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Author Topic:   What would a transitional fossil look like?
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 23 of 403 (850333)
04-06-2019 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
04-06-2019 10:31 AM


Re: comic relief
so drastic that it is really impossible.

You misspelled "due to the mechanisms of evolution".

You obviously know nothing about the magnitude of genetic changes. Almost all of them are teeny and weeny.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 04-06-2019 10:31 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Faith, posted 04-06-2019 3:22 PM JonF has replied
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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 33 of 403 (850346)
04-06-2019 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Faith
04-06-2019 3:22 PM


Re: comic relief
Yep, it took millions and billions of years because the changes are teeny and weeny.

Any changes that didn't result in a viable creature didn't get passed on A small percentage of them accumulated to produce "coherent new creatures". If you want to argue otherwise, show your math. Your argument from ignorance is irrelevant.


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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 35 of 403 (850348)
04-06-2019 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
04-06-2019 3:30 PM


Re: comic relief
millions of trials and errors then before any of it amounts to anything coherent at all

A few hundred thousand years is enough for significant changes.

And there is in fact no reason at that level of probability why anything coherent would ever emerge.

Show your calculations.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 126 of 403 (850727)
04-13-2019 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Faith
04-13-2019 12:37 PM


Re: Comparisons by Faith, the fun continues
Differences in size, length etc., don't matter in my frame of reference which I would think would be obvious from the fact that I was clearly referring to ALL dog breeds. The basic shape is the same.

And the same as cats.

Plus, humans and chimps are the same by your criteria.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


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 Message 123 by Faith, posted 04-13-2019 12:37 PM Faith has replied

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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 129 of 403 (850731)
04-13-2019 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
04-13-2019 2:48 PM


Re: Comparisons by Faith, the fun continues
They are far more similar than dogs and cats. Your ignorant description of your fantasy notwithstanding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 04-13-2019 2:48 PM Faith has replied

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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 131 of 403 (850733)
04-13-2019 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Faith
04-13-2019 2:51 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
Yeah, it's easy to find people as ignorant as you that will cheer you on. But here you are.

No, that's not at all what you said scientists would agree with.

You actually said this

All the changes are superficial, not much of a record for the ToE which should produce far more dramatic changes if species-to-species evolution were actually true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 04-13-2019 2:51 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 04-13-2019 3:03 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 133 of 403 (850735)
04-13-2019 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Faith
04-13-2019 2:59 PM


Re: Comparisons by Faith, the fun continues
Just like your bald assertion that the differnces are great.

But mine is true

quote:
According to [Kevin Hunt, director of the Human Origins and Primate Evolution Lab at Indiana University], if you shave a chimp and take a photo of its body from the neck to the waist, "at first glance you wouldn't really notice that it isn't human."

https://www.livescience.com/15297-chimps-humans.html


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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 134 of 403 (850736)
04-13-2019 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Faith
04-13-2019 3:03 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
[qqs]and if the ToE were true the structure would change too.[/qs]
Not necessarily, especially if the environment didn't change much.

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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 170 of 403 (850798)
04-14-2019 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Faith
04-14-2019 1:54 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
Differences in size, length etc., don't matter in my frame of reference which I would think would be obvious from the fact that I was clearly referring to ALL dog breeds. The basic shape is the same.

Except they matter when comparing chimps and humans.

Differences in size, length etc., don't matter in my frame of reference which I would think would be obvious from the fact that I was clearly referring to ALL dog breeds. The basic shape is the same as

Make up your mind.

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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 171 of 403 (850799)
04-14-2019 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Faith
04-14-2019 1:59 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
You simply refuse to get the whole picture.

Oh, we get it. You can't stand being kin to no ape, so you have to deny the blindingly obvious.

All you and everybody else is doing is refusing to consider a different way of putting the facts together out of sheer prejudice in favor of the ToE.

We are prejudiced in favor of facts.

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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(5)
Message 212 of 403 (850882)
04-16-2019 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Faith
04-15-2019 2:28 PM


The bodies I have in mind are identical, not merely similar, except that they may vary in proportions: size and length and that sort of thing.

For example chimps and humans. Identical, not merely similar, except varying in proportions: size and length and that sort of thing.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 213 of 403 (850883)
04-16-2019 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Faith
04-15-2019 3:56 PM


Claws aren't structural.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 260 of 403 (851020)
04-18-2019 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by mike the wiz
04-18-2019 12:28 PM


It's apparent neither you nor your reference's author know what a nested hierarchy is. A cladogram is not one, and does not show the relationships embodied in a nested hierarchy.

A nested hierarchy can be defined as a grouping in which all subsets are completely contained within "parent" sets.

Many creationists have tried to make a nested hierarchy of vehicles of various sorts. All have failed. Once you try to jam vehicles into a nested hierarchy of any noticeable size, you quickly find examples that don't fit. That's because vehicles (and pretty much any group of man-made objects) transfer features between groups constantly. Somebody invents a hydraulic disk brake on one model of car. Soon they're on trucks and all sorts of wheeled vehicles. Now they're on my son's high-end bicycle (and they're infinitely better than rim brakes).

For example, Michael Denton in his first book:

See the problem? Can you fix it? Could you then show where the V-22 Osprey, a Diesel submarine, and an AAV-P7/A1 Assault Amphibious Vehicle would fit?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by mike the wiz, posted 04-18-2019 12:28 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by mike the wiz, posted 04-18-2019 2:27 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 278 of 403 (851046)
04-18-2019 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by mike the wiz
04-18-2019 2:27 PM


It's amusing when people say, "you don't understand this" then state some simple things I do understand

Can you show where these homoplasies would fit?

Thanks for confirming my claim. They don't fit in Denton's hierarchy, that's the point. Just as his hierarchy isn't nested because the subset "diesel" is not completely contained within one parent set. I've seen dozens of creationists try to shuffle and rename items to find any more than a trivial nested hierarchy of vehicles. And I briefly explained why they can't do it. Thus I predict the next one will also fail

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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 280 of 403 (851049)
04-18-2019 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by mike the wiz
04-18-2019 2:27 PM


Duplicate .

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


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