the individual conscience...never only mandated by the government. If government is to mandate societal giving, they need to also mandate punishment for theft of any kind. People can't just go around making up their own rules.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 39 by ringo, posted 09-11-2019 6:49 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 44 by jar, posted 09-12-2019 3:13 PM Thugpreacha has responded
     Message 47 by ringo, posted 09-13-2019 11:45 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 31288
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 3.0


    Message 43 of 53 (862765)
    09-12-2019 3:08 PM
    Reply to: Message 41 by Thugpreacha
    09-12-2019 1:44 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    Phat writes:

    Quit asking the question of how do we know its God!

    Why?

    Phat writes:

    God chose us.

    And the evidence for that is...?

    Phat, I have never turned Jesus basic principles into anything. Rather I simply point to the record of what Jesus is alleged to have said rather than market the carny spiel of the Snake Oil Salesmen.

    Why do you ignore logic, reason and reality to embrace the traditional dogma?


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 41 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-12-2019 1:44 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 31288
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 3.0


    Message 44 of 53 (862766)
    09-12-2019 3:13 PM
    Reply to: Message 42 by Thugpreacha
    09-12-2019 1:50 PM


    Who is "the Government"
    Maybe you remember "It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

    We are the Government Phat, Congress and the President and the Supreme Court are simply our representatives.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 42 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-12-2019 1:50 PM Thugpreacha has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 45 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-12-2019 5:10 PM jar has responded

      
    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 12813
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 45 of 53 (862773)
    09-12-2019 5:10 PM
    Reply to: Message 44 by jar
    09-12-2019 3:13 PM


    Re: Who is "the Government"
    jar writes:

    We are the Government Phat, Congress and the President and the Supreme Court are simply our representatives.

    I knew that, of course. I am mainly addressing ringo, who thinks that there is no god and thus secular government(note he is an atheist) in its purest form should do Gods work---no god needed. That type of thinking is too far Left for me. I recently read the preview of a book, Dark Agenda: The War To Destroy Christian America and though I know that it is too far-right-wing authoritarian for me, the author does have some good points...at least in the preview. This whole idea of throwing God away (or at least out of the will of the people whome you claim make up the government is too far Left for me. Im a moderate, and not a secularist either.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 44 by jar, posted 09-12-2019 3:13 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 46 by jar, posted 09-12-2019 7:39 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
     Message 48 by ringo, posted 09-13-2019 11:51 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
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