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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 17 of 31 (851296)
04-22-2019 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tangle
04-22-2019 9:15 AM


Re: The Rant That Faith Will Not Like
I know that this is the traditional approach but it's really dumb. Faith's beliefs are stupid, superstitious, ignorant and wrong. If she keeps them to herself fine, if she starts pontificating about them they need to be ridiculed not respected.

I strongly agree. I have a friend that thinks all beliefs have equal validity, which is the same as saying all beliefs deserve respect. This is wrong and part of what has caused our society to be in crisis as it is now. Because media has for years treated all sides of a subject as having equal validity, we now have climate deniers in charge of the US government. Because of bothsiderism we now have children dying of easily preventable diseases.
Should the beliefs of pedophiles and white supremacists be respected? Faith believes that homosexuality and atheism are crimes against her god. Does she just believe people she thinks are immoral should go to jail or does their blasphemy deserve the death penalty. Her beliefs deserve no respect. They should be ridiculed and attacked any time she or anyone like her espouses them. Logical conclusion of her beliefs are the torture and death of me, my family and my friends. Fuck her beliefs. I will step on them, fight them and ridicule them any time I can. This is not just a battle for our rights. The battle against religious extremism is a battle for our lives.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Tangle, posted 04-22-2019 9:15 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 10:02 AM Theodoric has responded

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


(1)
Message 24 of 31 (851307)
04-22-2019 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Stile
04-22-2019 10:02 AM


Re: The Rant That Faith Will Not Like
The larger part is not disrespecting/judging/punishing the negative actions grown from such beliefs.

And I think the only way to stop the actions is to combat the beliefs.
I don't see that. Neither in respected media or extreme media.

Good for you, but seems to be willful ignorance to me.
http://www.brownpoliticalreview.org/...climate-change-debate
We don't have climate deniers in charge of the US government because the media treated all sides of a subject as having equal validity, we have climate deniers in charge of the US government because we didn't judge/condemn/punish the negative actions of those who believed such ideas.

Because the American people were not presented with the data in an objective manner. The evidence was manipulated by media presentation.
Discussions on the ideas? Absolutely. How else can you teach it's wrong if you don't respectfully discuss the ideas?
The actions? Absolutely not.

You are building a strawman. Please debate what I actual wrote not what you want to attack.
I said nothing about discussing the idea. I asked if the beliefs of pedophiles and white supremacists were deserving of respect. Do you think they are?
Then don't respect them. But you should, still, respect her (as long as she simply holds/discusses such believes.)

Disagree. I do not think a person that feels I am not entitled to the same rights and freedoms as they are is deserving of my respect. I have a brother that thinks I should not have the right to vote because I am not a christian. I have no respect for him. I am a firm believer that respect is earned and not freely given and I am a firm believer that words have meaning and power. Words are actions.
Espouses? What's wrong with you?
People need to be able to "espouse" whatever they want, whenever they need to.

What is wrong with you? Do not attack me. If you disagree, disagree without making it personal. You need to step down from your high moral horse. People can espouse whatever they want. Words are actions. When they espouse hate they need to be called out and ridiculed. I in no way stated people should not be able to espouse there beliefs. Just that there are consequences.
Have you never read a history book?

My training is in History, So yes. Are you voicing the meaningless pithy line of those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it? The line actually means nothing.
Until people realize the ridiculousness of preventing speech.

Again with the strawman. People are entitled to say whatever they want. That you make the claim that I think otherwise just shows a lack of understanding or a conscious effort to misrepresent what I actual argued.
Speech is action. Faith should feel free to say what she wants but she and her beliefs are not deserving of respect.

Or we could spin the wheel another time, if you prefer.

Strawman again? I thought you were better than that.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 10:02 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 11:20 AM Theodoric has responded
 Message 27 by dwise1, posted 04-22-2019 11:26 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 28 of 31 (851316)
04-22-2019 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Stile
04-22-2019 11:20 AM


Re: The Rant That Faith Will Not Like
It seems to me that throughout this rigmarole you have a vastly different definition of respect than what I would call normal usage.
But I would assume that you do, indeed, still "respect your brother" in the sense that you do not think you should kill him. Or, say, break his arm.

Seems completely outside of normal usage.
I do not want to imprison, hurt or mark Faith. I think her beliefs and a lot of the things she says are vile. The deserve to be quickly and repeatedly condemned.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 11:20 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

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