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Author Topic:   What would a transitional fossil look like?
edge
Member
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 331 of 403 (851233)
04-21-2019 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 317 by Faith
04-20-2019 11:57 PM


You would do well to dispense with the snark.

You would do well to dispense with the stubborn denial and unsupported assertions.

I am not constrained by the ToE and that was the point as you well know.

I understand that you are constrained by myth and your own personal pride.

And if I see a trilobite that has a different body plan I most certainly will rethink it.

Utter nonsense. You will not see a different body plan for trilobites and if you did, your blind denial will reject any such information.

And why should a different species have a different body plan?

I have nothing against the idea of there being another species that is similar but not a trilobite.

No body does. This is a meaningless statement.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 11:57 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:23 PM edge has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 332 of 403 (851241)
04-21-2019 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by edge
04-21-2019 10:23 AM


When people don't even try to communicate sensibly, which means you, the whole idea of debate is trashed.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by edge, posted 04-21-2019 10:23 AM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by edge, posted 04-21-2019 12:52 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
edge
Member
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 333 of 403 (851245)
04-21-2019 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by Faith
04-21-2019 12:23 PM


When people don't even try to communicate sensibly, which means you, the whole idea of debate is trashed.

Your opinion is noted.

However, all I see in your post is an effort to end communication.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:23 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20111
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 334 of 403 (851247)
04-21-2019 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 321 by Faith
04-21-2019 12:17 AM


It makes the trilobite one Kind ??? Lolling on the floor
It makes the trilobite one Kind ...

This is your main impetus: to create a fictional "kind" that appears nowhere in the bible (or other religious documents), for the sole purpose of making a frivolous line of argument based purely on your ego and your insistence on keeping each "kind" crammed into one "species" ... which in your usage bears no relationship to the scientific biological definitions of species.

The fact that the same criteria you use to force this argument can be applied with equal validity to other families of plants, animals, and other organisms is ignored as bias.

Keep the comedy rolling.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:17 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:51 PM RAZD has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 335 of 403 (851251)
04-21-2019 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by RAZD
04-21-2019 1:26 PM


Re: It makes the trilobite one Kind ??? Lolling on the floor
Yes, one species or one Kind, that's how I see all those trilobites climbing up the fossil record for the supposed hundreds of millions of years represented there, and it is the sameness of their body structure that enables me to classify them that way. And where did I call it bias to classify other creatures the same way: I thought I've been pretty clear that the Kind or species is identified by the body structure. It may take some discussion to define it but that's the basic criterion.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by RAZD, posted 04-21-2019 1:26 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by PaulK, posted 04-21-2019 1:57 PM Faith has responded
 Message 339 by JonF, posted 04-21-2019 2:11 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 341 by Tangle, posted 04-21-2019 2:14 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 342 by RAZD, posted 04-21-2019 2:27 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
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Posts: 15370
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 336 of 403 (851254)
04-21-2019 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Faith
04-21-2019 1:51 PM


Re: It makes the trilobite one Kind ??? Lolling on the floor
quote:

Yes, one species or one Kind, that's how I see all those trilobites climbing up the fossil record for the supposed hundreds of millions of years represented there, and it is the sameness of their body structure that enables me to classify them that way

No it isn’t. It’s your inability to accept the fact that you are obviously wrong. As I pointed out wild species do not show anything like the range of variation seen in trilobites. It is obvious that trilobites are not a single species. Even to you if you bother to look.

quote:

And where did I call it bias to classify other creatures the same way:

I can guess. But what is your reason for refusing to classify other creatures the same way ? Why the glaring, obvious double standard ? And how can you possibly expect to get away with it ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:51 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 337 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:59 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 337 of 403 (851255)
04-21-2019 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by PaulK
04-21-2019 1:57 PM


Re: It makes the trilobite one Kind ??? Lolling on the floor
You aren't making any sense, sorry.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by PaulK, posted 04-21-2019 1:57 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 340 by PaulK, posted 04-21-2019 2:11 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6551
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 338 of 403 (851259)
04-21-2019 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by Faith
04-21-2019 1:59 PM


Re: It makes the trilobite one Kind ??? Lolling on the floor
And again, no actual reply, just trolling.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:59 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
JonF
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Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 339 of 403 (851260)
04-21-2019 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Faith
04-21-2019 1:51 PM


Re: It makes the trilobite one Kind ??? Lolling on the floor
I thought I've been pretty clear that the Kind or species is identified by the body structure. It may take some discussion to define it but that's the basic criterion.

