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Author Topic:   What would a transitional fossil look like?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4502
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 346 of 403 (851271)
04-21-2019 6:56 PM


I don't think so, folks.

I think she is sincerely secure in her religious delusions to the point where reality, apparently any of it, is of no consequence. IMHO, this isn't faked or deliberate falsehood but an actual twisting of reality to fit a delusional perception.

The girl really is actually nuts. Off her rocker.

It's not like she's playing with a short deck. All the cards are there. It's more like she thinks they're dominoes and can't tell the difference. While the world is all playing Canasta she is trying to play Texas 42 with the same cards.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 347 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 9:02 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 348 by ringo, posted 04-22-2019 12:10 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 373 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 4:24 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3838
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 347 of 403 (851287)
04-22-2019 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 346 by AZPaul3
04-21-2019 6:56 PM


AZPaul3 writes:

I think she is sincerely secure in her religious delusions to the point where reality, apparently any of it, is of no consequence. IMHO, this isn't faked or deliberate falsehood but an actual twisting of reality to fit a delusional perception.

Absolutely.

Of course, this characterization isn't unique to Faith either.
Many who follow the path of "prioritizing beliefs" over reality when attempting to identify "truth" lead themselves into this identical corner during their later years.

It's a fascinating group of people who teach us much about how the brain works.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by AZPaul3, posted 04-21-2019 6:56 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17272
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 348 of 403 (851322)
04-22-2019 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by AZPaul3
04-21-2019 6:56 PM


AZPaul3 writes:

While the world is all playing Canasta she is trying to play Texas 42 with the same cards.


The average creationist is playing Texas 42. Faith is playing soccer.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by AZPaul3, posted 04-21-2019 6:56 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 349 of 403 (851329)
04-22-2019 1:17 PM


OK I won't go inactive until I know it's going to stick.

Just couple of general responses: First, my religious beliefs are nothing but the standard orthodox (which simply means "accepted as the truth") historical Protestant Christian theology. There's nothing odd about it, nothing just my own. The Christmas Carols are certainly mainstream Christian theology. And it is not "superstition" as I saw someone here say. Superstition is stuff like imputing power to relics or rituals, or to saints who are merely human, which is something the RCC is known for and the Reformation ended. Protestantism is not superstitious, it is completely based on historical events. Yes some of them supernatural, but that's not superstition if you have any respect for language.

Second, I am here because I genuinely believe I can show, and have, shown, the falseness of the ToE in many ways, yes with evidence, and offered some reasonable creationist alternatives, and that, truly, nobody has answered me effectively. Sometimes I get nothing but some kind of snarky putdown, or somebody saying it all comes from the "myth" I believe which is just an obfuscating lie since I've referred only to actual events in the world. Just to assert that evolution occurs from microevolution times hundreds of repeats is no answer because I've argued that the species genome is naturally limited to the characteristics of the species and to get anything that doesn't belong to that species from that genome is impossible. I've asked how you think that could happen and so far nobody has really come up with a way it could, some kind of genetic change that would even start the process, like getting a human hand from a chimp hand etc. Bunch of stuff said above just dumps too much silliness on me to be answerable. If anyone really thinks I should try to answer it, it could only be done one at a time and really, it doesn't seem worth it anyway. More effort would have to be made to take it out of the realm of mere ridicule and seriously try to understand what I'm trying to say.

And three, yes I sometimes try to defend the conservative point of view in politics, or such events as the movie "Ujplanned." I don't think I do a very good job of this, however.

I will probably have a strong urge to go Inactive when I get whatever answers to this are offered, but I will resist it at least for a while.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by ringo, posted 04-22-2019 1:26 PM Faith has responded
 Message 352 by PaulK, posted 04-22-2019 1:32 PM Faith has responded
 Message 353 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2019 1:33 PM Faith has responded
 Message 360 by dwise1, posted 04-22-2019 2:18 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 362 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 2:59 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17272
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 350 of 403 (851330)
04-22-2019 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Faith
04-22-2019 1:17 PM


Faith writes:

Superstition is stuff like imputing power to relics or rituals...


Wikipedia:
quote:
Superstition is a pejorative term for any belief or practice that is considered irrational[1] or supernatural: for example, if it arises from ignorance, a misunderstanding of science or causality, a positive belief in fate or magic, or fear of that which is unknown. It is commonly applied to beliefs and practices surrounding luck, prophecy, and certain spiritual beings, particularly the belief that future events can be foretold by specific (apparently) unrelated prior events.[2] The word superstition is often used to refer to a religion not practiced by the majority of a given society regardless of whether the prevailing religion contains alleged superstitions.

It's funny when a superstitious person calls somebody else superstitious, kinda like a 300-pounder calling a 400-pounder "fat".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 1:17 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 1:29 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 351 of 403 (851331)
04-22-2019 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by ringo
04-22-2019 1:26 PM


OK, here we go. First you pick on a minor point which distracts from the whole, and then you use Wikipedia of all things to argue with it. Take my understanding of the term as fundamental or forget having a discussion.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by ringo, posted 04-22-2019 1:26 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by ringo, posted 04-22-2019 1:41 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 363 by edge, posted 04-22-2019 3:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
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Posts: 15370
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 352 of 403 (851332)
04-22-2019 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Faith
04-22-2019 1:17 PM


quote:

Second, I am here because I genuinely believe I can show, and have, shown, the falseness of the ToE in many ways, yes with evidence, and offered some reasonable creationist alternatives, and that, truly, nobody has answered me effectively.

