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Author Topic:   The first Universal Law of the Universe
Tangle
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Posts: 8207
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 14 of 39 (849581)
03-15-2019 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by mike the wiz
03-15-2019 8:28 AM


MtW writes:

can you show me an pre-organic chemistry?

Sure, inorganic chemistry

Inorganic chemistry deals with the synthesis and behavior of inorganic and organometallic compounds. This field covers all chemical compounds except the myriad organic compounds, which are the subjects of organic chemistry. Wikipedia


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by mike the wiz, posted 03-15-2019 8:28 AM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by mike the wiz, posted 03-15-2019 10:13 AM Tangle has responded
 Message 16 by NosyNed, posted 03-15-2019 10:45 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8207
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 17 of 39 (849590)
03-15-2019 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by mike the wiz
03-15-2019 10:13 AM


MtW writes:

This seems like a bit of a bait-and-switch fallacy, you describe inorganic chemistry in the attempt to make it represent "pre-organic" chemistry.

It is what it is Mike, inorganic chemistry. We deal with facts here, not pseudo-philosophical word play.

Parsimoniously we can simply refer to it as inorganic chemistry.

Yes, that's what I did, I referred to it simply as inorganic chemistry.

Yes, I concede inorganic chemistry exists. I concede organic chemistry exists.

Progress of sorts I suppose.

I want to see something inbetween such as the creation of a pre-cell or whatever.

Well you need to define whatever it is you're asking for otherwise you'll get answers you don't like or understand.

Or do you just want me to say, "Yes RAZD, I will accept everything you asserted because you wrote it down."

As it happens, I think RAZD is using 'entanglement' wrongly in trying to apply it to all things. Quantum entanglement is a specific thing and I can't see why it should apply in the macro world.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by mike the wiz, posted 03-15-2019 10:13 AM mike the wiz has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8207
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 18 of 39 (849592)
03-15-2019 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by NosyNed
03-15-2019 10:45 AM


Re: pre biologic chemistry
NosyNed writes:

I am thinking you are both using pre organic to mean pre biologic.

Well I am for sure.

It turns out that MtW is actually looking for a pre-cell. Pre-biological has no meaning to me as far as chemistry goes - it would just be organic chemistry.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by NosyNed, posted 03-15-2019 10:45 AM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8207
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 35 of 39 (850094)
03-31-2019 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by mike the wiz
03-31-2019 8:21 AM


MtW writes:

God created life.

For someone who boasts about his logical thinking, you're extraordinarily bad at it.

None of your arguments lead to this conclusion. It's a terrible non sequiter and it's obvious that you actually stared with this conclusion and generated a pile of words hoping to arrive back at it.

As far as we know everything in our world is natural. We have yet to find any supernatural intervention anywhere we look. Additionally, every time a supernatural claim is tested it fails. The correct hypothesis is therefor that until shown otherwise, life too is a natural process. That's the starting point, that's why science holds abiogenesis as an idea that requires testing.

The science of microbiolgy is very, very young - it began in our lifetime. Almost everything about it is yet to be discovered, just because we are currently ignorant of a process does not allow you to gleefully claim goddidit - that claim has been proven wrong time after time.

No amount of word games - a square wheel? - a deliberate paradox about a monk that we are not allowed to complain about and car chassis that create themselves - will get you anywhere near understanding the problem. When we hack away the verbiage you're simply repeating the creationist mantra that life can not start itself.

Well we've heard that before and we're just going to have to wait and see what science produces.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by mike the wiz, posted 03-31-2019 8:21 AM mike the wiz has not yet responded

  
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