So humans and chimps are the same kind. Glad you cleared that up.

(Remember you said length and size of bones doesn't matter).

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:51 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
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Posts: 15370
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 340 of 403 (851261)
04-21-2019 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by Faith
04-21-2019 1:59 PM


Re: It makes the trilobite one Kind ??? Lolling on the floor
Of course you have trouble with facts that contradict your fantasies.

Let me put them more simply.

First, trilobites

1) trilobites vary considerably.

2) species in the wild do not vary to anything like the same extent.

3) therefore trilobites are obviously not a single species

Second your “kind” criterion:

1) you do not apply it to any other “kind”

2) in recent discussion you were quite happy to accept minor differences as distinguishing “Kinds” e.g. cats having sharper claws than dogs - while rejecting bigger differences between trilobites.

3) the double standard is so glaringly obvious that you can’t expect anyone to believe you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:59 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7067
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 341 of 403 (851263)
04-21-2019 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Faith
04-21-2019 1:51 PM


Re: It makes the trilobite one Kind ??? Lolling on the floor
Faith writes:

Yes, one species or one Kind, that's how I see all those trilobites climbing up the fossil record for the supposed hundreds of millions of years represented there,

You've never seen a trilobite let alone classified one. You haven't the first idea what is involved in classifying a fossil - not the faintest idea how long it takes to learn how to do that kind of work.

and it is the sameness of their body structure that enables me to classify them that way.

Science has classified 50,000 trilobite species. They are not the same and they show development over time.

You can call them kinds or carrots or Ford Transits if you like, it has no effect on what they are and you are adding no new information - except perhaps humour.

It may take some discussion to define it but that's the basic criterion.

The discussion and effort has been taken. It's done. It took many years of painstaking work by many people. A religiously motivated woman looking blindly and uncomprehendingly at a computer screen is not going to add much to the work - except, as I say, humour.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:51 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20111
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 342 of 403 (851265)
04-21-2019 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Faith
04-21-2019 1:51 PM


Re: It makes the trilobite one Kind ??? Lolling on the floor
Yes, one species or one Kind, that's how I see all those trilobites climbing up the fossil record for the supposed hundreds of millions of years represented there, and it is the sameness of their body structure that enables me to classify them that way. And where did I call it bias to classify other creatures the same way:

The problem you have is that you refuse and ignore classifying other creatures the same way:

... the Kind or species is identified by the body structure. ...

Then dogs and cats are a "Kind or species (faith usage)" and chimps and humans a "Kind or species (faith usage)" ... where "species (faith usage)" means some original fantasy "species genome" and NOT species as used in biology, science, reality.

So funny to watch you wiggle around the actual evidence.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:51 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 3:50 PM RAZD has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2310
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 7.0


(1)
Message 343 of 403 (851266)
04-21-2019 3:39 PM


Trilobites? What is the motive?
So far, Faith has only made one factual statement about Trilobites, "Trilobites have a body plan." She has not given us any other information that indicates she has any further knowledge about Trilobites.

Tangle Message 341

quote:
A religiously motivated woman looking blindly and uncomprehendingly at a computer screen is not going to add much to the work - except, as I say, humour.

RAZD Message 342

quote:
So funny to watch you wiggle around the actual evidence.

I just do not understand what motivates her to come here and post things that seem more and more unhinged and that even a child would see do not correctly describe the evidence.

She says she hates this place and all of us who disagree with her about almost everything, yet she stays. Is it some form of self imposed penance or is she the martyr character in her own fantasies?

I agree there is a humor element, but I don't think that is her intent. I guess it must be entertaining for her, but I don't think I will ever understand it.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by Theodoric, posted 04-21-2019 4:17 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6551
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 344 of 403 (851267)
04-21-2019 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by Tanypteryx
04-21-2019 3:39 PM


Re: Trilobites? What is the motive?
I think there is a fairly good possibility that Faith is not all what she seems and is in fact just a very persistent troll. Either that or the true personification of a Poe.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-21-2019 3:39 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-21-2019 4:59 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2310
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 7.0


(1)
Message 345 of 403 (851269)
04-21-2019 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by Theodoric
04-21-2019 4:17 PM


Re: Trilobites? What is the motive?
You are probably correct.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by Theodoric, posted 04-21-2019 4:17 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
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