That is a long, long way from the truth.

Your recent argument about trilobites, for instance, is simply based on taking the differences between trilobites as insignificant - no matter how big they are - and the differences between dogs and cats as being significant no matter how small they are. That is not a good argument - it’s just an expression of extreme bias.

quote:

Just to assert that evolution occurs from microevolution times hundreds of repeats is no answer because I've argued that the species genome is naturally limited to the characteristics of the species and to get anything that doesn't belong to that species from that genome is impossible.

And we know that you are wrong because antibiotic resistance can appear in clonal populations of bacteria.

quote:

I've asked how you think that could happen and so far nobody has really come up with a way it could, some kind of genetic change that would even start the process, like getting a human hand from a chimp hand etc.

So you’ve asked for huge amounts of detail from non-experts. And is a chimpanzee hand really that different from a human hand ? By the standards you use for trilobites isn’t it the same ?

So let us be fair. You explain how we can get the massive amounts of variation we can see in trilobites - and if we can explain how to get from a chimpanzee hand to a human hand to the same level of detail you will accept that. Good enough ? Or will you demand more from us than you can give ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 1:17 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 1:35 PM PaulK has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6550
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 353 of 403 (851333)
04-22-2019 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Faith
04-22-2019 1:17 PM


Yes some of them supernatural, but that's not superstition if you have any respect for language.

By definition it is.
quote:
Excessively credulous belief in and reverence for the supernatural

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/superstition

What were you saying about respect for language?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 1:17 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 1:37 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 354 of 403 (851334)
04-22-2019 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 352 by PaulK
04-22-2019 1:32 PM


I'm not going to address your usual false statements unless it is clear that yours are going to be the ones to address and a whole pile-on of other crap plus attempts to answer me doesn't just follow and make similar demands. As I said, I "GENUINELY BELIEVE" what I said, and your flatly contradicting that does not deserve a response.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 352 by PaulK, posted 04-22-2019 1:32 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by PaulK, posted 04-22-2019 1:47 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 355 of 403 (851335)
04-22-2019 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Theodoric
04-22-2019 1:33 PM


As I said, take my definition or shut up.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2019 1:33 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by Tangle, posted 04-22-2019 1:51 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 361 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2019 2:34 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 356 of 403 (851336)
04-22-2019 1:41 PM


So the usual is all I'm getting
Very little that deserves a serious response. So bye for now.
    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17272
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 357 of 403 (851337)
04-22-2019 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by Faith
04-22-2019 1:29 PM


Faith writes:

Take my understanding of the term as fundamental or forget having a discussion.


I would never take anything you say as fundamental. I will continue to correct your misunderstanding and/or misrepresentation as I see fit. If anybody flees from discussion it will be you.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 1:29 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15370
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 358 of 403 (851339)
04-22-2019 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by Faith
04-22-2019 1:35 PM


quote:

I'm not going to address your usual false statements...

What false statements ?

quote:

As I said, I "GENUINELY BELIEVE" what I said, and your flatly contradicting that does not deserve a response.

But I did not just flatly contradict your statement, did I ? I pointed out serious problems in your arguments. I could point out more - like your dismissal of the order in the fossil record by flatly asserting that the Flood has to account for it - no matter that the idea makes no sense.

But thanks for showing - yet again - how dismiss serious points against your arguments.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 1:35 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 359 of 403 (851340)
04-22-2019 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by Faith
04-22-2019 1:37 PM


Faith writes:

As I said, take my definition or shut up.

That sums up your position on everything quite perfectly.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 1:37 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3705
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(3)
Message 360 of 403 (851342)
04-22-2019 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Faith
04-22-2019 1:17 PM


First, my religious beliefs are nothing but the standard orthodox ...

So which is it? Greek or Russian?

... historical Protestant Christian theology.

Which is not the least bit ORTHODOX!. Just what the fuck are you talking about? Don't you have any understanding of Christianity at all?

Second, I am here because I genuinely believe I can show, and have, shown, the falseness of the ToE in many ways, yes with evidence, and offered some reasonable creationist alternatives, and that, truly, nobody has answered me effectively.

What? That you have asserted the just removing water from sediments creates rocks? And when I merely suggested to you to talk with actual geologists to answer that stupendously stupid idea your response was a series of emails that continuously escalated into extreme hysteria (not just mere hysteria, but rather extreme hysteria with extremely large fonts of all kinds of different colors -- that kind of hysteria cannot be spontaneous, but rather meticulously planned and thoroughly deliberate).

{typical creationist nonsense}

You have proven nothing whatsoever. All you have tried to do is to change the meanings of terminology in an attempt to redefine reality by redefining words, which only works in theology and weasel-lawyer-weasel-wording. All your efforts are pure bullshit and everybody knows that it's all just bullshit, so who are you deluding besides yourself?

And as for your politics, you have already disgraced that and yourself so many times over. And your latest propaganda film, "Unplanned", has already been exposed as yet another ham-fisted hatchet job.

Just what kind of purpose do you actually think that you serve here?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Faith, posted 04-22-2019 1:17 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
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